TRAMWAY ENQUIRY.

Evening Post, Volume LXXXIII, Issue 8, 10 January 1912, Page 3

TRAMWAY ENQUIRY.

CASE OF INSPECTOR FULLER. UNION REPRESENTATIVES WITHDRAW CHARGES ANSWERED IN THEIR ABSENCE. The case of Inspector Fuller of the City Tramway service, which has been so much before the public during the pa«t mouth, was dealt with by the City Council at its special meeting last night. Thdre was a large attendance of th« public, the rear oi the Council Chamber being crowded. There were, however, only one or two tramway men in- uniform. The proceedings were watched with close attention, and, with one exception, without any public demonstration. The councillors present were: — Councillors Hindmarsh, M'Kenzie, Barber, Godber, Trevor, Cohen, Cameron, Shirt•cliffe, Fletcher, Atkinson, and Fitzger- . aid. ~ Inspector Fuller was present with his counsel, Mr. A. L. Herdman. The Acting-Mayor opened the proceeding* by calling upon the Town Clerk to read the correspondence between the Council and the union — a letter from the" union and a reply by the council. The Town Clerk read the letters already published in the press. The Acting-Mayor then moved that the action taken by the council informally be endoxised by the council. Councillor Hindmarsh on ,a point of order objected* to thk procedure, and a discussion arose as to whether it was proper. Councillor Hindmarsh urged that a ,special report was necessary or notice of motion before the business could bo dealt with. Finally, Councillor Shirtcliffu to put the matter in order moved : — "That the letter of the union be received, and that tho letter of the Acting-Mayor be approved." This met the wishes of the council, and was adopted unanimously. CASE OF EMPLOYER AGAINST i EMPLOYEE. Immediately after the Acting-Mayor turned to the union secretary : "I understand, Mr. Sutherland, that you. do not intend to go on with this cade if counsel appears on the other side?" v Mr. Sutherland explained the position. It was not a case of the union against the City Council or of the union against Inspector Fuller. It was simply " the case of employer against employees. The union secretary was proceeding to enlarge further When the Acting-Mayor : "Mr. Sutherland, if you are not going on with the case, we are not prepared to allow you £0 discuss it." Protest warn raised by Councillor Fletcher against thi§ course. Surely, he said, Mr. Sutherland should be allowed to explain hid case. .Voices from spectators: Hear, bear. A VERY SERIOUS MATTER. ■Hie Ac'fcingiMayor, in (suppressing this enthusiasm, pointed out that this case was clearly a matter which should be approached most judiciously. There should be no interruption from the back: it Was a -very serious matter, and required very careful haindling. He would order the gallery to be cleared if .interruptions continued. Again Councillor -Fletcher ventured to suggest that the union secretary was entitled to give hie reasons for not* going on with the case. The Acting-Mayor : The reason why the union is not proceeding in this case is because the other side is defended by counsel. Mr. Sutherland had said he did not intend to proceed because of his objection to counsel on the other side. MATTERS AT A DEADLOCK. " This opens up a great field of argument," began Mr. Sutherland. It was a matter ac between employer and em-ployee-—with the City Council on one side a» the' employer. The inspector, as an employee, ought to be made to appear before the manager of the tramways, and not allowed to . bring any other person into the master to plead for him. The union considered that Inspector Fuller should be quite capable of defending his own case. After furtheo parley, the ActingMayor turned to Inspector Fuller with the question : " Are you prepared to go on without counsel'/" Inspector Fuller 5 No. Then the Acting-Mayor expressed the opinion that under the circumstances Inspector Fuller was entitled £0 get all the expert, advice he could. "If the other side will not have it, and Inspector Fuller says he will not go on without counsel, then I am afraid we are at a deadlock." QUESTION OF PRECEDENT. Mr. Stttheriand : Would 1 be wrong in asking if this action "be taken as a precedent? . Would other emgloyees be entitled to be represented by counsel? The Acting-Mayor thought that the case wae entirely different. Thk K*a« contested by the union secretary, who considered it was not altogether different. He Went on to narrate the cate of a. former "undesirable' 1 official, who -had to get out of town. The, Acting-Mayor replied that so far as he knew the business was quite settled. Tho other matter he suggested was irrelevant. ' AN OPPORTUNITY TO ANSWER THE CHARGES. Councillor Shirtcliffe pointed out that charges against Inspector Fuller had b?eti published broadcast. The union h»u been invited to substantiate • the iliaijjes. They could not see their way t'i do 30 so long a£ Inspector Fuller employed. r C6ttnsel. As matters stood. Mr. Fuller would have no opportunity of replying to tht charge* published againsi ';rtn. He most certainly deserved an opportunity of replying. "I do" not think.'* concluded Councillor Shirtcliffe, "the matter can end at this moment. I suggest that- Mr. Herdman should be .permitted to make a statement." COUNSEL'S STATEMENT. Jlr. Herdman, at the. invitation of the Acting-Mayor, made a statement. He said he had been instructed by Mr. Fulj<?r lot the purpose of cross-examining any witness, who might be called by the Tramways Union against him. He had received a long list of charges from the Tramways Union that morning. He regretted that the union had come to a d&terminatidn not to proceed with the charges against Inspector Fuller. Many of tho charges were of a very grave character, not only reflecting, on his capacity as inspector in the tramway jservice but some reflecting on his personal character. It stood to reason that Inspector Fuller could not let things stand as at the present moment. They were there to answer the charges against him. The Tramways Union had refused to call evidence, refused to appear, refused to substantiate accusations brought against Inspector Fuller. Tf the\tnion still persisted in this attitude they, should -not be allowed to cross-examine Inspector Fuller in his statement. Some of the charges they believed to be inventiona, others they could not understand. Inspector Fuller should be allowed to state to the council what actually transpired in connection, wilh the charges. • He trusted the council would allow Inspector JPulJer to take this ci^ree.

Councillor Cameron aske-d if tho union was not prepared to withdraw wine of the charges. Councillor Cohen : I would like to hear what Mr. Sutherland has to say. Acting-Mayor : He has made his decision already. ! COUNCILLOR HINDMARSH'S | OPINION. j Councillor Hindmaxsh •• By a majority vote of this council it was- considered Inspector Fuller should not^ act as inspector any longer. There is no doubt about that. We did what we thought was our duty without fear or favour of the Tramways Union, notwithstanding what is said about ue by certain newspapers Councillor Cameron : On a point of order. Councillor Hindmareh is referring to a previous debate. Councillor Hindmarsh : Surely 1 can refer to the result of a past meeting. Acting-Mayor •. I don't think you can 5 I rule you can't. MISTAKE MADE BY THE COUNCIL. Councillor Hindmarsh protested etronuly against tho ruling. He submitted that had not the council made the unfortunate mistake of putting. Inspector Fuller back on duty pending the discussion on the notice of motion to rescind, the preseut trouble would never have arisen. It was not a case of a plaintiff abandoning a case. It did nob. rest \with the union to drop the case. The City Council Was the real plaintiff. The council was bound ,to enquire into charges against one of its employees. - The council as employers must look into the matter. GIVE INSPECTOR FULLER A HOLIDAY. "What I suggest/ concluded Coun-> cillor. Hindmarsh, "is that Inspector Fuller should no longer act as inspector until the rescinding motion comes on at the next meeting of the council, on Thursday \ week. Nobody need think I have consulted the union in this matter. I have not. I suggest that the council give Inspector Fuller a holiday until Thursday week. I cay we ought to do that. If the majority of the council determines to rescind the motion, all well and good ; if the majority determines that Inspector Fuller no to another department, all will be well." Councillor Hindmarsh moved that Inspector Fuller be given a holida^ until next Thursday week. Councillor Atkinson ridiculed the motion, and the Acting-Mayor ruled it out of orderCouncillor Cameron urged that the council should take no part in the examination of Inspector Fuller. ; The council resolved unanimously to aek the secretary of the uitiou if he was prepared to go on with the case. The question was put to him by the Acting-Mayor. THE SECRETARY STILL DECLINES. Mr. Sutherland : No — not under the conditions ; we are not prepared to go on with the case. Councillor Cameron, asked if the union was prepared to i withdraw certain charges against Inspector Fuller. -On behalf of the union I say emphatically we are not prepared to withdraw any charges ; what wo would do would be Ho add to them. The Acting-Mayor asked the execu. tive of the union to withdraw. The three members of the executive then withdrew. PROTESTS BY COUNCILLORS. When the union executive had withdrawn. Councillor Barber rose and asked whether the council intended to judge the- matter in. their absence. He considered it wrong that the council should take up the attitude of crossexamining without the other side being heard. It would, be distinctly unfair. Councillor Barber recorded his protests at further length. The Acting-Mayor endeavoured to ex- \ plain away the previous speaker's ob- j jections. No cross-examination was to be allowed. All he intended .was that I the councillors should' hear what Inspector Fuller had to" say, and they could then draw their own conclusions. Voluble protest was entered by Councillor Hindmarsh. against the action of j the council proposing to go on, in the* absence of the union executive. They were there as .representatives of the administration of a large body of men. , In reply th© Acting-Mayor quoted the opinion of the Mayor (Mr. T. M. Wilford). Councillor Hindmarsh again disagreed with the chairman's ruling, and there was a characteristic verbal passage at arms between the speaker and the chairman, in which the -latter reminded Councillor Hindmarsh of his duty and of the courtesy due to the chair. "PROCEEDINGS AN ABSOLUTE DISGRACE." After Councillor Cameron' had explained what he considered to be the duty of the cotincil, and after further debate; Councillor Fitzgerald intervened, and said he was sure, now that the union representatives had withdrawn, that tho council desired to get at the bottom ot this matter. But they only aggravated the business by bickering over the table like this. The union had mado the suggestion that they (the union executive) should not appear. Let councillors now, as the trustees of the public, appointed specially to govern the tramways, look into the matter. He did not think it ¦wise that this business should be allowed to get-into the press. "I say that the proceedings are absolutely a fiisgrace to the city — an absolute disgrace. It is your place, Mr. Chairman, as Act-ing-Mayor, to suggest that we go into committee." MATTER MUST BE FINISHED IN PUBLIC. The- Acting-Mayor: "I am » sorry I cannot agree with you. The matter has begun in public, and it ought to be finished in public." Councillor Fitzgerald : "The whole business is an absolute force." Councillors : "No, No !" ' Councillor FitageraJd : "I say that it is. It's an absolute faTCe." He- added that a certain matter circularised amongst councillors had been published in the press, but he ventured to say that none of them knew anything about it. "Now that the union has withdrawn from the case, I see no objection to Inspector Fuller making a statement and letting it stop at that, said Councillor Fletcher, after further discussion had eventuated. "We are only getting a statement from him and are- not going any further," «aid the Acting-Mayor. Councillor Fletcher: After Inspector Fuller makes his answer to these statements that have got into the public I press that ought to finish it as far as to-night is Concerned ; but tho council will still have to deal wittr'tho matter 1 itself. CHARGES SHOULD BE CONTRO j VERTED IN THE OPEN. ' It was the- opinion of Councillor L. M'Kenzie that it was due to Inspector Fuller to allow him to defend his case. The council was now in a, position to hear hi& statement of defence, and if this were not allowed, to give his statements to the press. Tho speaker thought that they' would bo making a mistake and an' "error of judgment. They had no right to go into committee-, especially wheii tho other side of the case had been spread broadcast. Tho union had mado a charge. Whsn the court sat, the union was not in a position to appear. Therefore the thing must lapse. As the union could not substantiate the charge the court must lapse,

The Acting-Mayoi : I think that is all that is inquired. Mr. Herdman concurred. Let Inspector Fuller give his statement and the council give it. its consideration. The Acting-Mayor thought this procedure was quite allowable. He added that there was a later expansion of the charges against Inspector Fuller, which he thought should be kept confidential. Councillor Fletcher agreed, and it was decided to confine the investigation to the list of charges already published