"FORGIVE AND FORGET"

Evening Post, Volume XCVII, Issue 27, 31 January 1919, Page 3

"FORGIVE AND FORGET"

MILITARY DEFAULTERS IN GAOL

PLEA FOR RELEASE

SIR JAMES ALLEN'S REFUSAL.

The Minister of Defence (Sir James Alien), who is also Acting Prime Minister, gave an unmistakable "No" to a request of yesterday's deputation from a Labour Conference that persons imprisoned for non-compliance with the Military Service Act should be released at once The Minister's words showed that he had not changed his attitude since this matter was discussed in Parliament.

Mr. P. Frasor, M.P., who introduced the. deputation, laid that it represented about 60,000 workers.

Mr. T. Bloodworth (Auckland) said that the conference was quite unanimous in its wish that the men should be released. It was felt that no good purpose could be served- by retaining these men in prison, and the country was also suffering an economic loss. Moreover, as the war had now ended, the Government could well exercise clemency in this matter. It was believed that the country as a whole would approve such a course": certainly organised Labour would approve it.

Mr. J. Roberts (Wellington) submitted that the continuance of the imprisonment was a petty policy. The basis of the Peace Conference was "forgive and forget." A movement, was gaining ground in England for the release of "conscientious objectors." The need for the enforcement of the law against such persons no longer existed in New Zealand. Labour would like to see such a democratic country as New Zealand giving a lead to the world in granting an amnesty to imprisoned military defaulters.

Mr. W. E. Parry asked what was the purpose of the Government in keeping these men in gaol. The miners whom he represented felt very strongly in this matter. Without making any threat he could say if the Government persisted in a policy of vindictivenese, there would be trouble. The Government should allow the old sores to heal, and not rub salt into them. The Government could raise—not lower—its dignity by restoring liberty to the prisoners.

Mr. Fraser remarked that he had recently visited Waikeria, where the objectors included Quakers, whose reasons were based on religious grounds. There were also men, International Socialists, who objected to all forms of war. The Quakers had admitted that the Internationals had just as mucli right to object as Quakers had, arid the Quakers wished to be on the same basis, in the eyes of the law, as the "Internationale." The Quakers would not take advantage of the new machinery for appeals unless the "Internationals" could be, assured of the same treatment as Quakers. • The Minister replied that he wished to remove any impression that the Government or the Minister of Defence was vindictive. There were some sores that could not be healed; there were 16,000 or 17,000 men lying dead on -foreign soil,; his own son was buried on Gallipoli. He had been obliged to send men with two children to the front, and was nearly forced to send men with three children. It might not have been necessary to send such married men if certain other men, who had no ■ chiMren, had not shirked or refused to do their duty to their country. Men had not been punished twice for the same military offence. A man had been released after punishment for one offence, but when he committed the same offence again—refusing to do his duty for his country— he was again punished. Similar procedure was taken with a man who repeated such an offence as theft.

Several deputationists interjected that the Minister had not made a fair comparison, as different principles were involved, but Sir James held to his opinion. The Minister said that one good purpose for which offenders were committed to gaol was that other persons should be deterred from similar behaviour. The men in question had broken the law. They had. saved their skins while others had lost their lives. He did not think that any man could be regarded as honourable who did not fight for his country. When the country's existence was at stake it was necessary for a State to take adequate measures for its defence, and to discourage shirking of national duty; this was not petty policy. Since the declaration of the armistice a board had been set up to consider all the cases of "religious objectors" in order that genuine ones might be discerned from others. Some of the objectors had even refused to do ambulance work, succouring sick and wounded on the battlefield. There were men in prison who were plainly defiant shirkers. He did not blame men for having a temperament of fear, but he did blame a man if he allowed such a. temperament to make him a shirker. He did not know what would happen when peace was declared. It was possible that the Imperial Government would declare an amnesty of prisoners, and New Zealand wouid be guided to some extent by whatever action the Imperial Government might take. Again, the Government had a duty to the men who had gone. The defaulters had escaped all the perils of the battlefield; they bad no trials such as the men had in the trenches. If these imprisoned defaulters and shirkers were released now they would be faring better than soldiers overseas who had yet to be repatriated. "Are you not glad that the -war is won?" askedl Sir James.

"We don't know whether the war is won. It may be won from your viewpoint," replied one deputationist. Another said that all people were glad that the end of the war had come.

Sir James declared he was satisfied that the Government had worked on a policy which had the support of the great majority of the public. If the British Empire as a whole and its Allies had not adopted the policy of conscription the war would have been lost. The law here had been the same for rich and poor. A deputationist: Some of the rich dodged serving.

The Minister replied that all defaulters would be treated alike. The search for such shirkers was still going on. Mr. Fraser asked whether International Socialists would be placed on the same footing as religious objectors. Sir James Allen answered that their cases would be referred, in the same way as others, to the Special Board.

Mr. Fraser stated that returned soldiers in Auckland had signed a petition for the release of conscientious objectors.