STORMY SITTING

Evening Post, Volume XC, Issue XC, 7 October 1915, Page 3

STORMY SITTING

"WASHING-UP" BILL MEMBERS OBJECT TO CLAUSES BREACH OF FAITH ALLEGED CAUCUS REVELATIONS. In moving the second reading of the Reserves and Other Lands Disposal and Public Bodies Empowering Bill (the "washing-up" Bill), the Prime Minister said that he would only move the second reading pro forma at present, as the Bill contained over 103 clauses, and explanatory notes which he had had prepared and printed would be circulated later amongst the members. Mr. H. G. Ell protested against the practice, still pursued, of bringing down, in a "washing-up" Bill, at the end of the session, proposals ■which should be put before the House in separate legislation. The Bill passed its second reading at 7.48 p.m., without further discussion. In Committee on the Bill, the Prime Minister said that he intended to suggest an improvement in regard to the introduction of the "washing-up" Bill, to meet Mr Ell's objection. It would be necessary, however, for local bodies and others desiring legislation such as usually went into this Bill, to have their proposals before the Lands Committee not later than a month before the end of the session. Every clause could then be carefully looked into. A number of members referred to matters concerning their localities in the Bill, and the Prime Minister said that if any member took the responsibility for striking out any local matter, he would not oppose it being struck out. THE TROUBLE STARTS. Fifteen minutes later, Mr. J. S. Dickson moved to strike out Clause 27, affecting an Auckland matter, and' the investment of the proceeds of the sale of certain land in a particular way. The clause was retained by 34 to 33. Mr. Ell thereupon declared that if the House was going to vote solid against the desire of the members representing the constituencies concerned to have clauses deleted, the Bill would not have a rapid passage. The Prime Minister : No threats, because I am not going to take them ! (Hear, hear.) "Take your licking," cried members to Mr. Ell. Mr. Anderson : I want to take exception to the words of the hon member. They are an insult to us all. Mr. Ell : I was not referring to you ! Mr. Anderson : You are referring to me, because I was one who voted against the clause. He added that he had so voted on principle THE OBJECTIONABLE CLAUSE. The House next divided on clause 30, which authorises the lessees of certain lands in blocks 9 and 11, Aroha Survey District, Auckland, to acquire the feesimple at the original value. The clause was retained by 44 votes to 18. Mr. Ell protested at clause 31, which authorised the acquisition of the feeI simple of certain lands in' Te Aroha 1 township. The Prime Minister said that a Commission had visited Te Aroha, and enquired into the matter. Mr. J. Strauchon (late Under-Secretary of Lands) was its chairman. Mr. Massey lead the report of the Commission, and the clause was framed on the recommendation. A deputation of Te Aroha residents had also interviewed him (Mr. Massey), and asked for the provision now in the Act. The land was originally set aside for mining purposes, but he believed there was no gold there. It now comprised { town sections. The intention was that | the land should be sold at the present I value, not the original. The valuation would be made as follows :—lf: — If the sections were approved for sale, there would be deducted improvements from the present value, and the amount remaining would be the basis of the price. "IT IS NOT GOING THEOUGH." Mr- Ell declared that the old principle of leasehold versus freehold was involved in the question, and he was not going to agree to the clause. "The clause," he declared emphatically, "is not going through !" The Premier : "Then I am going to sit here till Christmas!" - Mr. Ell declared the Prime Minister was committing a breach of faith, and he appealed to Sir Joseph Ward, who went on to the Treasury Benches on the distinct understanding and with the distinct promise that legislation of this sort would not come down. "That promise," he cried, "has been broken, and we are faced now with the fact that the National Government is going to vote with the Prime Minister." This was a contentious question, which had no right to come up. The supper adjournment here intervened. When the House resumed, Mr. Poland explained the position regarding the mining leases as he understood it. The Prime Minister stated that the "washing-up" Bills had never been policy measures with him. The people of Te Aroha seemed obsessed with the idea that the place would never go ahead until they had the freehold title. That was the reason why a deputation had come all the way down from Te Aroha to interview him, and the reason why the clause had been inserted. It did not matter to him in the slightest it the clause was talked out. Messrs. P. C. and J. Anstey suggested that the clause be held over for a year to enable full information to be obtained regarding the leases. The Hon. W. H. Herries remarked that if the residents were granted the freehold they would be able to launch out and make the place a proper tourist resovt. "I have never known a more contentious 'washing-up' Bill than this one," said Mr. C. H. Poole, and it was only fair that members should have a chance to analyse the position properly before they were asked to pass such legislation as that proposed. He suggested that the cliuse be held over. Dr. Thacker: "I may say straight away that if there .is going to be a stonewall, I am prepared to stay here J for three weeks to assist the member for Christchurch East." He added that he ' objected to the methods of the Government Whip, who had just been round "advising his men what to do " "ABSOLUTELY- WRONG." Mr D. H. Guthrie : That is absolutely wrong ! Dr. Thacker repeated that he objected to these tactics. He had voted in Caucus for the National Cabinet — and he rlid so advisedly — because there was to . be no contentious legislation. There was ' a sentiment through the country that the present Government was a Massey Go\einment, but he wanted it distinctly vinderstood tliat as far as he was concerned there was no Massey Government. MR. DICKSON'S REVELATION. I Mr. J. S. Dickson (Parnell) thought the Minister would be well advised to hold the clause over. He mentioned that for some time past he could not under1 »Und why co much property had changed

hands in Te Aroha. He understood now. Apparently the provision in the clause had been anticipated. Dr. Newman considered that trier was a craze on to part with Crown land. It would be a perfect crime to part with the freehold at the present time. Mr. G. W. Forbes emphasised th« desirability of avoiding a stiff fight on j party lines. Let the Prime Minister show a national spirit and not attempt to bullock the clause through. Mr. Ell reminded the members of the Cabinet that when negotiations were j going forward to establish a National ! Government it was distinctly promised I that there was to be no contentious J legislation. That was the information given to the members of the Liberal Party in caucus by the present Minister ] of Finance. He did not want to say hard things about the Liberal members in the Cabinet, but if this were persisted in he would never again attend a Liberal caucus. A wrong was being done, and a promise had been violated, and done in a way for which there was no public excuse. It was not a matter of urgency. There was evidently some speculation going on. Mr. Dick-son : It has 1 een jjoing on since Ja'iuaiy Mr. Peaice : Why not go to a division' Mr. Ell replied that "it was all v e iy well to talk about a division. The matter Wl3 being dealt witfe as a party question by fie Covernment. "KNOCKED OFF HIS PERCH." Mr. Hindmarsh said that the manner in which the Government persisted in j pushing the clause through rather knocked one off one's perch as regards < the bona fides of the Prime Minister, who, before the formation of the National Government, had made piteous appeals to avoid contentious questions. The Bill could only be described as outrageous. Mr. L. M. Isitt said that the House had no right to discuss the clause, and if the men on the other side of the House were men of honour they would get up and protest against the clause being forced upon members for consideration. The clause was a contentious one, and had not the National Government been agreed upon the distinct promise of the Prime Minister that no contentious clause would be forced upon Parliament? (Hear, hear.) If the clause were persisted in then the result would be very deplorable. Since the National Government was formed they had managed to get along very peacefully in the interests of the Empire, and why should such a clause be inserted in the Bill to disturb the spirit of unity that existed? Mr. T. K. Sidey (who rose to speak at 11.27 p.m.) urged that a division should be taken on the clause. A SERIOUS MATTER. Mr. Webb said it was going to he a serious matter if the Prime Minister insisted upon the clause. There were people of all shades of political opinion who said that the proposal would be one of the most scandalous things this House has ever A member : There's a letter in the Chamber to that effect. A member : It's contrary to the report of the Royal Commission. Mr. Payne : All on the side of vested interests. - Mr. T. A. H. Field urged that the clause be held over. Mr. Payne said there was no greater travesty of the so-called principle that was supposed to emanate from the surroundings of the National Cabinet than " thiß robbery clause." He could not think of any greater hypocrisy — and the House was guilty of a good deal of hypocrisy — than for members to ask the men to go to the front and then to allow the people who remained behind to rob the people of their national heritage. Hon. Mr. Herries : The State does not get sixpence out of it. It goes to the local bodies in the mining districts. Mr. Payne : " The local bodies are part of the State." He strongly deprecated the clause as being contentious, and said he was surprised at it being brought down by the National Cabinet. THE PREMIER ENTERS. At midnight the Prime Minister and j Sir Joseph Ward, who had been absent, entered the Chamber. Mr Massey said that he had been away for some time, and had not heard all the arguments used. But he had heard enough to be very disappointed at what some members had said, that this cla-use was intended to be a. breach of faith on the part of the members of the National Cabinet. Mr. Webb : Who said that ' Mr. Payne : I said it, for one. Mr. Massey : The member for Christchurch East said it also. . . . There is one thing I try to do, and for which I don't always get credit, and that is, when I make a promise, I try to keep my word. Dr. Thacker : You have done it, sir. Mr. Massey: "I try to." It was not correct, as one member had said, that the Bill had been prepared for some time, and that a favourable opportunity had been awaited to pass it. The Law Draughtsman, who was present, if he could be heard, would say that the clause had only been prepared ten days or a » fortnight ago. An appeal had been made to give time to consider the clause, and to visit 'the district. Now. if he was going to be accused of a breach of faith every time something was brought up with which some members did not agree, where were they going to end' There must always be a difference of opinion, and it would be impossible to do business under such circumstances if members were to rise up and say it was contrary to the conditions. While he had been outside a number of members ■ had been to him and had been particularly good in their statement of the case. He had, therefore, said that if members wanted time the matter would be considered ; and if there was not sufficient time now he was prepared to hold the clause over until next session. (Hear, hear.) He wanted members' assistance to get the Bill through, and get on with the rest of the business. "I make this offer in good faith," said Mr. Massey, "but the accusations of breach of faith must be ended." A member ■ A very fair offer ! Mr. Massey added that the clause would come up again at the beginning of next session. (Hear, hear.) SIR JOSEPH WARD'S VIEW Sir Joseph • Ward : "Some ofthehon members have been referring to me as being party to a breach of faith. I want to make this clear : that before the Government was formed a deputation interviewed me from Te Aroha on this matter. ... I said I would not put any obstacle in the way. . . There was no breach of faith on the part of either the Prime Minister or myself." (Hear, hear.) The clause wa3 withdrawn. RAPID PROGRESS. Progress on the remainder of the Bill was then more rapid, and the clauses I were put through with very little discussion. Thirty-two additional clauses recommended by His Excellency the Governor were also considered. On one of these clauses, which proposed to make the Dunedin City Council liable for rates on the land and buildings connected with the electrical works at Waipori (Tuapeka, County) a division was called, and it was defeated by 16 votes to 31. With this exception the clauses were agreed to. A PETOXE CLAUSE. Mr T. M. Wiiford moved a new clause I comprising an airangement between the Petone Borough, the Hutt Park Railway j Company, Ltd., and the Gear Meat Preserving and Freezing Company, regarding the Hutt Park Railway. Mr. Wiiford said that the clause was the basis of settlement of a vexed question for twenty odd years. lb enable the respective

parties to come to an agreement on a matter for which a writ had been issued. The Hon. A. L. Herdman said the solicitor for the Petone Borough Council had agreed to the arrangement on behalf of his council. Mr. R. A. Wright said the proposals should be put into a separate Bill. He called for a division. The clause was accepted by 31 to 13. Mr. D. Buick moved a new clause to exempt the Manawatu A. and P. Show Grounds at Palmerston North from payment of rates, a proviso being added that the Borough Council be entitled to the free use of the land for municipal purposes for 'twenty days. Members thought the exemption should be general over the Dominion in regard to societies if the Manawa'Lu Association were given the concession. The clause was lost on the voices. The Bill, which contained in its amended form 141 clauses, was reported at 2.50 a.m., and read a third time.