PROPOSED ALLIANCE

Evening Post, Volume CIV, Issue 83, 5 October 1922, Page 4

PROPOSED ALLIANCE

POST AND TELEGRAPH OFFICERS

ATTITUDE OF PARLIAMENT

A LONG DAY'S DEBATE.

Most of yesterday's sitting of the House of Eepresentatives was spent discussing the- proposal of', the Post and Telegraph Officers' Association to affiliate with the Alliance of Labour. There have been two petitions to Parliament on the subject, ■ one asking for the removal of the Postmaster-General's embargo on the affiliation, and the other asking that tho embargo be sustained. The Committee, which considered the petitions) recommended that they be referred to the Government for consideration, but the Labour Party moved as an amendment that the reports be referred back for further consideration. On a division the amendment was defeated by 53 votes to 11.

Sir John Luke (Wellington North), continuing the debate from the previous day, urged the House to remember, what was, behind the proposed affiliation. He had never known Parliament to be slack in dealing with the claims of the Public servants. It had been stated 'that the Postal officers were within their legal rights in linking up with the Alliance of Labour, but legal rights should not be considered alone.' Many other important factors must be taken into consideration. He felt sure that affiliation would be against the interests of the country. They could not hide the fact that the purpose was to strengthen the P. and T. Association so as to use greater force to obtain from the Government what was wanted. He emphasised the danger of Sovietism, and said he could not understand why the railway servants were permitted to remain affiliated with the Alliance. However, if any Department should be free from outside influence, it should be the Post and Telegraph Department.

the Alliance. However if any Department should be free from outside influence, it should be the Post and Telegraph Department.

The "Leader of the Opposition (the Hon. T." M. Wilford) said he did not desire to give a silent vote on the petition. He did not know whether there would be a vote, but if the Labour Party forced a division

Mr. Holland: "We will force a division. .There will be a division if the Prime Minister is not afraid to face one. The motion might be talked out."

The Prime Minister: "I propose that the debate shall proceed until it is finished."

MR. WILFORD'S POSITION.

Mr. Wilford said that ' although the question had raised some heat outside the debate in the House had not been a heated one. He did not believe that the Post and"" Telegraph officers should'affiliate with the Alliance of .Labour. It would be impossible for an outsider to function in a dispute between the State and a section of its employees. Any trouble which had arisen was due to/the muddlement- of. the. Government.; The Postmaster-Greneral actually told his officers to vote instead of saying straight out that the Government would not'permit affiliation. The, Postmaster-General: "What side are you on now?" Mr. Wilford referred to the grievances of the postal officials—grievances which should have been quickly settled. The x time was coming for the appointment of a permanent tribunal which would settle questions of service and wages in every branch of the Public Service. ' WAITING FOR THE CAT. The Postmaster-General (the Hon. J. G. Coates) commented upon the silence of the Leader of the Opposition when the application was under discussion. Evidently he was waiting to see which way the cat jumped.. The Leader of the Opposition: "We are not a one-man show.. You have only got one leader. You've got no say." The Postmaster-General said that Mr. Wilford waited until he was able to judge public opinion. When they looked for good, honest advice at a time when they needed it, none was forthcoming. Now they had -an announcement. On the question of affiliation the Government had . made its position perfectly clear. There could only be one master. If he had .made a mistake in allowing the ballot to be taken, he was willing to admit it. Several ballots, had taken place iv connection with the Post and Telegraph Association. He decided that the alliance ballot should be allowed to -proceed in order to clear the matter up. When he urged every member of the service to vote, he did not say that the Government was opposed' to affiliation, but he made it pretty clear that the proposal was regarded by the Government as a serjous one. Mr. Holland had stated that the ballot was brought about by grievances, It was brought about by the cut and ,for political purposes. The vlist of grievances mentioned in the petition was not worth consideration. Many of the grievances had been fixed up. The Government had made no threat to victimise anybody.

THE STRIKE QUESTION.

The Postmaster-General proceeded to quote from a pamphlet which, he said, was circulated among the members of the Post and Telegraph Association only. Mr. Hoberts, secretary of the alliance, was quoted as saying: "The .strike is a great weapon. It is also a dangerous one. . . . You may think' that if we

go on strike you may run free. You will be involved willy-nilly." '<• Ir another passage Mr. Roberts was quoted as saying that the .men should frame their own. regulations and not the Department. "The whole position is so clear," said Mr. Coates, "that it was almost impossible for us to even consider the question of affiliation.'' Mr. Holland-: "Tell us where you get your legal right to interfere." Mr. Coates proceeded- to show that other countries, particularly the United States, refused to permit the postal employees to ally themselves to an outside Labour body. He denied that nny intimidation had beer used by the officers of the Department to prevent the P. and T. Association from linking up with the Alliance of Labour. Any senior officer of the Department who took an active part in obtaining signatures to the counter petition did so because he realised that a mistake was being made. No members of the service was forced to sign any petition and no threat was used against any man who refused to sign. Any suggestion to the contrary was not worth replying to. 'However, he was quite satisfied that the efficiency and the secrecy of the service had not been interfered with as a result of the agitation that had taken place, and the officers would work as loyally in the future as they had worked in the past.

'YOUR OWN PERSONAL WEL

FARE."

Mr. M. J.- Savage ■{Auckland West) commented upon (he Minister's statement that no intimidation had been used. How could lis reconcile that with, his

letter to each member of the staff, which stated that the efficiency of the Department and "your own personal welfare" depended upon the next step being taken in the right direction. He proceeded to give instances of alleged victimisation at some of the Northern post offices. One man at Hamilton, he said, had been told to remember that he was a. married man There were scores of other like cases. The Minister had not used a big stick. No, but he had used a number of little sticks. The Post and Telegraph officers were asking for ■a legitimate and legal right, yet they were told that if they agreed to affiliation it would be at the price of losing their jobs. The Government should produce the legal authority under which it acted.

LIBERAL LEADER DEFENDED.

Mr. W. A. Veitch (Wanganui) defended the Leader of the Opposition against the "persona] attack" by the PostmasterGeneral. The latter had become so used to a one-man Government that he could not conceive oJ a party which consulted its members before making a pronouncement. The Liberal Party.gave liberty of thought to its members. The members of the Reform Party allowed the "great dictator" to say what he liked, and they said ditto. ' He blamed the Government for not' rectifying many of the grievances which the Post and Telegraph officers had.

THE RAILWAYMEN.

The Prime Minister referred to tho loyalty of the service, and asserted that the cut in wages was undoubtedly responsible for the agitation which resulted in the proposal that the P. and.T. Association should affiliate with the Alliance of Labour. Tho cut was forced on tho Government, and the Government did its duty, well knowing that its action would be unpopular. The Government had acted in the interests of the State. The railway servants were not in the sffme position as the members of .the P. and T. Association. Only the members of the. A.S.R.S. were affiliated with the Alliance of Labour^ . He did not know why the railwaymen were permitted to join up. Nobody seemed to notice it and nothing was done. It was a very regrettable fact, but it was just as well to let them go now. If it became necessary to take action the Government would do so.

PREPARED TO TAKE THE

CONSEQUENCES.

The Prime Minister said he felt the matter could have been discussed quietly and without party' bias! The Post-master-General had urged everyone to vote, for the papers were out before the proposal had been brought to general notice. Personally, he believed that it was absolutely against the best interests, of the country that such an alliance should take place. Reference had been made to the clause of the Versailles Treaty regarding industrial organisations, but it had never been contemplated that this should apply to Government departments. Mr. Massey referred to the Boyal Commission Get up in Australia to consider Very much the same question as that now being discussed, the commissioners having said association with industrial means had had- a , most pernicious effect on the morals of the Public Service, jpe honestly believed that the people- in the employ of the State in New Zealand had very little to complain of, for the Government had met them in every way possible—the record of the past ten years would show that to Sny impartial observer. He was quite prepared to take tKe consequences of preventing an affiliation.

jur. G. W. Forbes (Hurumti) said, tlie fact that the Postmaster-General had allowed the ballot to be taken had created the impression that .the decision would lie .given -effect. The PostmasterGeneral put hjs\ foot clown at the wrong time. Personally he thought the linking up to the P. and T. Officers' Association with the Alliance of Labour would bo a mistake; the Post and Telegraph employees could not say that they did not have advocates within tha House.

Mr. E. J. Howard (Christchuvch South) asked why the Post and Telegraph Officers' Association had been singled out in this matter for treatmont different to that accorded any other section of the community. Before the ink op the charter of the League of Nations signed by the Prime Minister had changed colour he had repudiated the provisions.

OVERRIDING THE LAW

Mr. V. H. Potter (Roskill) said that although the law of the land might permit the. P. add T. Association to jointhe Alliance of Labour, surely it was for Parliament—the highest Court in the land—to override the law in the interests of the country. If the application were permitted the caucus of . tha alliance would dictate the policy to be followed by j the Post and Telegraph men. There 1 could be only one master in New Zealand, and that master should be the Government of New Zealand elected by the people. The loyalty of the P. and T. men was undisputed. Mr. S. G. Smith (Taranaki) suggested that a good deal of the opposition to affiliation was political and much of it was due to ignorance. He was going to vote in favour of sending the petition back as a- protest against the action of the Postmaster-General in withholding his legal authority .for the action he had taken.

THE ASSOCIATION'S BLUNDER.

Mr. H. Atmore (Nelson) said that the only thing for the Government to do was to introduce legislation preventing the amalgamation of Civil Servants with outside Labour organisations. Neither the railwayman nor any other section should be permitted to link up. No State servant had a right to join a revolutiona,ry, non-elective body. Mr. W. E. Parry (Auckland Central) asserted that the Post and Telegraph officers were fighting for a sacred principle—the principle of free organisation of the workers.

Mr. L. M. Isitt (Christchurch Nqrth) said he was sure that the Government had made a big mistake in allowing'the ballot to proceed. He would vote against the amendment, and he was convinced that he would have no difficulty in explaining his attitude to • his electors. ',

Mr. 'J. W... Monro (Dunedin North) stated that the P. and T. Association was acting in a perfectly constitutional way, and it was remarkable that those who supported constitutional methods should oppose the association.

Support for the Government's action was given by Mr. W. D. Lysnar (Gisborne).

"To-night the House is discussing one of the most mean and contemptible actions of a most mean and contemptible Government," declared Mr. P. Frascr (Wellington Central).

Mr. Speaker called Mr. to order, whereupon the member withdrew and described the action as one of unmitigated tyranny on the part of a Government which had become conspicuous for its acts of tyranny. He emphasised the fact that what the Post and Telegraph Officers' Association was asking for was the production of'*the Postmaster-General's authority for prohibiting the affiliation. Those who had issued the counter-petition had been the tools of the Administration.

The Postmaster-General, in a personal explanation, said ho had had nothing to do with the petition, the first ho heard of it being that it had been circulated. The, Government, had known nothing of it.

Mr. B. A. Wright (Wellington Subttrlj3) rcfurreJ " to" "the cxl.i-j.orJiinu'y speech of t-Ue member for .Wellington

Central," and said he had not one tittle of evidence to support his statement that the Postmaster-General had used his senior officers as tools to secure the counter-petition. The- dominating factor in the Alliance of Labour was the Waterside Workers' Union, which boycotted any man who wished to act j honourably on the wharves, and these ' were the people with whom the Post and Telegraph Officers' Association wished to affiliate. The association should be saved from itself. GOVERNMENT BLAMED. Mr. R. W. Smith (Taumarunui) said he would vote against the amendment, as the proposed affiliation was against the interests of the men and the coun^ try. He blamed the Government for sanctioning the ballot. Mr. D. G. Sullivan (Avon) associated himself with the fight of the Labour Party on behalf of the citizen rights of the members of* the Post and Telegraph Officers' Association. "There has been a sheer waste of time for political purposes, and very little done in the interests of the P. and T. servants," was the way in which Mr. G. Witty (Riccarton) summed up the debate. It would be useless, he said, to refer the petition back. The division was taken at 12.50 a.m., and the Labour amendment was defeated.