MIRAMAR TRAMWAYS.

Evening Post, Volume LXVIII, Issue 48, 25 August 1904, Page 2

MIRAMAR TRAMWAYS.

MEETING OF RATEPAYERS. PROPOSALS CARRIED WITH ' OPPOSITION. Tho Exchange Hall was crowded last evening on the occasion of the public meetings to sanction or reject the referring to tho ratepayers of tho Miramar tramway proposals. The first proposal (Mirainar North route) is to lay n tramway to Mirnmar North, in exchange for a recreation 'ground there covering '48J acres, given by Miramnr Limited. The second proposal (Seatoun via Monorgnn block) is a further extonsion to Seatoun. in exchange for the Monorgan block (493 acres, including recreation grounds and building sites), given by Messrs. Crawford. The first meeting dealt with Miramnr North, the second with Sentoun. The Mayor, supported by a number of Councillors, presided. Iho proceedings were at times very lively, and most amnti ing. MIRAMAR NORTH. The Mayor stated that thero must bo nn initial loss for some years on the running of the lino. Ho wished to put the position fairly and without embellishment, and to estimate the loss as nenrly as possible. In not accepting the offer made two or three years ago of Iho whole of Miramar, the city lost h very groat bargain. This offer was not so good value ; it was for the ratepayers to say whether the value was sufh'oient to make the investment. It waa impossible to arrivo at the revenue, but it was fair — considering that' this was only half of the scheme, and that another proposal for the other half wa-s to be pu'l before thorn — to look at it in this way. The population of Seatoun was about 1000, and it was not unreasonable to suppose that 250 of these, or 1 in 4, would visit the city and return home overy day. That would give £6 6s coming and going every day. ( T What faro?") The fare would be 6d coming and going. ("What about the ferry?") They must take tho big days (football days) as well as the small ones, and taking into considoi ation the big days, it would be fair to reckon on another 250 visitors nor day all the year round, which would give another £6 ss. ("What about the steamers!") The two amounts would just about cover tho working expenses of the tramways. The loss would bb in itTtorest and sinking fund on tho borrowed money, which would amount to say £2000 a year. ("And depreciation.") Say thnt loss continued for ten years, that would make a loss of £20,000. Ho was not prepared to say what tho actual loss would be, but probably it would be near the mark to say that thero would bo a total loss of £15,000 on the running of the trams until such ttme as they reached the point of paying. ("What about interest on Clio loss!" "What about increase of population ?") Ho was giving the position as it presented itself to him — every one in tho room wai at liberty to take his own view of the position. In return, Miramar Limited offered the Council 48i acros of land. Tho Government's present valuation of this land for taxation purposes wns £7275. To pet at what the value of this land would bo after tho tramway was out thero, ho had taken both optimistic and pessimistic opinions, «nd had tried to tnko a fair middle course between the two. In this way he had arrived at a valuation of £450 an acre. "Rot.") If cut up, iix acres would be lost, leaving 42 acres valued at £18,900. Thai was what Miramar Limited offered as against running at an estimated loss of £15,000.' But th« tramways would still be the ratepayers at the end of the period of loss, and would then pay well. ( <f W)iiit about wear and tear?")' >A rate of id in the £ would cover Interest «nd sinking fund on tho required loan of £34,500. Up moved : That the meeting approve the proposal to borrow £34,600 to oon« struct h tramway extension to Mirnmar North pursuant to' the provisions of tho Wellington Oity Recreation Ground Act 1903." City Councillor Deviue seconded the motion. COUNCILLORS' PERSONAL INTERESTS ATTACKED. ' ' City Councillor M'Laxen said he had hoard that some members of the City Council were pecuniarily interested in lands through which it was proposed to take tho tramway. He folt it his duty, though a painful one, to ask his fellowCouncillori individually ahd collectively, if any of them occupied this position. City Councillor Batfber replied that he had stated at a City Council meeting that ho was an interested party, and Councillor M'Laren knew this. He had property at Seatoun, and for that reason had not intended to speak at the, present meeting. Mr. F. London asked' how many Uity Councillors were interested. The Mayor replied ilwit he did not know ; lie had heard some Councillors say they were interested. Mr. D. M. Luckio alluded to the city's lost opportunities in tho past, particularly Mr. H. 1). Bell's proposal to get Miramar /or £36,000. Mr. Loudon woe just about ofl wide awake a* any man in Wellington, and should not char go people with personal interest in a question which concerned not their personal interest, but the public at laigo, especially now, when we were seeking to obtain a shred of what we might have got had tho Oity Council been wise. Mr. M'Alpino asked if it was true that seven City Councillors were interested in Miramar, immediately or through their friends. He did not insinuate, but wished to know. A voice : It is for the ratepayers to take the matter out of the Council's h.uuia, and use their own judgment. City Councillor Luke, while objecting to being catechised by another Councillor boforo a public meeting, stated that neither he, nor his family, nor their business had a penny piece in Miramar. Nor had he come to the meeting to funk the question — which it had ueen stated Councillors would do. He was going to vote for this extension to Miramnr. Ho did not come on such an occasion to say whether he wns interested or not because if a Councillor wns not interested in some one of the many things that came before a Council, it would be impossible ior a Councillor to get a living. He blamed the Mayor to some extent for not having persevered more with the original Mirairmr scheme when it was before the public. After opposition in Parliament, it was decided at that time to abandon the measure But Parliament did not run New Zwiland altogether. (A voice : "What about RichnrdT") Never mind about Richard. After Parliament's opposition, he moved in tho Council to obtain a further option from Messrs. Crawford, but only Councillor Barbor helped him. Nowhere outeido Miramsr would the Council get «o gr^at a spread of flat land. % Mr. Pinlay M'Lcod snid this was not a scheme prepared by the Council, but nn offer by landowners and speculators to the Council. If it wns an offer of <.o much land for so much money, it would bo on<« thing. But it was an offer of land for tramways, and they did not know how much the dfamwttys would cost — they had only estimate. He did not see how the Council could support the proposal in such conditions, ofcpjclullv us the land to be benefited was in the ifutt County, and the OouiHl Imtt nlrendy refused to do work wit..iii the city ' DRAINAGE OF THE GROUND. Mr. W. Joiininga wml ho had been informed that it would cost JD'/OOtf to l«y out and din in tlw 48i acres, or 42 acres', at Miramar North.

The Mnyor : Tho estimate for draining nnd laying out the recreation ground is £2000. Air. Jennings b kited thul "tho syndicate" hnd bought) its lnnd for £17,000, had sold three-fifths of it for £5000 more than the purchnso price, nnd now olfered tho 184 acres, which should renlly bo given to the City for nothing. If Minimar and Seatoun wanted to come in, let them do na Mclrnpo had done — amalgamate first with the city, and then help to bear tho cost of tho trumii. If there was a loss, let them pay their shnro pro rntn. (Repetition of remarks, nnd derisionSuggestion of time limit, of two minutes). Another speaker thought that if interest in the gasworks mnde Councillor Nathan le&ign, Mirnmar interests should make other Councillors resign. Mr. W. Osborno asked why Councillor M'Laren did not suggest, when the greater question of city tramwnys was before the Council, that all Councillors who owned city property Should resign. The Mayor : Councilor M'Laren wns not then a member of the Council. Councillor M'Laren objected to privately owned residential sections being allowed to abut on the proposed recreation ground. With their present financial burdens, ratepayers should hesitate to approve the proposal. They could get a good recreation ground at Duppu-strect for £7500. ("How large?") It would be twenty acres altogether, and a good park could be made, of some twelve aoree. A time-limit of two minutes was adopted. Mr. F. Loudon considered this the most extraordinary proposal ever before the city. ("Except Island Bay.") The names of five Councillors were on the share-list in his hand. Theso modest gentlemen naked the city to go in for what me Mayor snid would not pay. RUGBY HAS A SAY. Dr. Newman, who spoko as President of the Wellington Rugby Union, said they had ton playing grounds for 300 footballers, and moro coming on. Duppn&treet was not good enough, and this was the lnst chance. If they neglected this, what kind of a recreation ground would the Mayor ten yeavs henco have to offer? Mr. T. Oit spoke amid much interruption. Mr. Townsend 6nid ho had figures from a well-known contractor who was willing to undertake tho work for considerably less than the Council's estimate. Tho figures showed that the widening of the cutting could be done for £3/5, instead of £1000. The original cost of the wholo of this cutting, with the culvert on tiie other skle, was £1300. The Mayor said it would be quito impossiblo to got Councillors who&e friends were not interested in something. Ho had friends interested in Miramar, but they would get no more from him than the man who was no friend. The valuo of the laud given by the syndicate would, after the lino was competed, be mote than half the first cost of the work. Ho did not know who was the philosopher or guide who had given figures to Mr. Townsend, but ho thought he had seen figures prepared by the snine gentloman, and in ono item alone the Government — they hnd hnd some experience with the Government I—would1 — would never n-llmv him to put down the weight of rails he suggested. That item alone showed thnt that gontlemnn know very little of what ho was talking about. Tho cutting might ho widened sft or 6ft for £360, but to do the fhine properly it would have to be widened dv a width equnl to its present width, nnd £1000 was not an overestimate for that. •' Tho motion was then put to a show of hands, and carried. Tho Mayor counted the votes nt 76 (or, 61 against. SEATOUN EXTENSION. The Mayor moved : " That tho mooting approve tho borrowing of £^6,500 for tho purpose of constructing an extension of the tramway through Miramar flat to Suatoun, provided the offers by Mcssm Crawford Bro«. are substantiated, and satisfactory arrangements made with tho Sontoun Road Board or their successors." The mover said the incomo of this line wns arrived nt practically on the sanw basis as in the case of Mirnmar North. Throe two proposal wero involved ono in tho other ; they ought to support tho two, if they supported one. With 250 resident pns»engers and 250 visiting passengers a d*y, they would in the same way recover the working expenses of the line. On tho same lines, with £2000 yearly low* in interest and sinking fund, it would be not unfair to say that the probable total loss would be £15,000. It was proposed - that of the 493 acres (Monorgnn Block), 40 acres in nnd about the Chinamen's gardens should bo aot aside for ornamental gardens and rocreiv tion ground, at a cost of £2000 for draining and laying off. If they wanted to sell or dispose of the land at once, it wns right and propor that they should know that probably 200 acres could be cut up for lease or salo. In cutting up this, it would take something like £5000 for roads of good formation, nnd thb total outlay to deal with this lnnd would be about £7000, on which tho interest would be £315 a year. They were not asking for that amount at this stage, but some day it might have to be asked for. What vnluo did the 493 acres represent against tho i mining loss? The present Government valuntion of the whole area for taxation purpo&os wrnt £16,370. Taking a mean betweon peshimistic and optimistic views of what tho vnlue would be after the tramway waa built, he thought there would bo — 100 acros, worth £400 £40,000 100 acros, worth £150 15,000 200 acres, worth £100 20,000 400 acres, worth £75,000 This would leave another 60 acres at all ovents to come and go with. He advooated sotting asido at least 50 acre* for a otnifitury. The ratepayers would have tho trumway us well as the land, which would increase in value with years and population. An Act hnd been pnssed exempting tho City Council's property from rating by tho Soatoun Rond Board in respect of Mini nut r North, but a similar Bill in respect of the Seittoun extension had not yet- been Mussed, though ho had no doubt that they would get it. In this mutter the Road Board had met the Council fnirly well, and it had been agreed between them that tho lino should run for twenty years without rent, fee, or rates, nnd no doubt before thnt time expired Seatoun would be part of the city. He could not estimmto tho viwiio of the Inrge amount of valuabk gravel and metal. To get to it would mean a further extension nt a probable cost of £3600, and haulage would cost something like 2s 6d a yard. One could have wished that thp present proposals had come when more of tho city brnmwnys had been running. Thoy i Mould then have had a better idea of whnt tramways are, nnd whnt they menn to tho population ns a wholo. City Councillor Devine, in seconding the motion, replied to those who had objected to the position of himself and other councillors in being Miramar (shareholders. In tho course, of a iwnguiy ui.vcussion, Mr. W. Oaborno stated that ho owned two sections between the Miramar North recreation ground and the Sentoun lnnd, nnd those sections wero valued by the Government nt £600 nn Acre. Oity Councillor Evans considered that what they wore going on wns prospective values. The rntepuyers were asked to do in a corporate capacity whnt ho believed in their private capacity they would not do.

In conclusion, the Mnyor touched on the fact that the Sbntoun exterinofi etitinvitew wore dependent on the Miramar North estimates nnd on the adoption of tho latter. The Mayor slated that in the event of Mimmar North not being carried thero wos a hiatus in the Seatoun extension that would lequno about £6000 Therefore, tho City Council in its wisdom might put the two proposals as one. instead of separately — it resorved the right to do that. On a 'show of hands, the Mayor read the voting as 75 for, 40 against. The motion was therefore curried. The Mayor snid the poll would betaken in due cqurse. Tho Mayor's estimate of 500 fares dnily on tho Miramnr North line, and of 600 fares daily on the Seatoun linej is worked out on the basis of a passenger paying 6d return (or 3d ench way) over ench of tho two lines. This gives £12 10b daily on each line, ov > £25 on both. The running expenses nro also estimnted nt £12 10s on ench line, or £25 on both. This makes a total fare to Seatoun over tho two lines of Is roturn.