THE BANK CRISIS.

Evening Post, Volume L, Issue 54, 31 August 1895, Page 4

THE BANK CRISIS.

ANOTHEB ALL-NIGHT BITTING. SOME EXCITING SCENES. i [ On the House, meeting at 2.30 p.m. yeßterl day, and going into Committee on the Bank of New Zealand and Banking Bill, Mr. G. W. Bussell moved to amend the title by insertion o£ the word " State " before "Banking" in the short title, "Ihe Bank of New Zealand and Bunb'ng Ac^ 1595." Tbis was with a view to making lb B*nk a State Bank, .Messrs. Duthie, Tannor, Collins, anNewman supported the amendment - The Premier considered tbe amondmen' oat of order, as amending nn appropriation bat the Chairman (Mr. Guinnera) ruled tha> Vie amendment was permissible, though, shonld it be carried, a subsequent hmend meat to alter the appropriation would be Out of order. Mr. T. Mackenzie and Mr. O'Eegan regarded a State Bank of Advanoe as a souroe of danger, but Mr. G. Hutchison considered it would not be worse than the present proposals. Mr. Carnoroes thought a State Bank would be the molt stupendous engine of polltioal corruption. r Mr. J. W. Kellj considered this would not be 10 if commercial advances were barred. The amendment was lost by 45 to 17. The division was as follows : — Noes, 45.— BeU, Buddo, Cadman, Carnoross, Carnell, Carroll, Duncan, Duthie. Flatman, Fraser, Graham, Green, Harris, Heke, Houston, W. Kelly, Lang, Lawry, T. Mackenzie, Mackintosh, Massey, M'Gnire, M'Gowan, J. M'Kenzie, B. M'Kenzie, M'Laohlan, M'Nab, Meredith, Mitohelson, Mills, Montgom*ry,Newman, Farata, Pere, Finkerton, Pirani, W. B. Btissell, Saunders, Seddon, bteward, E. Thompson, T. Thompson, Ward, Willis, Wilson. Ay«s, 17. — Buiok, Collins, • Crow ther, Eamshaw, Hall, Hall-Jones, G. Hutohißon, W. Hutohison. Joyce, J. W. Kelly, Millar, 'Morrison, O'Eegan, G. W. Bussell, G. J. Smith, Stout, Tanner. Mr. BeU moved to delete the words '■' and Banking," to prevent the amalgamation olanae and the provision for note proclamation being inolnded in this instead of a separate BUI. The two things should, not be mixed up. The Treasurer said the Law Officers considered the full title necessary. The amendment was lost on the voioea. Considerable disonssion arose on clause 4, proposing that the oolony should take .£500,000 of preferred shares. In reply to questions, the Treasurer said that any loss or profit arising from the bonds floating at premium or disoonnt would go to the Bank. A motion by Mr. G. Hutchison to strike out ".£500,000" was lost by-38 to 22. The division was as follows : — For the clause, 38 — Buddo, Cadman, Camoross, Carnell, Collins, Duncan, Flatman, Fruer, Green, Hall, Harris, Hogg, Houston, W. Kelly, Lawry, Mackintosh, Maslin, M'Gowan, J. M'Kanzie, B. M'Kenzie, M'Laohlan, Meredith, Millar, Mills, Mont, gomery, Morrison, Parata, Pere, Pinkerton, G. W. Bussell, W. B. Bussell, Seddon, E. M. Smith, Stout, Tanner, T. Thompson, Ward, Willis. Against, 22— Buiok, Crowther, Eamshaw, Graham, Hall-Jones, Heke, G. Hutohison, W. Hutohison, Joyce, J. W. Kelly, Lang, T. Mackenzie, Massey, M'Nab, Mitahelson, Newman, O'Eegan, G. J. Smith, Steward Te Ao, B. Thompson, Wilson. Pairs— For the amendment: Duthie, Allen, M'Guire. Against the amendment : Beeves, Carroll, Stevens. At olanse 7, providing for the issue of pre. ferred shares to the oolony, the proviso was added, " provided that any premium received by the sale of such debentures, stock, and seouritiea, shall be set aside as a reserve fund for the Bank of New Zealand, and inTested accordingly." Mr. G. W. Bussell moved to emend olause 8, which provided that the Bank might repurchase preferred" shares at their nominal price, as follows :—" Snob preference shares shall oontinue the property of Her Majesty until otherwise ordered by Parliament." This was with the objeot of securing to the State any premium on the shares which might aoorue from the improved position of the Bank. On resuming at 7.30 p.m., Mr. B. Thompaon considered the amendment shonld be carried. The present shareholders would probably be wiped out, and probably a taw speculators wonld reap any advantage whioh might arise from reserving the right of these shares to shareholders. | The Premier supported the olause as it stood Afforded the State an opportunity of getting some of its money baok before the end of the ten years. Sir Robert Stout said the olause had been put in the report at his suggestion, as he did not approve of the State being mixed np • In a commercial Bank, and so provided for it getting rid of its liability as soon as possible. If the shareholders were not given the hope provided in the olause they would probably be unable to pay their calls. The-Treasnrer suggested as a compromise that the term within which the Bank might repurchase the prefened shares be limited to six years from issue, and the oliuse was amended accordingly. Dr. Newman suggested some protection for the smaller Shareholders, and the Treasurer thought that to prevent syndicates purchasing Urge amounts of shares, the right of rcpurohaßß of each shareholder be limited to ten sharfeß when clause 13 was reached. Clause 8 was added to as follows on the motion of Mr. Montgomery :— " All moneys received on such repurchase shall be paid to the Publio Trustee, and applied by him to the redemption* when due of the debentures issued originally for the purchase of the shares." At clause 10— authorising the directors, upon the requisition of the Realisation Board, to call np the reserve capital on ordinary shares for the redemption of debentures issued by the Board ; a Beceiver to be appointed in default — Mr. Duthie moved to Btrike out the olause as prejudicial to the shareholders and injurious to the Bank. The motion to strike out the olause was lost by 57 to 7. The olause was amended to place the power of initiative in the hands of the Colonial Treasurer instead of the Kealis- , ation Board, and to provide that in the event of the directors failing to make tbe call the Eealiß&tion Board might make and collect it. The provision as to Beeoeiver was struck out, the Assets Board and Treasurer being substituted. Clause 15, providing for the appointment of a director by tne Government, war amended by Captain Bussell to limit the term of auoh direotor to three years. The olause w»s farther amended, on the motion of Mr. B. M'Kenzie, to provide that no president, manager, or direotor of any other bank might be eligible for appoint-ment-ns direotor of the Bank of New Zealand under tfiia olause. Mr. G. Hutohison moved to amend olause 19, fixing the price at which the assets " should be taken over by the Bealisatioc Board at .£2,731,706, by substituting the latest ascertained value, £1,879,000. The Treasurer opposed the amendment, «s it *fj not possible to ascertain the exact ralue, and the oolony was not asked to guarantee a bogus value, but if the Realisation Board did not guarantee the two million? there would be a huge deficit. Sir Robert Stout said that if the value were reduced in the Bill from the book to the actual value there would be no guarantee of tbe difference to the Bank. The amendment was lost by 40 to 19. After the supper adjournment, the Treasurer moved to report progress, in order to move the suspension of the Standing Orders, so that the House might sit on Saturday. The Premier said if the Bill were put throngh Committee he would adjourn the House till 10 a.m to take the third reading. There was a good deal of opposition to the motion, and as the Speaker was consulted meantime, and had intimated to the Premier that the House might on its rising adjourn till any hour on Saturday, the Treasurer withdrew his motion. Clause 26, setting out the securities for the deficiency, received a farther subsection adding the seourity of my reserve fnnd set aside out of net profits. Clause 28, dealing with the Assets Bealisatiou Board, was amended on the motion of Mr. Buddo by limiting tbe term of office of members to three years instead of till the estates were disposed of, the amendment being carried by 30 to 27. At olanse 31, providing that the joint 'salaries of the three members of the Board should not exceed .£l5OO, Mr. T. Mackenzie moved to delete the .£5OO with a view to limiting the amount to .£lOOO. The amendment was carried by 30 to 29, the division being as follows : - For reduotion, 30.— 8e11, Bnddo, Bniok, Oamoross, Crowther, Farnehaw, Flatman, Fraser, Graham, Green, Heke.G. Hutchison W. Hutohison, W. Kelly, Lang, T. Mackenzie, Maslin, Massey, M'Gowan, B M'Kenzie, M'Laohlw, Meredith, Newman, O'fiegan, Pirani, Saunders, G. J. Smith, Tauter, B. Thompson, Wilton. £ gainst reduction, 29.— Cadman, Carnell, ■« Carroll, Collins, Duncan, Hall-Jones, Harris, Hogg, Houston, Lawry, J. M'Kenzie, M'Nab, Millar, Mills, Mitchelson, Montgomery, Morrison, Parata, Pere, Pinkerton, Beeves, G. W. Bussell, Seddon, E. M. Smith, Stevens, Steward, Stout, T. Thompson, Ward. The Treasurer expressed regret at the action of the Committee, and moved that the amount be .£1450. It would be a great miltike to reduce the salaries of a Board whioh had to control two millions of money and 800 employe's. If they wanted good men P* y * f " r run for •om'ces. The Minuter for Lands said that the sort of men they must get were busy men sow in the servioe of other institutions and •ompanies, and if they did not give a proper ■alary they oould not seoure their services for a term of three years. Mr. Pirani considered this absurd. These men were wanted to tell land, yet the Minlater did not give his Commissioners of Crown Lands, who did such duties, the saU.nes he now said were necessary. Ministers w«e getting very extravagant in tbe matter of salaries. The best work was not done by th« high aalaned men, but by some low salaried men under them. The Minister for Lands said the decision of the House was absurd. They could not get the right men for the work for the money. ' Messrs. T. Mackenzie, Flatman, M'Laohlan, Bnddo, and others considered a thousand between the three ample Kone of the farmer* of the oolony cot suoh a. sum Sir Bobert Stout said .£l5OO was necessary, but if they oould not get it, he suggested a* • oompromise .£1250. -This would give JB9OO for the Chairman, and .£175 a year for •aoh of the others. This was met with orics of " No." The Premier said that cheap labour aqght mean dear in the end. They must par men adequately if they did not endanger their paying themselves. Mr. Flatman eaid that the low salaried man was not the thief. The biggest wages man and the most moneyed men had proved the biggest tbisves in New Zealand. Messrs. Hall- Jones and G W. Bussell considered better salaries than .£lOOO would pro-

He neoessary , and Mr. Mitohelson Mud that F the colony did not get good men and pay ! hem adeqnate salaries it might involve leavy loss in the long run. Mr. Bell and Dr. .Newman supported tho eduction. As there was evidently no ohanoe of •etting the olanse through, the Treasurer Accepted the reduction, though he intimated hat he might yet take another course, an innonnoement received with jeers. Bapid progress was then made to clauso 16, providing power to purohase other tanking business, and repealing section 3 ol ;he Banking Act of 1b94. which prohibited imalgamatiim with the Colonial Bank with >nt the consent 6f P.i.rii iment. Mr. G. W. I.uaaell morod toitrike out tho repeal of peotion 3. The Premier said members mnst not bo led away by the reckless statements inado respecting the Colonial Treasnrer in connection with another banking institution. '1 her.was tbe protection of the Directors, who had had bister experience in the washing-up ol the Globo assets, and there waß the Govern, ment to see thit a wrong price was not paid for any banking business, and there was the Treasurer, who had his reputation at stake. Cruel snggestions had been made aa to tho Treasurer in this matter, entirely without foundation. The purohase of additional business was an essential part of the BQheme, and if the House took away this p"ower the whole floheme would be injure I and its sucoess endangered. The Colonial Bank was now bound by agreement to have a thind of the colony's remittances to London. The estimate put down of additional earning at .£30,000 was bedrook, and did not inolnde the profit on the remittances. It should be They provided that the Bank must pay a year of profit, and if the House took away the .£30,000 it would be a very serious thing, and they would have to hesitate before they took the responsibility. The troubles of the banks in New Zealand had been oansed largely by excessive bompetition and the efforts to get business from eaoh other. He knew thousands to be loßt by tanks in buyins gold at £A 2s 6d, for iustanoe, when its market value was M, bo as to get all the gold -buying business. There were too many banks in the colony. They would be casting a serious reflection on the directors and the Government in striking this clause out. The whole sum involved was not more than ,£300,000. Mr. O' Regan said that while it waß of paramount importance that they should provide against taking over valueless assets, they should Bupport the olanse as lesseniog ruinous competition. Mr. Fraser said that though he went on the Committee opposed to the amalgamation with the Colonial Bank, tbe evidence given there showed that there were now too many banks, and the competition led to the taking of unsatisfactory business The Committee was convinced that without this acquisition of the busineßs of some other bank the Bank of New Zealand could not show a profit, In past years the Bank had to lose good accounts because it conld not carry them on ; now it was in a position to carry them on it could not get them. Dr. Newman said every effort was being made to Bell the Colonial Bank to the oolony. The President of the Bank of New Zealand was an ex-offiaer of the Colonial Bank, .and the Chairman of the Colonial Bank was a member of tbe Committee, and so had to deoide to buy and sell his own Bank. Captain Bussell said the Bill hinged very materially on the amalgamation or purohase of the Colonial Bank. The increased earning power of the Bank was the basis upon whiol it was hoped that the profits would arise tc make up the deficiency and provide future income. Dr. Newman had referred to the oonneotion of the President with the Colonial Bank. The President of the Bank of New Zealand would, they might reasonably assume, do his duty to the institution fa< now served. (Applause.) Hia position was responsible and honourable, and from the very lowest point of view his interests were to do the best for the Bank of New Zealand. He would go most sorupnlonsly into anj business before he took it over. Thej should authorise the directors to effect tbit purohase. (Mr. Crowther — " Then let then oome to Parliament.") He did not valnc the opinion of Parliament on any financial Bnbjeot, and would not take' it an] more than that of Ministers. They had neither the finanoial skill nor the time They must get good officers and direotori and place reliance in them, and they had the Auditor to enquire into every auoount anc eertifjr to it. Mr. Stevens considered the purchase should require the ratification of Parlia ment. Mr. Buddo considered they should puttht Bank of New Zealand on its feet first before they took up the Colonial. What gooc would it be to take over the .£103,849 ol landed property of the Colonial Bank? Ii would be worthless to them. What did thej want of an institution with .£400,000 o! oapital? Mr. T. Mackenzie said that members whe voted for the second reading of the Bill, at Mr. Buddo had, oould not consistent^ vote to destroy the fabric upon wbioh th< scheme was based. The Colonial Bank 1 ! property was valuable, and the amalgamation of the two properties was desirable, anc would enable the new Bank to select iti bnsinesß After a number of members had expressed disapproval of amalgamation, the Colonial Treasurer, referring to a statement by Mr £. Thompson that the Bill showed the hand of the Hon. Geo. M'Lean in every clause said Mr. M'Lean never saw the Bill, and iti contents were entirely unknown to him. Ab tc himself, no member of the House oc the com mittee— (hear, hear)— conld cay he had ap proaobed them as to this matter. (Ap plause.) The Bank of New Zealand ovei 18 months ago— the then directorate— reoog nised that it was absolutely imperative thai it should obtain further earning power and overtures were made to another Bank not the Colonial, for the purchase of its business. "Unfortunately those overtures wore not successful, but the same causeß whiot actuated the late directorate lod tbe present directorate and the Committee to recommend a purohase. If they did take tbe Colonial Bank it had some .£500,000 of coin and oasb balances. The coin of the selling Bank would be the coin used in making the purchase. Probably some actual coin of the Hank of Now Zealand would be required, but no large sum, assuming that it was decided to give effect to the proposal. The interests of the Bank of New Zealand would require to be specially conserved. No directors of the Bank ofjiew Zealand would dare to take over any account unless it was undoubtedly a good one. 'lhe selling institution would have to provide for all its bad and doubtful accounts before a purchase wac made. A proposal such as tliis shonld not be assented to, in hi* opinion, without the consent of Parliament. Everyone wae anxious to protect himself and the oountry from any wrong being done. Though suggesting that the assent of Parliament should be requited, if any membor supposed that the matter could be kept hanging over any institution for 12 months, it was wholly impracticable. No institution could afford to let it be known that it was carrying on negotiations for Buoh a period. The amalgamation proposals of last year emanated from the Bank of New Zealand, not from the Government. They were pressed by Mr. John Murray in the interests of the Bank of "New Zealand, not of the Colonial Bank or the Government, and the negotiations arrived then at a point which, in view of what ooourred after, it was to be regretted they had arrived at. The present scheme was dependent upon the oarrying out of the purchase provision, and should that not be assented to the scheme would have to be reconsidered. What would have to be done if members wanted to safeguard the interests of the oolony would be foe ax amendment to be moved, which would enable members to feel the tonse of security they apparently sought. Ho suggested an amendment providing that the oontraot foi purchase be subjeot to the approval of Parliament, approval to be obtained by the laying of the proposed oontraot on the tables oi both Houses, when, should no resolution disapproving of the oontraot be passed by either House, it be given effeot to. Mr. Bell suggested that perhaps the oontraot might be put on the table in the last days of Parliament. The Treasurer said no such trick wonld be attempted. Mr. G. W. Bussell said the amendment would not affeot his amendment, which he would press to tbe ultimate issue. If the amendment was altered to read that the contraot should not be ratified unless a motion was passed approving of it by the House that would put the position plainly. Otherwise they did not know where they were. (Applause from Government members.) The revenue antioipated was not of such urgency as Ministers represented, ' for it was only a part of £138.000 of additional profit anticipated. There was a certain risk in taking over the business of the Colonial Bank, whioh evidently would have to write off much of its oapital in view of the present price of its shares. Mr. Crowther condemned the proposals, which apparently meant the propping up of another Bank. The amendment ooncooted by the Treasurer and the Premier was simply a trap and meant "Let us pass it over to-night, and on a future occasion we may be more suooessfnl." After hearing the Btatement of tbe Treasurer they oould only come to the oonqjusion that there was more in the rumouri they had heard everywhere of late than they imagined. The Premier regretted the speeoh of Mr. Crowther. The Government was endeavouring to undo the wrongs done by former directors who lived in Auokland. (Mr Bell— "Don't open up that, or you will bring us to our feet again.") ]f inuendos were made be must meet them. They mnst have the amalgamation, otherwise their legislation would be ineffective, as it would merely increase the charges on the Bank of New Zealand without inoreuing its earning power to meet them. Mr. Bell' suggested that the contract should be ratified, unless notioe of motion be given disapproving of it within ten days of its being laid on the table. Mr. Enrnghaw said the history of the intrigue between the Colonial Bank and the Bank of New Zealand had yet to be written. • The Treasurer had said last year that he disapproved amalgamation, but this "purohase" was but a trick of expression. They were asked to bolster up another Bank in as wretched a condition as tbe Bank of New Zealand. They were now asked to affirm the purchase of the Colonial Bank, and then to disavow it if they oould. This was another iustanoe of the evil of having the Chairman of tbe Colonial Bank on the Committee That Committee was formed in the interests of the ColonUl Bank. After further diaousaion, Mr. Steward said the Treasurer'! amendment would be of no value. a« under the >reaent Standing Order* no member oould bring on a motion of disapproval. The Treasurer promised that if the amendment was passed and a motion wm tabled by any member disapproving of the contraot an ctpportuuitiy .would be given of oonaidertag It. it M £-,?' Thompson .aid »«•* disoussing i the BUI so long they found it was but waste paper if, olause 86 were not passed. The whole thing wai humbug Last year he followed Mtnittars. Now he fonad the in- ! formation they gave him waa false, and that ' Ministers were in the hands of men muoh

leverer than themselves. The estimates ;iven could never be realised. The whole >roposals were artfully contrived rubbish to lumbug the House. The whole scheme had jeen prepared by gentlemen personally nterested before members o^me to Wel'.ing:on at all. Dozens of business men in Welington knew it weeks ago. He waa now told if clause 36 was not passed, the whole Bill was to be thrown out in another place, out if the olauae was passed the Ministry md its supporters would have to answer to the country for it. Mr. Flatman said the earnii g power of the Co'onial Bank h^d been written down by the Committed from w£45,000 to £30,000 as a fafeguard. Mr. Buddo enid that no enne man could imagine that tie B^nk of .New Zealand could purohnse a bank having- an earning power of j830,' 00 a->ear without paying for it, and .£30,000 a-} car . capitalised would be .£750,000. The Bank had no need for any more money Its troubles had arisen from a plethora of money. Mr. Bell Baid the Treasurer's suggested amendment simply gave effect to the legislation of 1891, whioh provided that no amalgamation or purohase oould take place without the oonßent of Parliament. There were cries of " No, no," and Mr. Graham oalled, "It doesn't; if it did it would be all right." Mr. Bußsell's amendment was lost by 31 to 24. The following is the division Hat .— For the amendment, 24— 8e11, Buddo, Bniok, Carnoross, Ctowther, Earnshaw, Graham, Hall-Jones. Heke, W. Hutohison, W. ReUy, Lang, M'Nab, Meredith, Mitohelaon, Montgomery, B. M'Kenzie, G. W. Bussell, Saunders, G. J. Smith, Steward, Tanner, R. Thompson, Wilson. Against the amendment, 34 — Cadman, Carnell, Carroll, Collins, Duncan, Flatman, Fraser, Green, Hall, Harris, Hogg, Houston, J. W. Kelly, T. Mackenzie, Maslin, Massey, M'Gowan, J. M'Kenzie, M'Laohlan, Millar, MilU, Morrison, O' Regan, Parata, Pere, Pinkerton, Pirani, Beeves, W. B. Sussell, Seddon, K. M. Smith, Stevens, T. Thompson, Ward. The Hon. Mr. Steward moved an amendment in the fifth line, making the contraot aubjeot to the consent of Parliament first had or obtained and expressed by resolution or Act. , The Premier moved t, prior amendment in the second line, providing that the contraot should be "laid on the table of both Honsee whilst Parliament was in session, and unless within ten days a resolution disapproving of the contract is passed by cither House euoh oontraot shall be deemed to be approved by Parliament." Memberß of the House had a right to know what the conditions of purobase were, and to express their opinion npon it. He was not going to accept such an amendment as that of Mr. Steward, whiob required the passing of a Bill. Mr. Steward said it did not require the passing of a Bill. His motion simply said the matter should be brought down by way of resolution and passed affirmatively, while the amendment whioh the Treasurer had proposed required the carrying of a resolution negatively, whioh no member would be able to bring on. Mr. Bell asked if the Premier bad hoard from the Treasurer what he had agreed to t The Premier said that if any resolution was moved by a member disapproving the purchase, and the House expressed a desire to consider it, the contraot should- not be confirmed till opportunity had been given tc deoide it. The desire of member! would not be bnrked in the matter. . Mr. Bell pointed out that no merabei could bring on a motion, though Government oould. The Premier said he would make it 14 days, and give seven days thereafter foi the discussion of any motion of whioh notice might be given. Mr. Bell pointed out that this would have no effect, for no member could bring on s motion which the Government did not desire to have discussed. The Premier repudiated any intention oi blocking suoh a motion. No Government with any Belf-reepeot would prevent snoh i motion coming on. He would add to hii amendment that if notice of motion wai given dissenting from the contraot within I. days from its being laid on the table, or fom days thereafter, it would forthwith be placet at the head of the Order Paper. Mr. Heke was called to order for speaking on the general question in speaking to t motion that the Chairman leave the chair after Mr. Joyce had twice oalled him U order for repetition. Messrs. G. J. Smith, Hall-Jones, Bell, B M'Kenzie, and others questioned this ruling as it "was a Berious interference with thi liberty of speeoh of memberß who wen aooußtomed to speak on the whole eubjec when they moved that the Chairman leav< the ohair. Mr. Joyoe said his ruling was under the new Standing Orders, whioh reqnired i speaker on suoh a motion to confine himsel: to giving reasons for the motion. Mr. M^ab said the matter was a ver: serious one, and he \lould move that pro gress be reported to submit the ruling to the Speaker. Mr. Earnsbaw said the original ruling fo: tediouß repetition waß correct, but not thi subsequent ruling, as members were in tb< habit of traversing the whole subjeot oi snoh a motion. Mr. Heke'a motion having been put ant lost on the voices, Mr. M'Nab moved his motion. The Premier begged him to withdraw it as it would simply mean an aorimonioci debate in the House. Mr. T. Mackenzie, amidst general ap plause, said they must have this matteo settled at once. They were already gaggei and bound so that it was little use thei; being in Parliament. Mr. G. W. Bußsell desired to know b; what authority Mr. Joyoe was acting ai Chairman of Committees. Who settled wh< was to act as Chairman ? The Premier said that was settle' by thi fact that Mr Joyce was in the oh .ir. H( had given his ruling, and must be obeyed The opposition oame from opponents of th< Bill. (Cries o£ "No."), If Mr. M'Nal would withdraw his motion ho would giv< him an opportunity later on. (Cries of 01 no," and " Ton won'tldo it.") He askec members to oppose the motion if Mr. M'Mat persisted in it. Mr. M'Nab said the insinuation of the Premier that he had moved his raotioi through opposition to the Bill, was unworthy of the position of Leader of the Honse Mr. G. J. Smith said that under the ne\i Standing Orders, if there was any eudder disorder in Committee, the Speaker took the ohair without question. The Premier— There is no disorder. Mr. Smith said there would be if the Pre< mier attempted to force his will on the House. It was no use the Premier inter rupting him, as he would gain nothing by it The Premier should remember his position. Mr. Earnshaw said the matter was of th< greatest importance, becanse it was the Premier himself who had instigated Mr. Joyoe's ruling, though no member had evei used the form he now attacked oftener thai the Premier. Mr. Duncan hoped the Premier wonld give way on this subjeot He had been 14 years in the House, and had never heard > more dangerouß ruling. The division on the motion resulted in a tie, 28 voting each way. Mr. Joyoe gave his casting-vote with the " Ayes," and vacated the chair, explaining to the Speaker the position. He had, he said, twice oautioned Mr. Heke for repetition. Mr. Heke then moved that the Chair, man leave the chair, and repeated the same words, and he had called him to order, as the remarks on suoh motion must be oonfined to reasons for the motion. Mr. M'Nab added to this explanation that Mr. Joyoo had ruled that a member must confine bis remarks to giving reasons why the Chairman should leave the ohair. Mr, Heke contended he could speak on the general question, as members had been in tiie habit of doing, but Mr. Joyoe ruled that he oould not speak on the general question. The Speaker said he was present during the inoident. It was well known that the Parliamentary system had been on its trial in various countries, and that it had been neoessary (not by anything done in this Honse), to pass rules to pnt down obstruction. In doing thi* rules had been adopted from other places and one of these was that to prevent constant repetition upon motions to leave the ohair. On former occasions he had held that the motion to leave the ohair permitted speakers to treat of the whole question, but this sew rule required that the discussion must be confined to reasons for the motion to leave the ohair, and not on the general question. It was the duty of the Chairman therefore to prevent repetition ot irrelevancy. The Chairman was justified and reqnired by the Standing Orders to enforce the rule in the present oase. He ruled the House again in Committee on the Bill. (Applause.) As Mr. Joyoe was returning to the ohair, Mr. G. W. iusaell asked by what authority Mr. Joyoe resumed the chair, ho not having been elected Chairman of Committees. Mr. Joyoe said by custom. Mr. Bnasell said the privileges of the House were being interfered with, and to test the question he moved that Mr. Steward take the Chair. This was met by ones pf " Order." _ Mr Bnsßell continued that from time to time last session, and for partioular purposes oerfain members had been placed in the Chair. (Uproar.) The Premier and others oried " Chair." Mr. Buseell — "I am not going to be bullied by the Premier." Mr. Flbtman, on a point of order, said that when there was a difference thoio must be two parties, but here it was one party (Mr. Bussell) against the Home. Mr. Steward aaked that he be not requested to take the ohair under the oiroumetanoes. Mr. Joyoe ruled Mr. Eussell's motion out of order. It was now 545 a.m. , and feeling had been running high, but the House got back to the Bill. Mr. B. Thompson said the oontraot for the purohase of the Colonial Bank wai already made out and agreed upon. The Premier and the Minister for Lands said they were assured on the beit authority that this was absolutely incorrect. No member of the Ministry bad knowledge of suoh a contract. Tho Premier'samendmentwaithen carried on the voices, providing that the oontraot lay on the table for a fortnight, and should a, motion of distent not be carried as above provided, it be ratified. Mr. Montgomery moved to reqnire that a resolution of assent be required before the onntraot; was ratified. This was lost by 38 to Between 6 and 7 a.m. there wu little talk, but a large number of amendments were put and rejeoted. At olsrue 46, Mr. B. M'Kenzie moved, for the protection of the rights of the ah»roholders, that the provision extending the President's power of veto to resolutions of the shareholders or anvfcomlnittee of them, be deleted. The motion wu lost on the voices A number of teohnioal amendment* were passed on the motion of the Treasurer. One provided that the Bank of England might still b) used under the Consolidated Stook Act in the oolony*s interests should it be found necessary. On the motion of tho Treasurer, a new ilause was added, providing that Patt 11. of :he Bank Note Issue Act, ISS3. be oontinnod n foroe till 2nd September, 1896, or, should Parliament not then be in session, till two

months after the beginning of the next ensuing Bitting of Parliament. Mi. Millar moved to amend the Bank Nota Issne Aot by providing that notes be paid in gold at any offioo of the Bank, and not merely at the offioe of issue. — 1 his was lost on the voioos. A pew olause providing that aooonnts bo laid on the table of Parliament was carried. Mr. Masaey moved, on behalf of Mr. Duthie, and ft was oarried, that no direotor of the Bank, the Estates Company, or the Realisation Board, or any offioiaL of these institutions, shall be allowed on overdraft from the Bank on any anoount whatever. The Premier and the Treasurer considered it a serions slight on the directors, and that it would prevent many men acting owing to the ramifications of their businesses. A motion waß moved on the part of Dr. Newman that the provisions of the Disqualification Act be applied to all appointments mode by the Crown either to the Bank or to the Realisation Board. The Treasurer .objected to this, and the Premier said it was monstrous. Working men in the Honae for 12 monthß after they left the House could not be employed on Government works. That was monstrous. They should learn to trust each other. Mr. Pirani having oommended the motion, the Premier said members should not be on Land Boards. Mr Montgomery said the Disqualification I Aot was an admirable one After the inoii dent of the Sergeant-at-arms The Premier, totta voce—" Ton had better hold your tongas over that." Mr. Q. W.Euaaell said the Premier talked olap-tiap. He had appointed an ex-member of the House in Chnstehurch to • Government billet. The Premier said Mr. BusseU showed grOBS ingratitude. Mr. Pirani said that on the Land Board he got 10s a day when on its business. If he vf »» not worth that let the Government get some one else. If the Premier was sincere, instead of talking olap-trap be would bring down a. Bill removing the disqualification of workin? men he affected to deplore. The Premier said he would not, and addressing Mr. M'Nab, who had also Bpoken, Baid if he liked to bring down a return hecould show how the lawyers in the House had managed to evade the Disqualification. Act. The olanße was lost by 31 to 19, the division being as follows : — For the motion, 19— Buiek, Collins, Earnshaw, Frasor, Graham, Green, Hall-Jones^ Heke, Lang, Maslin, Massey, M'Nab, Mitohelson, Montgomery, O'Hegan, Pirani, Q. W. Russell, G. J. Smith, B. Thompson. Against, 31 — Bnddo, Cadman, Carnoross, Carnell, Oowthor, Dunoan, Flatman, Hall, Harris, Hogg, Houston. J. W. Kelly, W. Kelly, Lawry, M'Gowan, J. M'Kenzie, B. M'Kenzie, M'Laohl&n, Meredith, Millar, Mills, Morrison, Farata, Pinkerton, Seddon, E. M. Smith, Stevens, Steward, Tanner, Ward, Thompson. Mr. J. W. Kelly explained that be was paired with Mr. Beeves, and, being left in. the Chamber, voted as Mr. Beeves would have done. Mr. G. J. Smith moved that neither the Bank nor the Estates Company shall, after the expiration of five years, carry on any trading business other than the business of banking, directly or indireotly. The Treasurer oonld not aooept the clause. The Premier said the Bank ran a tannery in opposition to one of which Mr. Smith was Seoretary, and he brought in this to compel the Bank to Bell their tannery to his company or to olose it. Mr. Smith, speaking with warmth, said the Premier had no right to refer to his private affairs. His reason for bringing his amendment had nothing to do with the firm with whioh he was oonneoted. Three millerß of Auckland and Canterbury had oomplained to him of the unfair competition of the Assets Company. If Mr. Seddon wished to go into private matters he could bring up matters which would make the Premier bend his head. Mr. Seddon— "You oan't do it." Mr. Smith— "loan." Mr. S eddon— " I challenge you to do it." Mr. Smith said he -would not submit to be browbeaten by a man who forgot the dignity due to his position to attack a new member of the House. The Minister for Lands considered this amendment would be very detrimental to the Estates Company. Mr. Collins considered the Premier's attaok on Mr. Smith a monstrous thing. It was unjustifiable and ungenerous. The Premier went a long way at times to strain tho loyalty of his followers— (Government members — "Hear, hear")— and if he persisted in his conduct he would alienate even the sympathy of his followers. The Premieiysaid he would do his duty to the House even at the risk of alienating Mr. Collins. Mr. Smith brought forward his motion at the instigation of rival trading concerns, and it was his dnty to oppose thiß, irrespective of anyone's feelings, and take the consequence. ' That was the position he had always held with honour in the House. If Mr. Collins preferred to take the oourse he spoke of he was at liberty to take it. Mr. Smith did not tell the House at whose instigation he brought his motion till he was aconsed. Mr. Tanner said the carrying on of trading concerns by banks had more than paralysed the oommerce of the oonntry. (The Premier — " Hear, hear.") Any honest man in trade was severely discounted, simply beoause he was honest. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Kuuell said the Premier was a selfmade man, and like many a self-made man would be better had he let out the oontraot. Mr. Smith moved a motion to carry out the report of the Committee, and for this was subjected to a personal attack by a Premier who forgot his position. Mr. M'Laohlan said the Premier* attaok was unwarrantable. Mr. Smith was a striotly honourable man. The Treasurer said there were other Globo Assets in the country" and he anggested that the motion apply to all banking institutions, and fix the term at say seven years.- That would preventanyinstitution getting possible Globo Assets looked up. He would look into it, and have suoh a olause inserted in another plaoe. On this understanding, Mr. Smith withdrew his motion. The Bill was reported from Committee at 8.30 a.m., and the House rose ti11 2.30 p.m., when the third reading was begun.