THIRD DAY OF HEARTING

Evening Post, Volume CIII, Issue 74, 29 March 1922, Page 7

THIRD DAY OF HEARTI NG

UNLOADING COAL.

The third day of hearing commenced this morning. Mr. Roberts handed in photos, of tiie "stage" system for unloading coal in operation. Captain Walton," wharf superintendent for the Union Steam Ship Company, who has been in the box since Monday, afternoon, was further examined by 3Mr. Bruce as to the safety of the "plank" system in unloading coal. Mr. Bruce: suggested his Honour might, see a .demonstration, and the President said in all probability the Court would see the gear at work. „ In answer to a question, the witness said the companies, did have their own men in the sense that some men followed certain companies. The Union Company had a class of men it could rely on to carry out coaling operations—this to a certain extent. When the company was busy and had used up all its regular men it might go to the Labour corner and try to get other men. These would be out of the crowd waiting.

Mr. Bruce: "The 200 'duds' you mentioned?"

His Honour suggested that in a large body of men such as worked on the waterfront, there must be some men who were hot so efficient as the others —rather below the average, standard. The efficient men out of employment temporarily naturally could not be classed as such. , i

The witness in cross-examination said the waterside workers had sometimes objected to work friction winches, such as on the Poherua and on several of the coal hulks. Mr. Bruce said they were willing to work friction winches, if they were in good order. . Captain Walton said the Harbuur Board was not concerned with outward going steamers, such, as were the chief • source of work in port at present, and the result was that the Harbour Board had a surplus of men just now. Mr.- Bruce explained that a large number of the Harbour Board men Jived in the distant suburbs, and if they were dismissed at 3 p.m. to come back at 6 p.m. they would have to hang round in the interval. The witness said the men, were at liberty. MATTERS ACRIMONIOUS. Mr. Bruce: "You have said in your, evidence that I threatened to stick up a ship if you did not agree to our^terms —when was tuat?" Witness:. "You have, said that bo »many times." " Have you not told me you would stick-the whole lot .up?"—" Yes. I Cold you, if you went on like you were doing, the employers were prepared to stick up the whole lot.;" • Pressed as. to instances, the witnest mentioned the Kaituna, the Calm, and the Kaitangata, among other vessels. The President of the Court intervened, as the exchange wiis getting acrimonious. Mr. Bruce had asked for instances, and the witness was giving : them, but the Court was not concerned with their details; it was concerned' with the merits of the case.

A cross-table remark by Mr. Smith that tho union officials thought it too risky to go into the box brought Mr.; Roberts to his feet in vehement pro-* te3t. He was not afraid to go into the box anywhere. . The employers' ■ ropre-* sentatives were trying to force the inference that the union officials were. *. section of desDeradoes. Xhnv knew thc.vJ

were wrong in making such statements to prejudice the Court; they did not give the workers' representatives a chance.

'; His Honour,: "We should havo stopped Mr. Smitli if we thought he meant "• it seriously." The next' point was the question of ■ paying for broken time from 3 p.m. to ■ 6 p.m. ■i Mr. Smith said the idea of the en>- :,' ployerS was to have unlimited transfer ■•■ and thus secure a decasualisatiou of em- * ployment. It was a rotary system that ;'; ,was proposed.. . ' .. ' . '■< Mr. Bruce: " Decasualisation ' of labour is the last thing in their minds. This is an. invidious claim to enable ' employers to avoid paying for broken % time and to hold the workers under :.' their control all the time."

Captain Walton said he favoured the rotary system, which was the subject of experiment elsewhere. The witness said that the decrease in the output of coal was certainly due t« a " go-slow " policy, and not to the gear. The first time they had seen gangs working for years on coal was when they were apparently competing with the mechanical unloader—the average ran up to 17 tons, and that was the only way they could explain such a' rise. EFFECT OF THE WAR. The witness was referring again to the falling off in standard of work during the war, when Mr. Bruce asked if Captain Walton could say how many mea went from the Wellington wharves to the war. The witness did not say.

Mr. Bruce: " Could you expect to ■■ have the same type of worker during the war as before it, when so many men went away?"—"l don't think any raora men went from the wharf thaa from anywhere else."

" But did not every other industry ii» the community suffer^"—" I could not say. It was not altogether a matter of physique." Mr. Bruce said a great number of men had gone either as volunteers or under conscription, and they were naturally the most physically fit, and so the work must inevitably suffer., Was the type on the wharf as physically fit during the war as before, he asked.

The witness said he could not see a"ny difference.

Mr. Bruce: "No, you would not. I will not ask any more questions."

ROTARY SYSTEM OF EMPLOYMENT.

On the question of a rotary system of employment, Mr. Smith referred to Brisbane, where he understood it was abolished. This was denied by Mr. Bruce. His Honour said the question for the Court was whether the system was working anywhere satisfactorily.

Mr. Roberts said it had been working satisfactorily in Seattle for thirty years, where waterside work was a regular calling.

His Honour said there must be some system of limitation of the men employed on the wharf to work.

Mr. itobsrts said there was also a similar system at Liverpool. .

Mr. Smith: "Not a rotary system." Mr. Roberts: "It amounts to a rotary system." There was also a system, he said, at Westporfc of equalising wages and permanent employment all the year round. At Sydney there had been a rotary system.

Mr. Smith explained that at Sydney there had been the Port Jackson Stevedoring Company, Tout the mep kicked against it 3 eventual success, and the New South Wales Government had abolished the system and the company had gone out of existence. He had particulars of the system worked at Seattle. The Westport system of equalising wages was not a good one, and the employers wanted it abolished, as it deprived the worker of any incentive to do individually his best.

Mr. Roberts gave the reason for the failure of the system in Sydney as due ■to the fact that the stevedoring com- .\. panr gave preference to loyalists, and •600 men were engaged in preference to ■ 4000 others who could not get a job until ; -the 600 were employed. Recently the ' Sydney. waterside workers had resolved at the biggest meeting held for years to seek the restoration of the rotary system. ;, Mr. Roberts said he would ask permis■sion to put in the standard authority on ..<waterside employment in the United V States. '■■■ A STEVEDORE'S EVIDENCE. William Benjamin Taylor, coal contracting stevedore at Wellington, said •he knew no other port where any de- ;■ struction was made in coal, dirty, dusty, •or so forth. Travelling time to Miramar 'was not fairly used as the men who were ;;to work from 8 a.m. to,6'p;m. left ■ at -5.45 p.m. In regard to transfer of '•Jabour,.the witness said the present sys- •', tern caused too much overlapping and ••-unlimited transfer would make the gangs iii effect permanent. As regarded the decrease in the output of coal he did not think the men had the same interest in their work or had the same physique they had years ago. Mr. Smith : "Otherwise they don't : put their backs into it."

In cross-examination by Mr. Roberts, the witness suggested that stop-work meetings'might very~well.be held one month in the day-time and the next at night, so as to give the employer a fair thing in the matter.

Mr. Roberts: "I suppose you handle absolutely the worst vessels' that come into poet as far as gear is concerned?" Witness: "I suppose they run the worst pretty close." " After you have personally rigged the gear on the vessels you are operating, have you had any complaint from the men yo.i employ?"—"No; I can't say I have." HANDLING THE MEN. " Yes; because the experienced men in your employ are satisfied with the way you have rigged the gear?"-—"Yes; I suppose so." " Have the men who follow your employment given you generally reasonable satisfaction?"

The . witness agreed. His experience had been with men who had worked with him in tho past, and with men whom ho had trained, and who took an interest in their work. . ,

Mr. Roberts : "So far as you are concerned, you do take a special interest in twining your men to do their work efficiently?—" Yes."

: "Don't you think it would pay the em■plovers to train their inefficient men to do their work efficiently?"—"l suppose •it would. I may say that when I startled nobody was a, biggar greenhorn than myself. I wondered if I would ever last through my frrst job."

As regarded the wet weather clause, the witness was asked if ever in the old days men worked in heavy rain. "Yes," ihe replied with a smile, "I have worked with my boots off many a time." In answer to further questions he said the present clause was unreasonably worked —there were faults on both sides. A good deal depended on the way the ,wharf worker was handled. A man -who ■]<new how to handle Mm, could handle him. He had known men knock off for a heavy fog. "Our object, your Honour," said Mr. Roberts, "is to show that whenever and .wherever wo get personal supervision of men, there is no difficulty; but where supervision is delegated to others it is difficult. The witness said the theory of personal supervision applied in practically every .case. Mr. Roberts: rightthrough New Zealand on tho wharves have found that out. . . . The contractor, so to speak, is a. bit of a para-' j

site. He has to live- by his wits, and if his wit 3 are not a little better than the other man's he gets left."

On the question of friction winches, the witness said he would not have an ordinary waterside worker handle friction winches unless he sat over him. Reliable men were wanted for friction winches. Inexperienced men had been put on winches in 1913, and it was not very successful at the start. At this stage the Conrt adjourned until 2. IS p.m.