NORTHERN DIVISION. MEETING OF THE MEMBERS WITH THEIR CONSTITUENTS.

Daily Southern Cross, Volume XXIII, Issue 3222, 13 November 1867, Page 3

NORTHERN DIVISION. MEETING OF THE MEMBERS WITH THEIR CONSTITUENTS.

Mb. Jambs O'-Nittt. and Mr, Thomas Macffarltne, tht representatives of the Northern Dmaion in th« House of Representatives, held a meeting of their constituents ye»terd»y at Mr. Nicnol's shed, North Shore, for the purpose of explaining the votes they gave in the last session. There was a good attendance, including a number of gentlemen from Auckland. On the motion of Mr. McKinstky, seconded by Mr. a. Websmb, Mr. W. J. Hurst took the chair. The Chairman said that those present were aware that the meeting had been called by the members for the Northern Division for the ' purpose of doing what he conceded was their duty, of giving some account of their conduct last session ab Wellington. It was unnecessary for him to preface the proceedings by any remarks, but he hoped that they would get an attentive hearing on what they would take the trouble to inform the meeting about, aud that the same consideration would be shown to any gentleman expressing his opinion, either on one side or the other. After a few further remarks, the Chairman called upon Mr. O'Neill, as the senior member, to address the meeting. Mr. O'NeHiL, who was warmly applauded, said that he had to thank them for their kindness in meeting Mr. Macfifarlane and himself so soon after their return from Wellington. This was the firat meeting of the kind in this province where the electors and their representatives had met for the purpose of hearing an account of what took place during the session of the Assembly just ever. Politics were not very entertaining at any time, more especially at a period of marked depression such as the present. They were all so familiar with colonial politics that that very familiarity prevented them paying that amount of attention to their public affairs which they demanded. (Hear.) The settlers of the Northern Division never desired their representatives to be mere delegates; therefore it seemed to him the more necessary that on their return from Parliament they Bhould, with ai little delay as possible, give an account of their stewardship. (Hear.) The speech with which the Assembly was opened enunciated a policy which he could not altogether approve of, holding as he did provincial views; for instance, he could not support a measure for guaranteeing interest on capital spent in introducing water into the goldfields; neither could he give his voice in favour of spending money in establishing a central prison for criminals or a central lunatic asylum, because their Provincial Government had done all that could be reatouably expected in providing establishments suitable for this part of the colony ; consequently he could could not give a cordiul rapport to the _ reply in answer to the Governor's address. But it was remarkable, as the session rolled on, that Ministers became quite as provincial in their ideas as one could have desired. It was to be regretted that there was » no organisation among their members before leaving Auckland.or any understanding as to the procedure to be ado pted on arriving at Wellington. Every member was therefore left to do just as he thought best for the division he represented. At the same time, none of them could forget that a feeling pretty generally prevailed throughout the province that the Northern members should sink minor differences of opinion and vote together, so as to be respected and' felt by the Assembly. (Hear.) He would now call their attention to a proceeding on the part of a considerable section of the House. A meeting of members holding provincial views was held at the Club in Wellington early in the session ; there were thirty members present, Dr, Featherston in the chair. That was the first open demonstration for preparing an opposition to the Government. Mr. Vogel, a member for the Goldfields, brought forward for adoption a motion (to be put on the order paper of the House) for the purpose of inquiring into the finanoial condition of the colony. That was the first step, in his opinion, .to embarrass or turn out the Ministry, as nothing could be more offensive to a Government than such a proceeding before the Colonial Treasurer had time to make his financial statement to the country. Consequently they had to look to the meeting at the" club as one solely organised for the purpose of embarrassing or turning out the Government. At that meeting nearly every one present spoke ; they all expressed views more or less agreeing with the proposition, and the meeting wonld have passed off with the greatest harmony, were it nob for himself alone, as he had opposed the principle sought to be carried out. (Hear, hear.) He felt that, while they had nothing but vague promises from a section of the ultra-provincialist3, who sought to obtain power, they could look with more trust and confidence to the existing Government, to put their hands ioto the Treasury that was supplied both by the Middle Island as well as the Northern Island, and take out of it money sufficient to repress crime in any part of the colony, whether in the North or South. Now the section of the House that sought power were desirous of leaving all matters in each province to the control of the provincial authorities of that province ; and as he had thought for the last three years it was pretty clear that this province was getting daily into a worse condition of debt, he felt the provincial authorities, let them be ever so wiLing, were not in a position to put down rebellion if it should arise again in any part of the country. Therefore, he hesitated before he could give his support to such a motion as that put forward by tke hon. member for the Goldfields, and preferred rather to withdraw qnietly from a section of the House that he thought was not disposed to do this province that amount of justice that its interests required should be done. Subsequent events, he thought, had turned out showing that the views he had entertained were correct, because, although large promises were made to the Auckland members by the Provincial party, the moment the Government proposed that two extra members should be given to represent the province of Auckland, every member o£ the Otago section turned round, went to the other side of the table, and voted against Auckland. That was a clear proof that they could not put that large amount of confidence in them that some of the Auckland members were dispoied to repose in them. (Hear,, hear.) There was also another case where the Otago section bad ■hown their disposition not to act, as he thought, in a manner calculated to assist this province. It was essentially necessary that some colonial force, however small, should be organised, in the absence of the military; and when the Constabulary Bill was brought forward the same section of the House voted against that bill, because it was altogether, he mijjht say, for the Northern Island. A third time he saw their disposition not to support anything having a tendency to benefit Auckland. They turned round and voted against the subsidy. With the exception of three or four of the Otago members, all the others voted against the subsidy for the steamer between Auckland and New South Wales. Those were his reasons for not giving his hearty support to the ultra-provincial . section of the Home, at represented by the Otago members, as he otherwite might have done. (Hear, hear) He felt it to be his duty, seeing the position of affairs in this province, and believing that he could not put confidence in men who had no confidence in themselves, to look to those who he believed were desirous to do something reasonable for the benefit of this section of the colony. (Hear, hear.) He would shortly state his Masons for giving his support to the present Government. After the meeting of the Club he was desirous of ascertaining what were really the views o£ tb.e Government towards this province. He mooted the question to the Auckland members as to the propriety of waiting on. the Government to ascertain their views. However, as he and others were not allowed to go in an official capacity, they went in their private capacity, as independent member*. ("Name.") Mr. Carleton, himse'f, and one or two other members called upon the Government. They saw a member of the Government, and although it was to be expected that the Government would speak in such a way that their utterance would bear a twofold signification, still they gleaned «uffici«nt to ahow that there was a desire to relieve Auckland from her load of debt, so far as they possibly could, if the House would allow them. Having ascertained that much, they felt it to be their duty to call the members together to appoint an official deputation to wait upon the Government. That was agreed to; in fact, there would be no objection to that. They found that Government, as far as they possibly could, were willing to deal out an amount of justice to Auckland, which perhaps, if other persons got into power, would not have been the case, ije therefore felt it to be his duty, in the interests of this part of the province, to give a general support to the Government. He regretted very much that the question of Separation did not arist in jVx& House in a more promineßt .manner.i d% only aroie on one oooiiion, whw Mr. Carleton

iuo?c& *iivt i.e. auoouded, mi amendment to the effect that Separation wai i,ecessary. If they only eou d c-cner.te, such a thing would «oon be broauht !f° U M-M? ce r b , cIi 7 el th »*» Mll J rrf the member, of the, Middle I.l«n| would be disposed to take the whole of the debt of the colony on their ihou ders if only separated from the Northern Island. «m ont i<so»9ipD he heard it mooted in a private meeting, and it would pwiibly hare taken shape in the House were it not that Dr. Fe*ther«ton protested againrtiUMni practicable Thatgentleman well knew thai if tietaration took place Weldngtm wou'd lose the teat of Governmeut, and that the seat of government woulJ come back to iti old plaon. (deari hear.) Perhaps one of the moat important question* that arose dariug the ies*ion Was the Local Government Bill (Hear.) It was a measure that dae|ly a&QUd hit constituents. Well, he could not Uake up , hit mind what he should do on that occasion, because he saw it was a bill that would take well with the ooontry ; at the same time he saw the machinery wai so bulky and so expensive that in that i>h»pe it would not me»t the wants of the oountry; ami as the Government had made a mistake in n<«t laying it Wore the oountry fur some months before the As•emhly , met, ,ao that the people would have an opportunity of dtscuwing the merits of the bill, he b« ie*. d it was his duty to make an effort to have th« consideration of it postponed until next session, and not tv linve it o*l r led into law during that session. He thought >t winiLl nut ha»« ti«en wise to have h*<? imh a radical change made iv the Coustitattoo, of the country without appealing to the oountry, , without dissolving the Assembly, or, without allowing the elector* nine or ten months to consider the question. They must remember that the territorial features brought forward in that bill were intended to supplant the Provincial Government. Although not apparent at tot right, it would eventually have drawn the life- » Wood from the Provincial Governments, and therefore they must die for want of sustenance. For instance, if die member for Mangonni got 25 per cent, out of the land fund of his district, he knew h« could get nothing by coming up to the Provincial Council. He would not command other members would not come ; they would not have a quorum to form a Oonnoil, and the Provincial Government would naturally die out He was not prepared to support auoh a radical change as that without his constituent* first baring an opportunity of considering it. He asked the Government to postpone the question for nine months, until the members for the Northern Division and other members had considered the matter, and taken up that subject in suoh a way as to enable them to decide it one way or other. If the other eleotors of his division decided in favour of it Jbe would vote for it, whether his own views were altogether in its favour or not. There was another question raised in the House, the railway and the waste lands. He did not object to the bill about the railway, for it was not intended to take anymore money out of the Provincial Treasury for completing its construction. Had it been otherwise he would have objected to it, as the •lectors of the Northern Division, or those in the north of Auckland, had no right to be taxed for such expenditure. (AVoiojs: "Nor the electors in the south of Auckland.") As the bill provided for the raising of money by [mortgaging the plant and works, he could have no objeotion to it. They no doubt were aoqnainted with the Waste Lands Bill. It could not do much harm; it could poi&ibly do no good. He thought there were some provisions in it monstrously unjust, and that the Bouse had done a Wise thing in expunging them. One of them was that the Superintendent should give land in proportion to the money a man had at the bank, so that by a thousand pounds going from one hand to another for one week, they could buy up the bulk of the waste lands of the province. Another provision was that forty acres of land should be given to any person from Sydney, and only forty acres to an immigrant from England. If the land was worth 10s. an acre, that would be £20, and he considered it would be unfair to give £20 worth of laud to a man who had only paid £5 coming from Sydney to Auckland. On the whole, he thought the bill would do no harm, for the days were gone by whoa the Provincial Government would deem ifc to be necessary to deal in land at all. It would be wiser to sell the land at any price they could get, and pay their debts. He thought the funotions of the Provincial Government were of a higher order than buying land from natives to sell again with the hope of making a profit. (Hear, hear.) On every occasion when retrenchment was spoken of in the House, he supported it as far as he possibly could, aa he believed it to be essentially necessary. He believed that the oost of the civil service of Nsw Zealand was weighing down the country, so that they possibly would not be able to carry on at the present rate of expenditure. He would not detain the meeting very long, but there was. one subject he deemed it right to bring forward— the effort made by the Southern people— in dtfiance of an implied contract, if aot written — to do away with the steam service between New South Wales and Auckland. It would be in their recollection that when the Panama service was commenced it was on the clear understanding that the steam service between Auckland and Australia was still to be continued for the convenience of the people of Auckland, and that a boat should also be supplied between Melbourne and Otago. An effort had been made, and he was sorry to say successfully made, to stop the steam postal service to Auckland at the end of six months. He believed that was breaking faith with the North, and he believed it to bo one of those events that would hasten on the disruption of the colony into two sections. (Rear.) He had very little doubt that the Panama service was too expensive to be carried on much longer. (Hear, hear.) He had -hoped that the Government wonld have allowed two boats to continue—oae from Melbourne to Dunedin and the other from Sydney to Auckland. He was perfectly Willing that the steam service should be left altogether to private enterprise; he was quite willing to «cc the subsidies done away with, and to leave the steam service of the country to private enterprise if the Government had adopted that oourte ; but he felt annoyed when he saw that they were going to retain the Panama service, and the ■emoe from Melbourne to Dunedin for the benefit of the richest province in the colony. He felt the Khemetobe an exceedingly unfair and improper one for the Government to support. He did not know anything eke that occurred during the last session to interest them. He might only say that, as far as he was himself concerned, he never sat' more constantly; he never sat for longer hours ; he never applied himself more closely to the business than during the last session, so that their Division, at all •vents as far as his conscience was concerned, might be properly represented. (Cheers.) Mr. Wbkjmy : What about the £25,000 ? Mr. o'NKn.ii : With respect to the £25,000 expected to be received from the Treasury of Dunedin, to be mud into the Treasury of Auckland, he did not know whether that was impounded or not. (Laughter.) As the Provincial Council would meet on the 28th of this month, the Superintendent would be prepared then to lay before the Council the precise position of affairs— whether they would be able to carry on the province, or whether it should be .carried on by the General Government as part of the colony. ,He did not know that he had anything more to say unless reminded of something •!«• by any gentleman present. His respected colleague would address the meeting; and after his •peechhe (Mr. O'Neill) would be able to answer any questions they thought .proper to put to him. (Mr. O'Neill resumed his seat warmly applauded.) The Chairman -said that was the proper time to put questions to Mr. O'Neill, or to make any remarks with reference to what he had said; and afterwards Mr. Maoffarlane could address the meeting. (Cries of " No, no.") Mr. Mxcwablaxk said that he did not think it at all necessary to go over the same ground as had been gone over by Mr. O'Neill. He had touched upon the leading questions which were brought before the Assembly, and he had explained the part Which he took with regard to them. He (Mr. Maoffarlane) might say that, during the session, fZZf.J"* ," cc * rcel y * question on which Mr. O'Neill and himself differed. (Hear, hear.) Mr. XWJeill and himself, and a few others of the Auckland members, were in the daily habit of exchanging their views, and considering what should be done for the benefit of the province with which they were connected, andtheygenerally acted in accordance in the measures which were brought before them. He might say that he was peculiarly struck with the Assembly on reaching it. It was very difficult to give a proper account of what took place in the House. There was no properly denned policy on either side. It flaa more the appearance of a meeting of creditors SELJ *♦ deliberative assembly, and it SK^f..? h ! m tlut the wpresentatrres of each province were trying to get as SSSifff** f °V hei ?, own lWnce, wShoul «*pectto the general welfare of the colony as a 2ttw tPW f*™? 1"1 "* ™ay, he hadrtaLS pubhcly that he would be r^red to co-operate wfthj the majority of the Auckw members on any question where the interests of the province were (avolTtd, On reaching Wellington ft f ound tlut

•a arang«m.>ut«r uad^standiog h\<i been entered into with the Ot&go m<-niber* ; that those members had been ranking hxr^e propo«itls to relievo the Notfch I«lmdof th* debt and three million loan, and throw upr>n the North I-lanl the expense of native aff*i» a. The majority of the Auckland members were for a time led away by these proposals, bat by-and-by it became evident that the Southern members were not ■inoere, because when the Representation Bx 1 came on, and it w*s proposed to give two additional members to the North, the Otago memben to a nun voted against if.— a clear evidence that they were not ready to carry out what they had previously professed. On several other occa«l.>ng the OtHgo* members voted against them, and he beoame perfectly Hatisfied that no benefit would be derived by a collusion between the Auckland and Otago members of the House. Every day they^ became more and more satisfied that, if it bad l>een in the power of the majority to turn out the Ministry, they could not have put in another that would have lasted f-r a singe month. Those men who had made the Urgent profe*si<>ns to Uf were the firxt to turn their back* u|>ou v«, and to deceive us. At had b-en explained by Mr. O'Ntill, they had bad worn- int-rcourse with the Government, and were led to believe that the Government were prepared to do certain tiling for the J^orth Island, and they had more faith in the Government than in the Oiauo mn. A large majority of the Auckland members then agreed to give a general support to the Government, which was done throughout the session. Although on various occasions aubaequently every member voted quite as he chose, they as a general rule agreed amongst themselves to support thi Government. That went on during the session. He might mention the aotion whioh they took ir the early part of the session, by combining togethei and voting against the Local Government Bill, They voted against it in the state in whioh it was, and the then state of the provincial questioi as against the central question. The actioi they took on that occasion satisfied th< Government that they could not carry on the go vernment of the country without the Aucklanc members, or an equal number of the members of th< House. That enabled them to have a position in th< House, and to get from the Government things thej would not otherwise have got. It would not b< expected that he should go into all the detaili of the bills, but he might simply refei to what Mr. O'Neill had said, and make a few re marks in addition. He would advert now to thi vote which he gave on the postal service. He ha< to state that, before the postal service came on foi consideration in the House, it was generally under stood amongst the members that there would be s large reduction made, and, in accordance with that Major Atkinson brought forward a motion to reduci the_ vote to £320,000 for 1867-8, and for 1868-9 t< £250,000, leaving the Government to carry out thi reduction. Ihen Mr. O'Rorke moved that i steamer from Melbourne to the Manukai was preferable to any other line fron Australia to Auckland.' Mr. Beeves Lac given notice of a motion for a return o the number of letters coming from Sydney t< Auckland, with the view of showiog the smal number of letters brought by the Sydney boat t< Auckland. He suggested, with the view of makinj the list larger, that the Southern letters vift Sue: should be included. That was so. Mr. Reeve'i return showed that a very small proportion cami to Auckland, while the great proportion went t< Otago. His return also showed that each lette from Suez cost the country 18s. Mr. O'Rorke wen into calculations extending over a different period o time. When the troops were here a large propor tion of letters cttme to Auckland by th< Suez route. According to his calculation, 4s. 8d was the cost^ of each letter. Then came on thi general question of postal services, amounting t< £64,000. It was first tried to make a general re duction, but that was objected to because we coul only affect the items. Mr. Stafford proposed tha £16,000- should be taken off, which was intended ti affect both steamers from Sydney to Auckland and from Melbourne to Dunedin. Mr. Hall said tha one and a half services should be taken off, leavim two and a half stiH in exietence. Mr. Stafford moy« that the £16,000 be taken off, and Mr. Fitzherber supported that. Mr. Hall objected to the motion and then Mr. Richmond, the Commissioner o Customs, supported Mr. Hall. There was a doub that it would break up the Ministry. Mr. Hall sai< that if these motions were carried he did no see the use of a Postmaster-General, After a goot deal of discussion, Mr. Stafford moved the ad journment of the question. It subsequently cam< up, and the reduction of the £16,000 was moved and I voted for it. It was then proposed by Mr Bunny that the vote be reduced by £7,000. Thei came the proposal to reduce it by £5,000 and that was chiefly directed at the Sydney am Auckland serrioe. He (Mr. Macffaxlane) refused t< vote on that question. He did not intend to vot< because, as he stated to Mr. Clark, who sat besid< him, his vote might be misconstrued. He (Mr, Macffarlane) was in the act of leaving, when th( doors were locked, and he was reported to the Chair man by some kind friend, who wished to place hin in a false position, as not haviDg voted. At that tim« the votes stood 26 to 27. He said that, if he must vote, he should do as he thought right, and vot< with the ayes against the steam subsidies. He knew that the casting vote of the Speaker would be giver to keep things in statu quo. His vote did not decide the question on the first vote, nor on th( second; and when the question of the Aucklanc and Sydney steamer was before the House, he declined to vote. He had been charged with voting on the postal question from interested motives, and he hoped to have been spared the indignity of thai charge. He thought that he had so conducted himself as to have been spared that charge, But as the charge had bean made, h« had to state that, so far as the Aucklanc and Sydney steamer was concerned, it was foi the interest of the Circular Saw line that it should be continued. And for these simple reasons— thai in the steamer they had a straightforward anc honourable opponent. They never had any difference with them with regard to any matter. They arranged the rates of freight with them in a fair and friendly spirit. (Laughter.) They have noi undersold us, nor we them, in the slightesi degree. He brought these matters forward witl regret, because he did not think that he would be required to bring private matters before the public, He had still further to add that they supplied the steamers with coal, and had a large profit off that contract, which they would be deprived of were the steamer taken away. If the steamer were done away with, there would be other opponents in the fieldperhaps people who would not be so scrupulous, but who would force freights down. (Hear.) He was talking now of the matter as affecting their interests as owners of the Circular Saw line, and he stated quite fearlessly that it was their interest that the steamer should be continued. So much so was that the case that he was prepared to concur in any resolution, meeting, or proceeding which would have the effect of continuing the steamer until the general postal question waa disposed of. So far as regarded his attendance he fearlessly challenged any member to say that there were more regular attenders than Mr. O'Neill and himself. In fact, the members for the Northern Division were examples in that respect. They co-operated cordially throughout the session. He (Mr. Macffarlane) had the more pleasure in doing so because he was a youDg member of the Bouse, and Mr. O'Neill was an old and experienced one. When he (Mr. Macffarlane) had any difficulty, he went to Mr. O'Neill, and received from him kindness and attention, which were very beneficial to him. He hoped, if spared, to return to the House, and the apprenticeship he had served— he believed he had read every bill before the House— although he did not make a great appearance in the House, he invariably took a great interest in the bills, and believed that he knew as much about them as any member in the House. (Cheers.) The Chairman said they had heatd the remarks of both members. It w«s for any gentleman to come forward and ask questions or make remarks. Mr. Wbiglet wished to ask Mr. Macffarlane why he voted against the Local Government Bill. Mr. Macjfarlane said he had already explained that he voted against the Local Government Bill because it injuriously affected provincial institutions. He believed that, if the bill had passed, provincial institutions would cease to exist ; but that with a Local Government Bill and a Municipal Corporation Bill they would be sufficient to carry on the ordinary business of this province without the expense of double management ; but as long as provincial institutions existed, the bill, as it stood, was incompatible with those institutions, and he had voted against it on those grounds. Mr. Cbbighton wished to know if any persons but electors had a right to take part in the proceedings, or whether those having a property qualification in the district, but whose names did not appear on the electoral roll, could take part in the proceedings. It was for the two members who had convened the meeting to deoide that question. Mr. O'Neill said there ought to be no question about that. Any gentleman present, although he might not happen to be on the roll, might have as <

deep ku interest in the diafcriot u those whoso name* were enrolled. Mr. Macffarlane had no objection. The Chairman said it was, therefore, competent for auy gentiem«n to a*k a quention or address the tae«fciotf on the subjects alluded to. Mr. Chbi&t felt obliged to their members for calling them together, if* differed from them in many points of their proceedings. They had explained why they had voted againat the Local Government Bill He could not agree with their r-«s»t>a, a« he believrd it to bo a good bill, if properly carried out by the .Government. The Auckland member* ha<l votet together on most subjects j they had rot-d toother on the goldfields question, They had endorsed the proaeedioga of a public officer who had embezzled a large sum of public money — they approved of the attempt to hand over authority to him in that province, which they were not obliged to do. On that question the Auckland, members generally* voted against the Government. (Mr. O'Nmll : " No.") If Mr. O'Neill did not tote against tht Government on that question, he (Mr. Cherry) was wrong. (Mr. ( rughton : «• He did ") He diil not altogether blame the members pres-nt. Publio men should eudeav»ur to maintain iho honour of the country, and not attemi t to c ndone suou offend as Mr Macandn-w was chared with bnviug committed. He believed the M nintrv were likely to serve Auckland well, and he believed they o<-uld uoc have fount d a tatter Miui-try. Tnere had ti«en liit.e p> ogress made in lespect of retrenchment* Every year the expoEse of the government of the country was increasing. Every year there were a lot of fresh appointments — high appointments. Every stssion they had to borrow more money, as the revenue would not meet the expense of government. He was sorry the Auckland members did not make a stronger stand on that question against the Government. He believed the most feasible mode of outting down expenses was that certain sums should be named for carrying on the government of the country, and that they were not to be exceeded. Under existing circumstances, the Government, instead of being responsible to the House, really governed the House. The Government brought down certain measures, and said the House must carry them. He would like to see the members more independent on such subjects, and not submit to be driven by the Government. The members should agree to a certain sum, and carry a resolution restricting the expenses of the Government to that amount. He did not allude to extraordinary expenses that might be incurred if there should be another outbreak with the Maoris ; but expenses for the ordinary government of the country. He felt much obliged to the members foi having called them together, and explained theit conduct, — a course which should be adopted more frequently. (Hear, hear.) Mr. O'Neill wished to make an explanation respecting the goldfield question. It had come before the Home on two occasions. On the first occasion he felt it to be - his duty to vote with Mr. Maoandrew for this simple reason: He was elected, and the Government had the power to disallow that election. By not disallowing the election, the Government condoned the offence. The people of Otago had elected him by an overwhelming: majority, thereby condoning the offence. As a membar fiom the extreme North, he did not think it right to step in and upset matters by his vote; but the tiling was different when a motion was brought forward to give the power to Macandrewj he then took a different stand. He said he would support the Government in giving the power to the Provincial Executive of Otago, but not to Macandrew, as the Executive were responsible to the Provincial Council, and the Council to the people ol Otago ; and thereby the people had the power, and not Maoandrew. His vote was given for the Provincial Executive, and not for Macandrew. Mr. Cbeightoh thought that Mr. O'Neill had hardly explained his vote on that occasion fairly. It might be his misconception of the question as it arose, but he thought Mr. O'Neill had placed it in the most convenient form to the meeting for himself. Early in the session the Provincial party, ol which Mr. O'Neill was a member, made a direct attack upon the Government upon the question of delegation of powers to Mr. Macandrew. Mr. Vogel brought forward x resolution which the Government took to be a vote of want ol confidence. Mr. Fitzherbert moved an amendment which had cut the feet completely from the Provincial party, which was to the effect that the dele, gation of powers should bo given to the Provincial Executive of Otago for the time being. Mr. O'Neill voted for the original motion, and voted against that amendment, although he subsequently supported the amendment, when embodied in the shape of a bill. He failed to lee how Mr. O'Neill had explained either his vote ox position on that occasion. He would appeal to the records of the session. It was clear that not only Mr. O'Neill, but the great majority of the Auckland members, had dragged themselves through the dirt, and degraded this province by their association and compact with Otago. Aftei the Government had bought the Auckland votes, and after Auckland had lent them its strength, the Government struck off the steam subsidy. He considered Mr. O'Neill's explanation of his vote as inconsistent with facts nnd unsatisfactory to the electors of the Northern Division. Mr. Wtnn wished to ask whether there wag any discuision in the House of Assembly with regard to the £25,000 appropriation which it was understood the Auckland province was to haye — if that sum was to be appropriated to a particular purpose. Mr. O'Niill thought that the hon. member for Franklyn did bring forward a proposal of a specific character, with the view that the £25,000 should not be made revenue in the ordinary sense of the word, to be expended on salaries, but should be applied to some useful purpose, such as the completing of that eye-sore, the railway. The hop. member felt that if ifc were put into the provincial chest and made provincial revenue it would be paid away in salaries to officers, and that the province would not derive any good from it, but if it were applied to finishing the construction of the railway it would be much better and more judicious. He thought that was the effect of the resolution brought forward by the hon. member for Franklyn. Mr. Wtnn asked whether a clauie was not pro posed in form in committee and objected to. Mr. O'Neill : It was brought forward by the hon. member for Franklyn as a clause to appropriate the money to the Auckland and Drury Railway. Mr. Ma.oi-farla.nx said the Auckland members met to resolve what was to be done. They were unanimous that the £25,000 should not go into the usual provincial revenue, in tue belief that, if it went there, it would go for a purpose that was not of a permanent character. The Superintendent, Mr. Dignan, and Major Heaphy were present when that course was adopted. When they cams to the House, Major Heaphy took exception, and a constitutional objection that the House had not the power to appropriate that sum, and that it must bo left to the Provincial Council to appropriate it. Mr. Carleton, as Chairman, ruled that the House had the right to appropriate it, and the Speaker thought that the Attorney-General's opinion should be taken. It was thought expedient not to endanger the bill for the sake of the clause, and it was left to the Council to appropriate. Mr. MoKikstrt said he was glad to hear that Mr. O'Neill was not prepared yet to strangle the province. He would like to know Mr. O ? Neill's opinion as to the consolidation of loans. Mr. Macpfarlaiob said he was not prepared to hand over the province to the General Government. Mr. O'Neill said that he took but little part in the question of the consolidation of the loans. That was a question which required a great deal of consideration. To his mind the indebtedness of the colony remained precisely where it was before. No province could borrow money without passing a bill which had to be consented to by the General Government of the country. If the provinces were unable to meet their liabilities, then the General Government must do it. He believed the General Government did right in stepping forward and placing the whole in debentures of the colony on such a basis as made it respected in the London market. He believed the time would come when the provinces would have done their work. He opposed' the Local Government Bill because he believed that the General Government could not yet introduce immigrants in sufficient numbers to make a colony. If the province got so poor as not to be able to introduce immigrants, and not to be able to pay the salaries of their own servants, then they ought to get sufficient from the General Government, and let the government be carried on in a respectable and proper manner. They had tried over and over again to ascertain by figures the position of the Provincial Government, but the Superintendent declined to give these figures. They thought, if the Provincial Government could not be carried on, that they were in a position, from their fifteen votes in the House, to make better terms than in the position of private men at home. Mr. Maoctarlane said that, with respect to the Bankruptcy Bill and the Abolition of Arrestment Bill, when the committee were appointed they reported in favour ol the abolition of imprisonment

for de*-t, «od *t the tame dote ia favour i of the Bankruptcy Bill. It was believed from information that the Upper House would not agree to the bill for the abolition of imprisonment for debt. That bill faa<i not been passed. Mr. Cabman asked whether they thought that, under present circumstances, the province should be handed over to the General Government. Mr. O'NaiLi, sai.l he should he aorrj if this were the first proviuoe to be Wound up. He thought they should make an effort by retrenchment to exist at a province, but if they w-re to go he thought it ought to be i<efoie the Jait shilling was upeut rather than wh«u all was spent, Mr. OadmaN thought that it had always been the policy of the people of this province to ruin it. It bad always been the policy of the members to run entirely upon their own hook, It had been the i polioy of every other province to vote in block votes; and thus it was that, while this province was in its present state, every other province had anived at prosperity. ("Ques tinn.' 1 ) Were those who were prepared to pull d»wn the' province prepared to put up anything in its stead ? The mcmbeis in last session ba<l been like sheep gone Mstray. (Cries of •• No," and "Who was the shepherd' ?") Every man had acted on his own hook, and Mr, Stafford bad ouly to divide and conquer. Mr. Wtnn said he would first make an observation or two upon the sf^am subsidy, which had been muat unsatisfactorily treated, but more satisfactorily by Mr. O'Neill than by Mr. Macffarlane. Mr. O'Neill told them he had done all he could to retain the boat here, but that he failed ; while Mr. Maeffarlane had told them that he did all he could to prevent it, and he succeeded. (Mr. Macwarlanje : "No.") He would say "Yes." Mr. Maoffarlane's explanation was an unfortunate one altogether. He first was of opinion that nil subsidies should cease. So far he agreed with him, but in that he failed. Having failed in doing away with all the subsidies, he should have done his best to get a share of what was voted, for this province. Instead of doing that, he voted against the province getting any share of the money voted for steam postal services. He gave an explanation about the steamboat company and the Circular Saw line having made arrangements with each other a? to freight charges and the supply of coal. But would it not be better, instead of of having competitiou, that the firm should have all the freight to themselves? It was clearly their interest to keep a monopoly, and if they had no place to sell the coals they should not buy them. The horn member talked of not having voted. That was not the position which a member should take. If he could not honestly vote, he should not.be there. He was bound to vote if he was there. By that one vote he must know that there was a probability of their losing the steamer. If he had not given his vote, the Speaker's casting vote would not have been required. The hon, member might shake his head, but he did not think there was much in that. (Laughter.) The hon. member went on to say that he had made himself master of all the bills. That was a fallacy. If he had made himself master of the Bankruptcy Bill, for instance, it would have come out in a different shape from that which it now had. It was the most miserable abortion ever put in the statute-book of any country. If wrong in his opinion, he would challenge the hon. member on any occasion. Mr. Macffarlane : I will have great pleasure in doing so. Have you read the bill ? Mr. Wynn : No, it would take about a month to read it. I have read it. Mr. Macotablanx : No, you have not. Mr. Wynn did not think that the hon. member or any member of the House was master of onefourth of the bills. He would challenge him that he did not know a scrap of some of them. Did he know the Shires Bill ? He admired their reasons for throwing out that bill. 1 hey liked it, but did not like the "when." By that bill, if they subscribed £1, the Government would give £2. Where were the Government to get the £2 from? Had the Government a well of sovereigns to pay money out of? The Government should not tax one 6d, more than was necessary for the government of the country. If the Chancellor of the Exchequer at home found that he had a surplus of two millions, did he appropriate it on roads and bridges? No; he would bring it forward to the next year, and reduce the taxation of the country. Unfortunately in that country they were driven to a false economy by the mixed government they had got. If the Government had a surplus, they gave it to the Provincial Councils to appropriate. The Shires Bill would have gone to the very root of Provincial Government. The Constitution Act provided that there should be a Superintendent and Council assembled every year, and a Provincial Executive ; but the Shires Bill said not a word about all these things. The honest opposition to the bill should have been to its principle, and not to the time of its introduction. Then they would come to the £25,000, which the General Government were prepared to make over to this province, whether they got it or not— that was another question. They had that sum in perspective to deal with, Be thought there was a little intrigue in that matter. The question was put from time to time to the Superintendent, whether it was to go into the revenue of the province, and he very properly answered that he was not prepared to say what was to become of the £25,000. He had a responsible Government, and he could not answer the question without taking their advice. What right had the General Assembly to appropriate that money in any given direction whatever ? He could have understood it if it had been given to the Provincial Government to deal with as they pleased. Surely the Provincial Government were as good judges of what was to be done with that money as fifteen members of the Assembly were. They were told they had got a cheap and nasty Government. He would not go into the question of "nasty Government," but he would say that, if they came under the General Government, they would have a dearer and a more incapable Government. He believed the Superintendent to be straightforward in the matter, and if the Provincial Council were only true to themselves they would rule the province and its affairs juBt as cheaply as Mr. Stafford could. If the General Government could do it cheap, why ouldnottheProvincialGovernment ? Let the Provincial Government and Council be their own masters. By handing over the province to the General Government they would be doing that which was not constitutional ; they would be betraying their rights and the best interests of the country. He was glad -to have that opportunity of addressing them, and of stating his views on that question, sothat when he chose to state his views in the Provincial Council he would not be misunderstood. He might just state that he would be a staunch and thorough provincialist, and be for governing themselves as long as they could. When unable to do bo, they could go to Mr. Stafford and ask for a " natty Government." The attempt to take the £25,000 for the railway was made with the view to embarrass the Provincial Government. Mr. O'Neill had opposed the railway from the beginning; it was an eye-sore to him. (Mr. O'Neilli : "It was not my motion.") The motion had his support, and he wanted the £25,000 to complete a work which he called an eye-sore and a bugbear. Let the Provincial Council have the money ; they were as good judges of how to dispose of the money as Mr. Stafford or the Chairman of Committees. When that motion was brought forward Mr. Carleton was in the chair. He was an opponent of the present Superintendent, and Mr. Graham was also an opponent of the Superintendent in that matter. An objection was taken on a point of order, that the House could not specially appropriate it in committee, not having been recommended by the Government. The hon. member for the Bay entered into a long disquisition, and it was ruled that the matter should be referred to the Speaker, who told the Chairman he was out of order. Why should the matter be referred to to the Attorney-General, when he was not a member of the House ? Mr. Cbkighton said Mr. Wynn was misstating facts. The Speaker was reported in the Hansard to have said that it was not a question on which he should be called to express an opinion. He declined to rule it as a question of order, as it was a question of law for the Attorney-General. Mr. Wynn said, with regard to the steam subsidies, he spoke the opinion of the great body of electors when he said that Mr. Macffarlane bad not fairly represented the interests of his constituents nor of the province at large. If the £25,000 had been appropriated to the railway — which was prevented by a mere fluke— it would have been detrimental to the province, and resulted in its absolute bankruptcy. That money might be the means of saving the province from that position whioh, it appeared to him, it was the intention of those gentlemen to bring it into. (Mr. ftxm. : "No.") That money might tide the province over its difficulties, but if spent on the railway the province would be hopelessly ruined. On that question both members had failed to give satisfaction to their constituents. Mr. Maoctablanb said Mr, Wynn had been misinformed. When the .question was discusied by the Auckland member*, Meisrt, William-

son, JJignau, O't.oilie, ami M.<j »r Ueaphy were present. That clause was Agreed to be introduced into the bill, and Mr. Williamson contented that Mr. Graham shouli bring it forward. Whatever the members did, and they might he wrong in judgment, they did it with the consent of Mecurs, Williamson, Dignan, O'JRorke, M»jor Heaphy, and he thought Mr. Hull, who were unanimous in regard to it. When the question was brought f<rwaid in the Howe, Major He»phy objeotei to the clause being inserted, and Mr. Mr. Pignan took a comtitational objection to ir, stating that they had no p'iwer to do it. On the question being referred to vlr. Carleton, he thought that, as it was a difficult question, they should take the opinion of th 6 Speaker tipnn it. The Speaker ruled that Mr. Carleton was right in his opinion, but, as there was a difficulty in the question, it would be as well to consult the AttorneyGeneral. Kather than risk the bill, as the next day was the last day of the session, they agreed to withdraw the clause. This wag done, and the bill was | assed Those were the facts. It had bf en inferred that they were in opposition to the No man in the provinoe wi-hed the Sunertut n lent more ruccens than he did ; and h»i had eude*voured to keep down di*tnr»anoes between Mr. Williamson aud others. He was not mixed up in debates in the Provincial Council, and he could speak to htm as others oould not do. He bad been received by the Superintendent with kindness, and his earnest desire was that the Superintendent should succeed in carrying on the affairs of the province. The Superintendent had admitted in the Home that he was over £30,000 to the bad last year !— that the provinoe was, in fact, bankrupt. The Superintendent had assured the other Auckland member* that he had no difficulty to see his way- to get out of the dilemma. They told him they left the matter entirely in his hands ; they were willing to do all they could to support him if he could see his way to oarry on the province for the future. Instead of being unfriendly to Mr. Williamson or the Provincial Council, they had the most sincere desire that the province should succeed in his hands, and that he should be enabled to raise it to a state of prosperity. Mr. Wynn did not)[mean to say that they were actuated by any unfriendly feeling. Mr. Cbeighton agreed with a good deal|that had fallen from Mr. Wynn, although he differed from him in some particular. He likewise differed from what had fallen from the two hon. members for the Northern Division on several particulars, and he thought his feeling in that respect was pretty generally shared in bji those present. He would' propose the following resolution :—": — " That the thanks of this meeting are due to the two hon. members for the Northern Division for calling together their constituents, although their constituents do not agree with them on all the points of their explanation." He thought the hon. members were deserving of the thanks of the community for setting an example to the members in the province to meet their constituents face to face, and discuss the questions that had engrged attention at the session of Parliament. Although they did not agree with the hon. members in all points, the effect of that meeting will be to produce a more kindly feeling between the members and their constituents. Although he believed there had been errors of judgment displayed by hon. members during the session, he thought they were actuated by a sincere desire to promote the public good. Mr. McKinstby seconded the motion. Mr. Wrigley was about to ipeak on the Looal Government Bill, when he was oalled to order. He said he would move as an amendment that he be heard. Mr. J. Ogilvie seconded the amendment, which was carried amidst laughter. Mr. Wiugley spoke in support of the principle of the Local Government Bill. He said that it did not matter to people in the country whether they had Provincial Councils or provincial law advisers or not, so long as they got their roads formed, which that bill would enable them to do. They did not want the paraphernalia of governmest, and believed that one government was cheaper than tan. Under the Local Government Bill the province would be divided into districts ; and if they raised £100 for public improvement, the Government would pay over £200, which would come out of the Customs threeeighths. Hitherto the money raised m districts was not expended in them, so that the sooner the proposed bill was passed the better it would be for the country. He moved, "That having heard the explanation of the members relative to their late vote upon the Local Government Bill, this meeting is of opinion that the principle embodied in this bill should be carried into effect as soon as possible." Mr. M. Shea, seconded the motion. The Provincial Government, he said, had never done* anything for the benefit of that division, and he did not see^ why the money raised should be spent in maintaining provincial institutions, while country districts were neglected. Mr. Wyjjn moved as an amendment, "That it is desirable to reduce t ixation to the lowest minimum to meet the cost of government over the country. " Mr. Cabman seconded the amendment, which was carried. Mr. Ooilvik said he was very much gratified at the members meeting them there to give an explanation, although he wat nob prepared to coincide in all they had stated. He moved, " That this meeting, without approving of all the votes of Messrs. O'Neill and Macffarlane, members for the Northern Division, in the late session of the General Assembly, thanks them for convening their constituents, and making an explanation at this meeting." Mr. Wynn seconded the motion, which wn carried' unanimously. A vote of thanks was passed to the chairman, and also to Mr. Niccol for granting the use of the building. The meeting then separated.