BIBLE IN SCHOOLS

Dominion, Volume 21, Issue 9, 5 October 1927, Page 5

BIBLE IN SCHOOLS

SUPPORT FOR THE BILL CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH ATTITUDE METHODIST MINISTER AND CRIME STATISTICS Evidence in support of the Religious Exercises in Schools Bill was given before the Education Committee of the House of Representatives yesterday by Ministers of the Congregational Church and the Wesleyan Methodist Church of New Zealand. The Rev. D. G. Miller, of Trinity Congregational Church, Christchurch,' said he represented the Congregational ■Church of New Zealand, which had officially approved of the Bill. There was not a minister of his Church aaginst it. Some years ago he, with other clergymen, joined in holding religious exercises in the Slate Schools at Napier. It was agreed to deal only with the life oi Christ. They could not deal with all the schools in tho district as they had not sufficient ministers. It was for that reason that he advocated the system proposed in tho Bill. Educationalists in posed in the Bill. Educationists in ligious exercises in schools. Ho claimed that tho system as carried out in Napier for some years was a great success. The Position of Teachers. 'To Mr. H. Holland the witness'said a knowledge of tho scriptures, even a very small one, was very necessary. The plain reading of God's Word would have a very good moral effect; He would have nothing to do with the Bill if he thought it would arouse sectarian feeling.

Tn answer to Mr. 11. T. Armstrong, witness said he did not think any teacher who was a nationalist or an agnostic would give religious instruction to children. He hoped .they would bo manly enough to tako advantage of the conscience clause. There must be no attempt to force teachers. . Their consciences must be honoured in every way. He did not think beause the churches had not enough ministers to do it that the duty of giving religious instruction should be unshed on to the teachers. As far as the teaching of children was concerned, lie did not think there was the least room lor denominationalism. To. Mr. T. Forsyth. Mr. Miller said that during his experience at Nanier he only remembered one or two children being kept out while the religious exercises were being taken. . Ho did not think there need bo the slightest friction in the working of the scheme in the Bill. In answer to Mr. W. .Tones he thought it would.be. entirely wrong to say that moral principles were not taught in the Dominion’s schools. ■ The system in tho Dominion was most admirable. Ho did not think tho Nelson system or the system be knew in Napier would bo bettor than that pronosed in the Bill. Mr. Jones: A teacher goes to a place in the country and refuses to give religious instruction. Ho is told no 1s not wanted. If this happens; two or throe times ho will get a reputation that wiß prejudice his prospects. Tho Rev. Mr. Miller agreed that might bo so. In any case tlio child should he considered before the teacher. Ho did not agree that Sunday Schools should be made compulsory. Tie. would never subscribe to the clergy being given the right of entry to tlio schools. There was danger of sectarianism if they were given tho right. When a child had asked him tho meaning of a passage ho had given it the dictionary meaning and had not touched upon doctrine in any way. Ho could have no obicction to the suggestion made by Dr. Cleary that the conscionco clause should bo reversed to provide that religious instruction should bo given to. the children whoso parents asked for it. Be • would welcome a confercuco of all the parties concerned. Replying to Air. P. Fraser, tho Roy. Mr. Miller said the lion. G. Fowlds was tho only member of his. church known to bo opposed to tho Bill. He believed there would die a certain amount of suffering for conscience sake on tho part of teachers and others. That was inevitable 1 and was part of tho price to be paid. Support of Protestant Churches.

The Rev. E. 0. Blamires,. Methodist Minister, and recently organising secretary for the 'Bible-iu-s'cliools League in Otago, said there were very, very tew ministers in Otago opposed to the Bill, verv few were neutral, and over HO per cent, were strongly in favour of it. Several Anglican clergymen thought the Rill did not go far enough. He thought the position in Otago could bo taken as indicative of the views ot the Protestant clergy from the North Capo to the Bluff, and that the same could bo said of the laymen. Jvepre. eentatives of bodies who hud SPOKCJJ against the Bill did not represent 20 per cent, of the population oi the Dominion. • The principles embodied in the Bill were not antagonistic to the principles of modern educational practice, 1 He recognised the vnluu of. the Nelson system on the principle that one-twentieth of a loaf was better than no bread. Thero'were, however, strong possibilities of religious strife under that system with complete freedom to teach on the part ot men lacking in a sense of honour. Nelson system, moreover, was subject to the whims of school committees, education boards and of voluntary workers. At tho present time it did not reach 5 per cent of the children of New Zealand. He claimed that with a few minor oxceptions the teachers would loyally do their part under the Bill. Ho 'rould approve of a conference of all patties, but ho feared in view of Bishop c, °" r X * well-known attitude that it would b abortive. •• “

Ambiguity in the Bill. To Mr. Atmore: He admitted that the final clause of tho Bill was ambiguous, and that, if carried, the Bill prevent the operation of the Nelson system. He could not sajl whether that was the intention of the framers of the Bill. He still held that the Nelson system did not give tfte Bible a. place in the school curriculum. He would be highly delighted, but not completely satisfied, if the Nelson system was taught in respect of 98 per cent, of the school children of the Dominion as in Nelson. He did not think it possible to get that proportion throughout the Dominion, particularly in the countiy districts. He paid a hearty tribute to the zeal of tho Roman Catholic oleigy in giving religious instruction to the school children of their faith. He recognised that tho New Zealand Educational Institute had changed its attitude, and was against the present Hill. , Replying to Mr. Fraser, witness said that Labour Governments in New South Wales had not attempted to abolish religious instruction in tho schools there. He would say there was a very definite connection between tho educational policy of a country and its crime i°~ cords. He had seen the statement of the inspector-general of police in New South Wales that there was a wholesome dread of the finger-print system amongst criminals, and that I’ lll '' was a direct cause of tho diminution of crime, and ho was prepared to admit that there was something in tbqt. There was a direct connection between religious instruction in schools and crime and morality. There was a tendency in tho illegitimate birth rate to decrease in Now South Wales, and to increase in Now Zealand. He hold that religious instruction in schools would tend to a decrease in crime and an improvement in moral standards. The Bold Prophet. During a discussion of the typo of manual to bo used in the schools, Mr. Fraser asked Mr. Blamires whether he would include certain Bible stories as, for instance, the story of the prophet who was "cheeked” by children, who were devoured by a bear Mr , As A linld.hfladad man

1 would not object to that story being given. (Loud Laughter.) Air. Fraser: You think it would inculcate a sound moral lesson. (Laughter.) The Committee adjourned till 10 a.m. to-day.