THE BANK BILL.

Evening Post, Volume L, Issue 53, 30 August 1895, Page 4

THE BANK BILL.

A BLOCK IN THR HOUSE. THE SECOND READING DEBATE. The Premier having moved for the bus pension of Standing Order SS yesterdaj afternoon to permit the Sank Bill being taken through all stages at one sitting, Mr. Bell opposed this, on the ground that tbe House was now in the position of the Government last year — that they were invited to give fnrther assistance upon information supplied by the Bank. Latt year that information proved incoi--root. Members acted on the word of Ministers with indecent haste, and a pretty me.ss they made of it. The proposals of the Committee would not suffice to put the Bank on a firm basis. If they had ventured to C'iot last year what was now admitted, would have been aooused of factious opposition. The House had ceased to be a deliberative assembly. Mr. T. Mackenzie also protested, and so did Dr. Newman, who said that the House had developed the ethics of a lunatic asylum. If they were discussing the definition of fanoy bread they wonld tako the utmost deliberation about it, but they would vote away the millions of the people in a few hours. The moat contemptible, unbusinesslike, miserable report ever presented to the House was that of the Committee. Mr; Duthie said Government wished to oreate a feeling of panio, and under it drive the House to what it wonld not do deliberately. There was no panio and no danger to the Bank, therefore no need for haste. He plaoed no reliance on the report of the Committee. If the Bank suspended, two or three houses might suspend, and a few weak storekeepers might go to the wall, but it was nonsense to say there wonld be any great crisis. Even the information given members waa unreliable. There was £50,000 error in the addition of one balanoe-sheet. They were asked to swallow a Bill taking over hundreds of properties to not one of . wbioh • value'w&s given. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Joyce opposed the suspension, as did Messrß. G. W. Bussell, Allen, R. Thompson, Graham, G,. Hutohison, Crowther, Duncan, and the Hon. Mr. Steward. The Hon. Mr. Larnaoh said he had Btrugglrd^all the morning without avail to comprehend the figures of the report, but there were so many mistakes in them that he could not understand them, and would uortainly oppose rushing them through. Mr. Pirani said the tables were full of mistakes. Mr. G. Hutohison considered the Bill should not go on till the value of the properties was given. In reply to Mr. Mitohelson, the Premier said he only desired to seoure the suspension of the Standing Orders to prevent two or three members setting up a Btonewall to obstruot the reasonable passage of the Bill. The Government had no desire to foroe the Bill through, and there was no intention to take the third reading that day. If the second reading finished before 10.30 p.m. . the Bill would be taken in Committee. 1 \ Sir Robert Stout considered they should * have gone on with the second reading in stead of moving for the suspension of the Standing Orders. Mr. Hske said the aotion of those who had opposed the Bill being foroed through last night was now justified. The Premier had referred to the Bank as a "patient." It was well he ahonld know what the complaint was. It was rapid consumption— oonsump tion of everything it could get. The bankruptcy of the Estates Company was largely due to the harassing legislation of the Government. The Colonial Treasurer explained that the balance-sheets as presented to the Committee were correct. The errors in the printed appendioes were typographical. At the estates were to be Bold, it would be in judicious to bring down a list of values. Mr. M'Guire said when Government wat selling land it gave values and this did nt harm. Mr.'M'Laohlan iJso said there war no secret about the value of the property and he would oppose the Bill going throngli till the values were given. Mr. Duncan disagreed with this. He con demned the proposed amalgamation with the Colonial Bank. ' Mr. M'Gowan considered the Estatei Company values shonld be given. The Premier, in reply, said there had been . no indication that Government meant U> foroe the measure through. All that was asked was to prevent a stonewall suoh at last night. If members rejeoted the motion the responsibility would not be with him. Messrs. G. Hutohieon.Heke.and B.Thompson had made up their minds to fight out the Bill to tbe bitter end. Mr. Bell would he knew be no party to that. Mr. Bell said he had only opposed on beinp told that it was intended to put the Bill through that day. The Premier Baid that no member of the Houae would publish valuations of properties he had for sale, especially when these values Were fixed dnring depression for a bed-rook balanoe sheet. Mr. Bell posed as the only righteous man in the Assembly, and he would do well to refrain from posing at a " superior person." The President of tbi Bank was a responsible officer, who did no 1 deserve Mr. Bell's slight. Dr. Newman oompared the House to a lunatic asylum, but he had so long been associated with thi i lunatics as to be tarred with the same brush. Mr. Duthie thought there would be nc disaster if the Bank closed. But there were 35,000 depositors whoso deposits would b< looked up. Ninety per cent, of the loca> bodies and the Education Boards banked with it, and there would be no money to paj wages and pay the teaohers if there was c olosurs. Then the Government moneys would be looked up, and it would be neces sary to raise immediately a million to oarrj on. Look at the ruin caused by the Bank orisia in Australia— the people bronght to want .in their old age. The direct loss to the State in New South Wales from the crisis was three millions, and a loan to tba< amonnt had to be raised. Victoria had similarly lost three millions of revenue, and had to put fresh taxes on to make it up. Then to the shareholders sudden liquidation ¦ would be ruin, and 75 per cent of these had bought their shares up to as high as .£2l. If members wanted returns they should have a return of the .persons who had foisted theii properties on the shareholders. It would be most interesting, and if he were a shareholder he wonld ask for it. Ho hod agreed with the Leader of the Opposition to iro on till 1 o'clock with the second reading, and he asked for the suspension of the Standing Orders, to prevent obstruction. The motion to suspend the Standing Order? was lost on the voioes, these being so palpably against the Government that the Premier did not venture on calling for a division. . As it -was now 4.50 p.m., and the Treasnrer was not ready to go on with the second reading, small Bills were taken. On the House resuming at 7.30, The Colonial Treasurer moved the second reading of the Bill. The causes of the trouble had been beyond the control of thoae now interested, and could scarcely be attributed to the Party now in power. They occurred years back, and primarily were over-Bpeonla-tion in land. The outcome had been the Globo Asset! Company, and the trouble to the Bank had resulted from its attachment When that oompany was first formed there should have been reconstruction. There was difference of opinion as to what was done last year, bnt the aotion then taken saved.the colony from a very serions disaster. The question waa now not one of tbe past but the present. The Bill meant that the country should accept further direot responaibilii* to the extent of £500,000 preferential (nares bearing 3J per cent , ranking next to the two millions guaranteed stook, and taking preference with that stook aftei the money ot depositors, whioh ranked first. Stook at 3} per cent, was to be issued to pay for the shares. In addition there was asecond call to the extent of £500,000. The reason for appointing a director instead of voting on the shares was that the country had not come to the stage when it should have a • State Bank. If yoteß were exercised proportioned to its interest, the State would have a preponderating voice, and this the Committee oonaidered was not desirable The Realisation Board did not mean the displacement of the Estates Company. That must be oontinued, on aooount of the indebtedness of £500,000 to English debenture holderß at 4 per cent. The Bealißation Board, so for as holding' the assets was oonoerned, would take tbe place of the Kstatf* Company. s Any realisations of the estater would be paid into a trust acconnt til the debenture-holders were paid off. The .2 f the es *»tes w«s put down at £1,879,000, and he wonld oirculate a list , of the Land Tax values of these properties. (Hear, hear.) The sales of the properties would go towards the reduction of the £2,734,000, reduoing the liability of the 0 <?i 0n ?:«,, A?" 08 * the apparent deficiency, £855,000, if it should exist at the end of aSJPSH?™' there was the 6e o° n <i °aU of £500,000, and a third oall if required of a similar amonnt. While the Bank was now lomng interest on the £1,850,000, in future iff must reoeive 3J per cent. on. it from the ' Realisation Board, amounting to £64,500 a - y^^J* 9 VobiMb earning powers of the ' 'Sf& t SS? n J? ra estim »ted by its offioers at ' £135,000. The second million would earn H ' ncr oent. more than now, making £1500; ' the colony s business in London was £14,000, I ' and t)?e saving in management would be I < £15,000. By purohase of other banking I business a further increase of £30,000 would / I lie assured. . The purchase could not be made c in shares, as they would in suoh case rank * after ail other shares. The Government and , the Committee was opposed to amalgamation <¦ ¥«MSS l7llJ|r neater «bare liability. The ( £30,000 was purposely a low estimate. The * reason for providing that the Bank could not 1 wind np was that the State might have a * voice in saying whether the institution J ¦hould go into liquidation. There was no * intention to make the President's term a c We term, as had been alleged. Addi- ' tional power of veto was given to the Presi- d aent over resolutions of the shareholders * The losses of the institution were owing to ?. remarkable otrounutanoes, and the proposals % took the sonroea of these lobsbs from the l Bank. TheroVa. then every prospect of * the Bank paying the profit estimated. The ? Mh Sl^& w ?"? <lre< luire to provide Jj «ufek * 2 23 4 ' 00 ? interest amounting to ti J»4,500, and working expenses. For the F ESMS 1 * y l*. M the e'ra^Sß of the proper. h Mi^tEw£* Tflr^ ed^' M8 Perannum. J iSfcJn *• he mantt ? el> °f the New Zealand d fSbFluBS 9 ' cism »teathat they would « realise £53,500 per annum, and the £50 000 M per annum tobe paid out of profits Vo'uW tt of £94,500. A. rise, of Id per lb in wool " alone meant an additional Income to the P 1 .Realisation Board of £12,000 per ann nm »» and other inoreasea i would naturally affect Wl the quoted -ralnes for the better. It wm Wl eUfflouK to devise a practicable scheme other la Sf S*^^* the Ooaimittee had adopted mi (Mr. G. W, BuaaeU-" Take it over.-") To d * dp that wpuld mean 12 millions of money. *• If they had the 12 millions he would be in P° favour of taking it, but they had not P° Th 4 Hon. Mr. Mitohelson, while not agree- ad fag with the findings of the Committee, oom- ™ plunented it upon its work and the Treasurer bn upon his ipeeob. The closing of the Bank cxi wojldbeaseriousthinafortheoolony. The p * £500,000 of '"preferred shares wouia bring P n Sh« retu S' T " e of £1,879,000 of m€ «>• estates waa based on the Land Tax T «' values plus 10 per oent. (The Minister for wo

Lands • " The Tax valnea are much higher.") He was told by a member of the Committee that it was Land Tax value, in which case there would be a loss of a million. The 430,000 for extended business was contingent on another bank being purobased. The earning power of. the Bank would no doubt be mor eased, but if shareholders only paid £450,000 on the first call, it would be impossible to realise more from the second call. If the Bill was given effeot to the colony would have an interest of £3,500,000, while the shareholders would only have £500,000 of interest. (The Premier : " What about the goodwill— it was once two millions ?") There was no goodwill now. He feareditho proposals would not have the desired effeot He would sooner see the second million handed over and the agricultural properties taken over by the State. (The Premier-. " That would not help the Bank. 1 ') He had a great reapeot for the Bank and the new directors, who had had a difficult time. He would be a party to no obstruction of the Bill, and there would be none on his side of the House. (Applause.) Mr. Duthie could ace no benefit for eithei the shareholders or the oolony. The personnel of the Committee was not oaloulated to Rive confidence, with four Ministers and the Chairman of another Bank on it, and members like Mr. Millar^ who had no quail fioations. (Cries of dissent.) There was at admitted loss of £1,340,468, and the Bant stood without a penny piece of oapital They had an involved Boheme to try to fine the capital. The Bank had not a good busi ness. It had already written off £1,363,000 and there was no goodwill.' ' Mr. Foster'i estimate of value wan not so valuable as il he had had greater aoqnaintance with th< properties. If only £450,000 oould b< secured by the second call, the third woulc produce much less. The proposals simplj meant paying interest opt of oapital. I would prejudioe the oredit of the colony if when they had to go to London, it wai through the Bank of New Zealand. Whj should they purchase another Bank P Wha' Bank would give £30,000 profit, and whal was the power whioh was foroing the pro posal ? Ministers were surrounded by Banl managers and grinning secretaries. In th< proposals made by the Committee he conic see no solution, no hope, and no end Though he dreaded the danger to the Bank he did not think the loss to the oolony by it; olosnre would be so great as that entailed by the proposals. The Minister for Lands said they had hac from the member for Eden a most gentle' manly speeoh, though opposed to the pro posals, whilst that from the laßt speakei was most insulting — very abominable. The Speaker said he oould not allow thai expression, and Mr. M'Kenrie substituted the statement that Mr. Duthie's speed showed no regard for the finer feelings oi members. (Laughter).. The Minister, proceeding, reiterated thai if the Bank had olosed its doors last year il would have been a calamity to the colony, Members of the House had is much respon. sibility in the notion then taken as the Got eminent. Members had done their dutj then, and the Government was doing He duty now. Some members thought thej were doing a great favour in voting witl the Government, but it waa no favour— th( responsibility of the position rested witl each one of them. Government was as in dependent as th«y were. The members o; the Joint Committee were 17 as good mci as could be fonnd in Parliament, and the; had gone exhaustively into the matter Settlers would be greatly injured if th< Bank came down, and if it went into liqui dation there would be few sound institution! in the colony within a month, and furthei taxation must follow. It would have boei interesting if the Committee had enquirec into the past history of the Bank, but it die not pry into these seorets. If the Bank weni into liquidation the true reoord would pro bably be exposed. Mr. T. Maokenzie said the Land Tin values of 1892, pins 10 per cent , had beei taken by the Committee, yet values hac fallen since 1892. The Bank should hav< been wound up long ago, but if it was to b( bolstered up amalgamation with the Colonia Bank was necessary. Mr. Buchanan said he approached th< enquiry with the determination that not on< shilling of the colony's money ehonld b< committed to the care of the Bank of New Zealand if it could possibly be helped, anc dire consequences could be avoided. Th« Bank was just solvent, and the onlj ißsne was 'to grant assistance, or tc appoint liquidators and olosse the insti tution. The latter course would mean thai many of the shareholders would be modi bankrupt. He was aghast when he founc that out of the seven millions of deposits five millions were held by 35,000 people ir this colony, who would be great sufferers He found also that the two million guarantee would be gone. What had the Premier got to say for himself for having .assured the Houeo last year that if they would do what they were called on to do not one pennj would they lose by this guarantee? He hurled back at the Premier the acousation that he, as a member of Parliament, wac responsible for what was done hist year, Government was responsible- (Hear, hear) Ministers could have prioked the bubble in two days if they had looked into the affaire of the Estates Company. (The Premier— " I Would do it again." c Yon are doing it now," Mr. Bell retorted.) It was not to be understood that the Committee waa satisfied with the situation and the report, which had been adopted as the least of two evils. Sir Hobert btout aaid, taking the balancesheets of the Bank and the two oompanies, the total deficiency (inoluding oontingenoj of £200,000) was £2,193,183. As against that there was the share capital of £900,000, the call in process of collection, £450,000, and the reserve liability of say £900,000— writing off £100,000. 1 hat still left a small margin of solvency in the Bank. He believed that the Assets Company's estates, il realised at onoe, would not realise the sum set down. The Committee had examined Mr. John M'Kerrow and others not connected with the Bank, with the result that they found the reduced valuation was a fair average. The Bank, taken as a whole, was about solvent, provided there were no forced realisation. If it were a private institution in this Btate he would say the State should not come to its assißtanoe. But the State was liable for the two millions, and before it oould realise would lobb interest to the extent of £500,000 or £600,000. Even if the securities realised the fnll value there would be this dead loss, and in addition forced realisation might mean a loss of £500,000 to £600,000 more. The Stale, therefore, Btood to lose if the Bank were forced into liqnidation £1,000,000 to £1,500.000, apart altogether from loss of revenue and disturbance of trade. If they could see their way to save the«olony from some part of this loss it was their duty to do it. He stood alone on the Committee in opposition to many of the proposals. The shareholders were asked to give np £450,000 of tbe moneys, and to pay in £500,000 more. 'If the colony came forward with another £1,350,000, and the shareholders with £500,000, this would be a fair thing. His proposal wonld have limited the colony's guarantee to £850,000 and £500,000. Under his scheme the colony would be liable as a guarantor of £850,000, while under the proposed soheme it would be liable for 3} millions. The proposal to free the seoond million was fair. From the estimate of profits they had to eliminate the £30,000 of new bnainesa. He estimated the profits at £70,000 to £80,000. With this the Bank oould have paid its interest, and given, say, 4 per cent, to its shareholders. If they olosed the Bank the loes would be li millions ; if they did not the Bank could'probably go on all right, thongh there would be perhaps some loss at the end of the nine years. Where banks failed great hardship followed— so great that itwomd be better for them to save the Bank for nine years even if at the end of that time they bad a million to pay. for it. As to the possibility of at this juncture starting a State Bank, a State Bank of Issue under certain conditions was desirable, bnt a State Bank doing commercial bnsiness was wholly undesirable, and must become a political engine. If they were to realise the assets they must do it in connection with the Lands for Settlement, for it would be very wrong to go on buying other estates and putting these in the'market in competition ! with thoße estates. We had not a Baffioient number of settlers desiring land to permit this. The^ trading o6noerns onght to be wound up in two years, even though a loss was made. They had not, however, been a loss to the Bink. Some of them paid as much as 10 per oent., and the majority five. I he drag had been the Waikato lands and the large quantities of land taken over. There should be a general statute to force any Bank to realise lands whioh- it had to take over nnder mortgage. Last year he was told, both by Ministers and Mr. Murray, that two millions w6uld more than make the Bank si-onre. They had no igures then as they had thia time When two years ago the' Premier said he wonld not allow any Bank to fail, he thought the statement injudioious, ' but now they had to ohoose between two evils, and the lesser evil was the assistance of the Bank. He did not think the Foreign Banks could take np the business. Mr. G. W. Bussell considered the statesmanlike speeoh jnst delivered had illuminated the question. The end must be that tbe Bank must be taken over, and administered aa a State institution, and he would move an amendment to this effeot in Committee. Mr. Montgomery did not consider the proposals satisfactory, bnt they would meet the case, and prevent a disaster whioh would involve two out of three of the community Captain .Russell said, as Leader of the Opposition, he was expeoted to score off the Government, and there had been opportunity, but in this oase he would not take it There was but one point in the Bill— were they to assist the Bank or notP Other matters were details whioh could be done as they went on. The report was the best the Committee could bring down. It had voluminous evidence before it, and for seven days worked continuously. If the report was crude m construction it had to be oonaiaerea that they had not time to regard their own reputation, but how best to place their information before the House He atill considered last year's Bills were wrong There was so muoh difference of opinion as to the effeot that litigation wonld have, and the termination by it of an undesirable method of business. He regretted that when iia motion to take evidence on this point ppaa ruled out of order in tbe Committee he lid not come down to the House acd get an imended order of reference. He was not as languine as others of the Committee as to he great inorease in .the Bank's earning lowers, but we were passing through a eason of unparalleled depression. The iresent proposals would not involve greater ass than already involved. If the Bank rere foroed to oompulsory liquidation it rould affeot the oountry's oredit, and involve ns to the country, look up the depositors' loney, and there would be the moat serious Jsarrangementof trade. The question wa», ad they mitigated the evil, or merely post355J? 1 * J"i day ?t? t At V Mte t the/had ostponed for long the evil day. The present' dministration and direotorafc oonsfcted of len of unsmudged honour and gonnd usinesa ftbjUtjr; who had before them the cample of the improper proceedings of th«. wt. For some time he was opposed to irohasing another Bank, but the/irast reember that the director* would first fa. ifIJS.' Ny I?™?? 68 .!! *° b » Purchased, and raid take no bad bnrinet •. He disapproved

I of the prinoiple of the ooncent of the ) Govemor-in-Counoil being required. The > whole of the responsibility should be with i the direotora, who were more competent ¦ than Ministers to deoide. The. valuation of s the properties was by competent men and t fair, judging from the properties ho and I others of the Committee knew. The weak - spot in the scheme was the estimate cf . increased earning power. Thoso more oomj petent than him to judge were satisfied that a £138,000 was an undor-estimate, but oommon ) sense taught him that from last year's t balance-sheet to that was a wide step. '1 he ) Bank could be built up again, but this could o only be done by absorption or amalgamation ; of some other institntion to give increased a earning power. He thonght it -would not be s neoeßsary to come to the House for any : further guarantee. This was not the beat of & schemes, but it waß the least of two evils. y Mr. Bell altogether dissented from Cape tain Bussell's view. The effect of liquidae tdon was exaggerated, and the price they if were to pay to obviate disaster was oat of all proportion to the extent of the disaster ir threatened. They had no right to aot r- without evidence, or to rely on the d opinions of the officers of the Bank, d as was done last year. To say that d valueß were now at bedrock was to say just i- what was said of Mr. Hean's valuation and n of last year's valuation. The capital had k disappeared, and no institution with no re- ]. serve liability could snoceed. They were id taking possession of a private institution i- with shareholders outside the colony, and ), were providing that they could not liquidate 's If the shareholders lefused to accept this if they could not be oompelled to. The direoie tors conld not alter the deed of settlement in without authority from the shareholders, [d whioh they had not. The whole thing waß iy done illegally and without the authority of [t the shareholders. It was grossly immoral to f aot so without consulting the shareholders, is This Bank had extended its tentaoleß all ij over the oolony. It was once as powerful it as Parliament itself. Now it was proposed it to make it more powerful than erer, and to 3- inoreaee its influence within Parliament. k As to the Colonial Bank, its direotora oould ie run rings round those of the Bank of New Id Zealand. They oould not ignore what was 1. going on in the lobbies. They knew that c, the Bank of New Zealand and the Treasurer ;b and Bomeone else was behind this. Evory4 one knew the Colonial Bank was behind this. They had deolared that its purchase d was absolutely essential, and the price j. would go up accordingly. ). Mr. Collins said his confidence in his ,r leaders had been vary considerably shaken orer this matter. it Mr. Bnddo said were it not for the ded positors he would throw out the Bill. He oonh demned the whole position and the aotion of >f Ministers. Mr. W. Hutchison regretted to see that it Ministers were as susceptible to theblanit dishments of bankers as in the days when j. Thomas Russell haunted the lobbies. The i. Bank should be left to work out its own j. destiny. y Mr. J. W. Kelly considered the position de;b grading to the House, and that Ministers were v severely to blame for their carelessness last h year, which had led to the present position, ie The position was so serious that the Premier ,h should either dissolve or prorogue Parliai. ment to permit members to consult their >£ constituents, if the Premier's allegations rein garding Mr. Murray were correct, a warrant iy should be issued to bring him back for obr. taining money under false pretences. If ie more was to be done they should take over i- the Bank as a State institution. He moved is that the Bill be read that day six months, jr Mr. G. Hutohison seconded the amendin ment. Members only supported the Bill d in the idea that it provided finality. If id if did not so provide they would not. In the it last three years the Bank had reconstructed 3. three times, and written down its capital and written off its resonrees to nearly ,x jE2.000.000. Now a fourth reconstruction in was proposed, and losses of £1,350,000 were ,<} admitted. The Committee was worthy of ¦c respect, bnt the only evidence they had was l 6 that of officials of the Bank interested. il There was no independent investigation. The evidence was partial, official,, and deie pendent. He cast no reflection upon the i e directors and officers of the Bank, bnt no i e business man would make recommendations w without 'independent investigation. The d directors' views differed materially from ia the findings of the report, aud they had y no acceptance of them from the directors. ;o (Mr.Praser— "Yes, you have.") Thevalues i- given were tax values, as though there were it perfect titles, but the titles were not perfect Ie in many instances. (Mr. Guinness— " Make d them perfeot by Act.") They had done such :s extraordinary things that thty might thus n interfere with private titles. Itwaa opon to j considerable doubt whether it was wise to ie lose the preatigo of the Bank of England )t in transacting the colony's business in c London. Amalgamation or purchase of it another Bank the House would not sanotion, y so that .£30,000 must come off the estimate c of profits. This appeared to be an integral n part of the schema, and if it fell out the « spheme would fall to pieof s. Taking away r. the £30,000 from the £138,750 of estimated ) profits, there remained £108,790, and from v thin a first charge was the £80,000 of inB toreat on the guaranteed two millions, so - that there was but the balance to meet it interest on £2,731,706. c The bonds might c not float at par with power to recall on 12 d months' notice. The estimate of a million d from the uncalled oapital was unreliable. He deprecated the pessimistic- view of I- the Treasurer and others as to ( he consei, quences should the Houße not interfere. > t y was a chimera. No one suggested that the it State should interfere in the Hnelish and ), Spotoh banking catastrophes. Beyond a ), dislocation of trade for a few months, the - injnry, should the Bank olose now, would II be very transitory. j. The Premier Biid the last speaker had if kept baok important information. He had n never said that Mr. Murray had misled the d Government. What he told the Government i. had been proved by the evidenoe before the It Committee to have been absolutely correct. a To talk of reconstruction now was a refleos tion on the direotors and officers, who were c managing the- Bank with the highest mcc tegrity. The directors wrote on Tnesday c that they concurred in the findings of the 0 Committee, and considered they would plaoe c the Bank on a sound footing With better 1 prices and more prosperous times the Bank f would poll round. s Mr. Allen said the proposals might prop a the Bank up for some years, but ho did tot a see how the oolony was to get its nwney Q baok. f Mr. Flatman thonght it would never do to a have anything happen to the Bank. Ho r Eupported the Bill. f Mr. Millar said the Committee's first j thought had been the protection of the 9 people Ihe bulk of the Friendly Societies 3 and a third of the concerns of the colony were . being run by the Bank. Before they were on > theCommUteefourhourstheyfounditaquesj tion of liquidation or assistance. The Aua- . tralian Banks were not in a position to fake . up the business. He would move in Come mittee that the colony go into the Bank on , the same footing as ordinary shareholders. , He opposed amalgamation. , Messrs. Wi Pere, Carnoross, and Maslin , supported the Bill, and Mr. Heke opposed it. t . Mr : Saunders said the BiU proposed to [ take from the poor to help an institution in • wnion nan-, men were mostly concerned. : Government had been impoverishing; the ; poor to bolster up the wealthy. The Bill : was in the interests of the Bank and not the | oology- The Treasurer was utterly reoklesß M « tn « obligations he plaoed on the people. ; Mr. M'Guire having opposed the Bill, a division was taken on the amendment at 5 30 i '¦""•i 'with the result that it was thrown out The Treasurer olaimed there was full . power in the artiolea of association for ParLament to do what it was doing, in spite of Mr. Bell's opinion. The ehareholders oonnrmed what was done last year. Gorern- , ment had the advice of the law Officers for every step taken. As to the result 1 ?£ dosing the Bank, even the closure of the City of Glasgow Bank, 12,000 miles away, bad a most disastrous effeot here, and one institution in New Zealand had to reconstruot, and transactions of various kinds were stopped. Mr. BeU wonld have done better to have respeoted Parliamentary traditions, and refrained from referring to lu b K r^ m , ou^ H , e , challenged him to say «"}* ho (Mr. Ward) had lobbied anyone. Mr. BeU said he waß not referring to the Treasurer or any of his oolleagueß. >• riu J re . aa ° rer BaM V 1 ordinary course one of the first steps should be the oreation of a reserve fund, but here it was necessary nrst to wipe off the deficit. The Bank would have £2,000,000 at Kb dispoEal under conditions no other Bank would have, and this ; would be ample reserve fund. The diffloulty in connection with a State Bank of deposit and isßue would be that unless it were to lend for commercial and other purposes it oould not pay. He had endeavoured to study the matter, and be"eyed all the Australasian colonies would l'\ «!"" B £ te Banka in ***** midst, bnt the question was a difficult one, and the commercial aspect would have to be considered apart from any other. The atti- ' tude of Capt. Bussell was worthy of his high position-{applanee)-and was a, model to those members who had sought to make pohboal capital out ot the queltion. l a "| respeot did Mr. Saunders' statements agree I with the proposal.. The proposals accepted ' indirect responsibility to save tho taxation ! which must make up a falling revenue were I there disaster. X the matter affected , •S e Ban L.°£ Na 7, Zenana and not the country it would not concern them. ' Sir Eobert Stout, in an otherwise exoellent speech, was wrong in saying the coionv guaranteed £3 500,000 under &c proposals! of £855,000, and for this there was collateral B « 0 ?«*y\ 00 ">r countries had carried on their btuuewi with the Bank of Borland and then ohanged to their own Banks, and no harm had resulted. The Bank of England did nothing for the oolony without full ' seonnty, whioh any bank would require, and ' careful enquiry in England oonvinoed him ' tbat no trouble would ensue from the onango. Mr. Bell denied having referred to lobby ' rnmonrs. ; The Bill was read a second time by 35 to ' 20. « The following was the division list — 1 For the Bill, 35 — Buddo, Cadman Carnoross, Carnell, Carroll, Collins, Orowther, Dunoan, Flatman, Fraser. Guinneßs, Hall! " M"v a ' SSS*' Honaton . W. Kelly, iawry Maslin. M'Gpwan. J. M'Kenrie, M'Lachlan Meredith, Millar, Mills, Montgomery, Morri. .- son,Parata, Pere, Pinkerton,^. W. Bussell t Seddon, Stevens, Ward, Willie, T. Thomp- 1 p^ tt hnßh n8t ' w-,7t Uod ' 1? U ' Bniok > Dnthi e. W. B. Enssell, bteward, Boohanan, Stout D Green, Mackintosh. Against-Granam7B P< ¦Ie Ao, Lan^f, T. Maokenrie. mJ« ? fTj bt ™8 gorei that no Com2nlo2 n lo p c m Bl at t 6:iOa:m he HH ° M 6 •««««- «H