NAVAL DEFENCE

Dominion, Volume 13, Issue 269, 7 August 1920, Page 8

NAVAL DEFENCE

THE GOVERNMENT'S POLICY CRITICISED THE CRUISER CHATHAM LESSONS OF THE WAR When the naval defence voto was reached by tho House yesterday. Mr. Wilford (deputy-leader of tho Opposimoved a reduction of ,£1 as an indication that the proposed expenditure of .£260,0011 per annum on the upkeep of tho cruiser Chatham was unwarranted, unnecessary and absolutely useless. The Government, in a high-handed fashion, had committed tho country to a coetly and useless naval policy. The House had been given no chance to discuss Lord Jellicoe's report of 'to express an opinion on naval policy. "The honourable gentleman has put tho position .most unjustly and unfairly," said Mr. Massey. "Ho has raised tho whole party question in connection with tho cruiser Chatham." Mr. ilassey insisted that the House had received an opportunity to discuss the report on last year' 6 estimates and a further opportunity had been promised this session. fiis idea was that the discussion should be postponed until Lord Jellicoe arrived. Lord Jellicoe lad recommended that New Zealand 6hoUld secure three light cruisers, with certain destroyers and submarines, but that the full expenditure should be delayed until the reconstruction period was over. Tho Chatham would fit into that scheme, To say that the cruiser .would be useless was to neglect tho lessons of the war. Tho German raider Wolf had oome into New Zealand waters, and had destroyed three valuable ships, the Port Ivembla, the Wimmem, anil the Waimna. Tho raider probably would not have come if tho Chatham had been here. Mr. Wilford: They would have sent a ship fit to beat tho ChaV.hmam. Mr. Massey retorted that .this argument was not sound. The Germans had sont the Emden, which had not been fit to beat the Sydney. All the German raiders had been inferior to -the Chatham and tho Sydney, but they had dono an enormous amount of damage. They had cost Now Zealand 19 valuable ships, and thoy would have done more but for tho efforts of light cruisers of the kind represented by the Chatham. The House might not be aware that the transports conveying New Zealand's Main Body lind been shadowed. He had held in his hand a letter, written by a German, regretting that the Eniden had not been able to attain its "crowning achievement," which was to have been the linking ,of as many transports as possible. i The Chatham was being 1 given to the Dominion free of capital cost, added Mr. Massey. The vote was for maintenance, and he believed tho cruiser would be very useful at once in connection with the islands, while it would bo most valuable in case of war. Mr. Wilford proceeded to argue that the sound policy of New Zealand was to support the British Navy. The Chatham would be utterly useless. One up-to-date submarine would be more effective than this partially-obsolete cruißer. New Zea land could not maintain a really powerful naval force. An inferior force would be useless, 6ince an onemv would simply send a superior force. Th'e policy was unsound, and it had been adopted in tho wrong way.

Recommended b'y Admiralty. Mr. Massey said the policy was in accordance with law, in accordance with an agreement made between the British Government and the New Zealand Government before tho war .(when Sir Joseph Ward was Prime Minister), and in accordance with tho recommendations of the Admiralty. ; ." Mr, Burnett (Temuka) asked if tho cruiser woilld net pass under Admiralty control and leave New Zealand waters on the outbreak of war. ' Mr. Massey -replied that the Dominion Government would have; a voice. Dr. Newmnn (Wellington' East) joined in condemning the Government's policy. The Chatham would be costly, nnd ineffective. It would afford no real defence in time of war. The money oi:ght to be spent on submarines and aeroplanes. For the country to have one cruiser only was for it to have all its eggs in the ono basket. A few aeroplanes, ,1 few submarines, nnd plenty of mines would give much greater 'security. The question, according to Mr. G. Mitchell (Wellington South), was whether New Zealand was prepared to have the Chatham or to lmve nothing. In paying even tho cost of keeping the cruiser here, was the country paying anything more ljian.it owed to Britain for the protection of the British Navy The discussion was continued during the evening. Mr. Holland talked energetically about "militarism," and complained" that British officers had behaved basely in India. He had something to fiiiy of Pross censorship and New Zealand "Prussianists." He did not believe that New Zealand need fear Japan. Tho world's storm centrc would not chango to the Pacific unless the commercial interests controlling the world chose-,to make tlio change. Mr. R. A. Wright (Wellington Suburbs) found it rather curious that tho member for Hutt should have shown such approval when Sir Joseph Ward gave a Dreadnought to Britain without consult* I ing Parliament.

The War's Lessons. Mr. Maasey' said that 110 naval auttiorIty in the world liad yet stated that sub. marines could take the place of cruisers ami battleships. People who, like himself. had seen a destroyer hunting a submarino would realise that tho underwater craft had not one ehanco in a thousand in ail encounter with a fast and well-armed destroyer or cruiser. Ho (lid not believe that tho peoplo of New Zealand jvould be wise fo pin their faith to, submarines. The Empire's gteatest need during tho war had been cruisers. He could not forgot the experiences of the early days of tho war. The Houso would remember how the Main Body left Wellington und was brought back beeausa word had been received from a certain sourco that tho Pacific was not safe. Then came a message from another iwitrce asking that the troops should start again. Ho had felt his responsibilities as Prime Minister to bo heavy at tliat time. Ho had not folt untisfied that the Pacific was safe, and ho had made certain representations, which had resulted in tho Admiralty arranging for ah adequate escort. New Zealand had no suitable warship, and if the escort had \tot c-.ime ti:'ythdng might have happened. Ho would never co:sd to be grateful to tho Japanese for ivliat thoy did at that time.

> Pacific Naval Forcos. "This cruiser will not be Hie only British warship in tlie Pacific," added Mr. Massuy. "It will join with tho Australian ships. There will bij two British ships as well as this one coming into New Zealand wators. There will be several dostroyers and submarines. Most important of • 11 there will be battleships and batilo-crnis. crs. I am not givirg away uny secret in saying that, but I cannot Tiossibly givo any further information at present. It is not fair to suggest that xi e are relying for defence on one cruiser in our own waters. Tho Chatham will l)'o only one part—and a very small part —of the Empire's naval defence forces in the Pacific." The question was whether or not tho Dominion was going to do its duty by talcing a part of the burden of naval defence. The Trade Routes. Mr. Wilford told the Houeo that he believed the next war would require tho presence of strong British naval forces in tho Pacific. Tho trade routes of the Pacific would be line 9 of attack. If any enemy forass came to New Zealand they would bo powerful enough to rentier the Chatham utterly useless. Ho objected to tho proposed expenditure, because it would not givo the Dominion any adequate defence. The sound policy would bo to hand the mono}' to the Imperial Government, to bo expended in tho payment of interest On the cost of ships of tho kind considered by the Admiralty exports to bo necessary. Mr. 'Glenn (Itangitikei) suggested that laymen in the House were scarcely qualified to criticise a. proposal inn do by tho

Government on the recommendation of such an authority ns Lord .lcllicoe. Tho Government was in possession of Lord Jellicoe's confidential reports. The 1110111. bers of Now Zealand's Expeditionary LVrce wero well aware of the value of the protection that cruisers had been able to afford along_ tho ocean routes during the war. He did not regard the proposed expenditure as at all an extravagant sum to 'bo paid for naval defence by a country which had a huge overseas trade. The Minister of Defence (Sir Ileaton Rhodes) pointed out that the maintenance of ten submarines and n parent ship would cost nearly £100,000 a yenr. 110 Tead a letter from a German sailor aboard tho Scharnhorst, showing that the presence of Australian warships in the South Pacific had saved Australian and New Zealand ports from being raided during the war. The Germans had not doubted the defensive value cf cruisers in these waters. , No Secrecy. Mr. Massey entirely repudiated the suggestion that his dealings over the Chatham had been conducted with any secrecy. His tentative arrangement with the head of the Admiralty had been mentioned in tho House at least a. dozen times last session. Ho had mentioned it, and thero had not been a discordant note. Why was there a discordant note now? It had been said that he did not give Parliament an opportunity to discuss Lord Jellicoe's report. That report had been laid 011 the table last session, and it was well known to members that the tnbling of a report gave an opportunity for discussion. Ho would not-claim that in this case there had been a very good opportunity, since the session had been such a busy ono and, had ended so shortly. It had been understood, however, that he would givo the House an opportunity this session to discuss tho report exhaustively. He would do so. He believed that the right time for tho discussion would be after Lord Jellicoe's arrival. Mr. Massey added that tho Chatham'would be manned by New Zealand sailors as soon as they became available. Ho believed that there were no better sailors in the world than the New Zealanders, pakcha and w. D. Stewart (Dunedin West) laid stress upon the fact, that the new naval policy embodied the principle of personal service It was a fai linei thine than the "casli-over-the-e.mmtei system that enabled the Dominions 0 my to tho Old Country: . Here is the money; you .defend us. At 10.50 p.m. Mr. Wilford's amendment was . rejected on the voices, and tho vote was passed.

PUBLIC SERVICE INCREASE STATEMENT AS TO PAYMENT. A rumour that temporary clerks in the Public Service would ho granted only one-half ot the new increase payable on House Yesterday. The Prime Minister said he was glail to be able to state that the rumour was not coiiect. The Ira porary clerks would receive the .lull 9 Another question asked of Mr. M assc £ elicited the information that membeis. of the New Zealand Army Ordnance Corps would shave i n the incrcass. • In reply to n further question, 5 . Massey said that the payment of the bonus to monitors of the Public, heiuce outside the. Engine-drivers Firemen ami Cleaners' Association would not be de lived bv the fact that the L.K and C.A. ballot on the acceptance of the ment's terms was still uiconipletc hile the Treasury is prepared to pa> out now" said Mr. Massey, "the, arrangements will not bo complete before the end of next week or the beginning of he week following that. Monday week is the date on which we expect to commence 'the payment to the Government services." " THE IDEAL COMMONWEALTH " BUT WHO WILL DEFEND IT? After hearing Mr. H. Holland of the Parliamentary Labour 1 ar W " lia Mr W E. Parry (Labour membi'r for Auckland Central) express their views 011 naval defence, llr. W. D. Stewart (Dun. edin West) liad some pertinent ohscivations to make m the House la»l « Rb • "I find it difficult, ho said, to understand really what the labour lariy« nolicv Is on tins vital question. Jt pceml to me that if there is one, parly moro than another that is deeply eon cerned m arriving a sound on such a question as tin*. U ? s Ul ° labour Party; because their hope i»that some day will capture the lica--Bury'benches,'and will build iU> nn ideal commonwealth in this Dominion that mil be the enfy of tho world. \Mial pe will, it all bo to them it they are going to neglect the primary .fuiicuioi. iorwhich every Government comes into existence' Tho whole origin ot government was the neccssjty that a community should ■ defend itself agams. f ol '^ ll gression. That is the most function that any Government still finds it necessary ti> perforin. BOWLED' OUT ME. WILEOIiD'S MISTAKE. When the House of PvcpresentaUves Was Mill" into committee on tlie Jistimates! the Acting-Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Wilford) found an opportuni y to suggest that the collapse of the Financial Debate had not been accidental on tho part o.f the Opposition. Ihc Government Whips; were informed by the Liberal Whip that no other Libeial intended to speak," lie said. Mr. Massey: That is not mute correct. Mr. AVilford: It is. • Mr/lorbes after consultation with mo, informed tho IReform Whip that there won d be no fuither speakers on the Liberal side. Air. Massey: That is not; tho messago that readied me. Iho messago that reached me was that no one \\as read} at the minute on tho Libera\ side. Mr Wilford: That afternoon. Mr. Massey: I know and ; he honourable member' knows that at least half a dozen members on that side "\vero pieparing their speeches. Mr Wilford: Tho honourable menibei was 'informed that no Liberal member would speak that afternoon. Mr Massey said that he might as well clear" up the matter When lie noticed that the debate was likely to collapse ho asked his Whips to inform tho members on the Liberal benches and Labour benches of tho pesition. Members That is correct. Mr. Masscv: When Mr. Huntor sat down I got the opportunity to reply, and tho debate ended. I don t know what wis tho object of the honourable member in making tho statement ho just made. 110 is mistaken, at any rate.

PROSPECTS IN BUTTER PRICES A question on the prospects regarding tho price of butter was put to tho Primo Minister in the House Inst night. Mr. IMassey replied tliat negotiations between tho producers on the ouo hand and tho Eooil Controller and tho Board of Trade in Britain on tho other were still proceeding. Whilo lie happened to know the "inside" «f what had so far taken place,' it was quite impossiblo to say anything at present. Ho did not think any definite announcement could bo made for a week at least—more likely for a fortnight. The matter must, however, iliiko simps during tliis month, bccauso tiie 6M£un was going on, and the production of butter would presently assume very largo dimensions. Soon it would be known exactly where tilings stood, and arrangements could bo made accordinglyMORE MENTHAN .WOMEN "I wish to correct an impression that has "gone abroad from this House that tlure are 20,000 more women in New Zealand than meii," said the Prime Minister yesterday. Mr. Masscy announced that tho Government Statistician had supplied him with figures showing that on December 31 last tho number of males exceeded tho number of femnlea by approximately 13,000. The figures regarding persons 15 years of ago and over were: Males, 406,880 j femaUs, 390,22-1; excess of males over females, 10,051!. Mr. Holland (JJullcr;, who admitted that it was he who had made tho statement just corrected, explained tli'at tho only publication he had been ablo to con- ' suit regarding tho figures was tho last Year Book. Mr, Massey: The soldiers wero away at i that time.