PARLIAMENT.

Dominion, Volume 7, Issue 2220, 5 August 1914, Page 4

PARLIAMENT.

BANKING AMENDMENT BILL

A WHITE DOMINION BANKING AMENDMENT BILL '■.;.,• LOCAL ELECTIONS ... i - ".'•_— PROPORTIONAL REPRESENTATION FOR LOCAL BODIES. The House of (Representatives met-at 2.30 p.m. The Presbyterian Church Property Act Amendment Bill (Mr. G. M. Thomson) and tho Methodist Charitable and Education Trusts Amendment Bill (Mr. J. Bollard) were read a third time. ' The'Hon/Sir- J. Carroll gave notice' of the Wairoa Harbour Board .Empowering Bill. : ' \ The Riccarton Bush Bill (Mr. T. H. Davey) was introduced and read a first time. . '_ CUSTOMS AMENDMENT. The Cuetoms Act Amendment Bill was introduced by Governor's Message, and read a first time. In reply to Mr. G. W. Russell, Tho Hon. F. M. B. FISHER explained that the Bill was the same as introduced by him earlier in the session. It was afterwards found necessary'to have a, Governor's Message.

NOTES MADE LEGAL TENDER • BAMS NEVER MORE SOUND

The Hon. J. ALLEN claimed urgency for the Banking Amendment Bill, and asked that it bo allowed to proceed forthwith. ■

The House went into Committee on the BUI. '

Mr., H. G. Ell asked for an explanation of Clause 2, making bank notes legal tender. Hβ asked what provision was being made at the Treasury to redeem the notes.

The Hon. J. Alien- said that six months would elapse before tho Treasury would be compelled to change the notes. He also had a new clause, preventing the export of gold if the Minister wished to do so. N

Mr. T. M. Wilford said lie would like to bring under the notice of the Minister a grave matter of interest-to the Dominion, especially in view of the present state of affairs. The Government realised that the safety and siio pess. of the trading operations of the country , were largely linked up with lending institutions. There were a large number of those institutions taking deposits, which were invested in mortgages. Hβ believed the business was absolutely satisfactory, but the point was that, in the case of some absurd phase of panic, the banks, as well as the lending institutions, might not be able to meet all calls at notice. He thought the Government , should consider the question of guaranteeing both the banks .and the lending institutions on the thiy had made, and hypothecate the security, under which the money, was lent. If the State guaranteed those investments it would bring about .a,,-condition of seourity. The Government would not have to find the money, but simply to guarantee it. The Government, by the aid of the Valuation Department, and the Audit officers, would quickly be able to report on the securities which would have- to be hypothecated. By .doing as he suggested,, a feeling of security would be obtained by small, timid investors, who ia times of unrest wereliable to tako their money and put it in }pse secure places, Mr; Allen said that he did not think it was , necessary to adopt tho suggestion at tho present time. The provisions of the Bill were ample for safeguarding all the possible occurrences mentioned. If the guarantee was given to lending institutions, it would be hard to say where to draw the line. If any further step was required it would receive serious consideration. \ Exportation of Cold. A new clause, providing that during a period limited by Proclamation, under the Act, the exportation of gold should bo limited, except by the consent of the Minister of Finance, was added by the- Minister, and read a second time. The Bill was reported with other machinery amendments. : '. SIR : JOSEPH WARD (Awarua) said that he agreed that there was no occasion for any anxiety by the people in this country. He wanted to say that, under ordinary conditions, a measure of the sort proposed was a very good thing. . In times out of tho ordinary it was equally in the general interests of the country. . He wanted to tako the opportunity of saying that the whole of the banks of this country were very strong institutions, capable of doing the whole business of the country in the ordinary way. When Parliament was almost unanimous in desiring to nave legislation of that kind, to ensure great stability in the country, then he wanted' to say that it behoved those responsible for the control of those institutions to do all in their powor to prevenTi the people becoming unfriendly, through the unduly forcing up of the rate of interest. He did not believe they wanted to do that. Every section was vitally interested in the smooth working of the great financial institutions, and the people of the country were vitally ed in having' a rate of interest ruling that would enable the average man to carry on his operations \yithout feeling that an unduly high rate of interest was forced upon him.: A word from the Minister of Finance* expressing to the public that' every effort would be made to keep things upon a normal level in this country would! 1 add enormously to the welfaro of this Dominion, even.if the worst happened. . ; ' Mr. H. G. Ell. (Christchurch South) said that according to tho latest returns there were notes to the amount of £1,169,680 in circulation, but against that thero was coined gold to the amount- of £5,282,527, and bullion to the amount of £217,933, so that the public had , no cause for uneasiness. Mr. ..Ell declared himself strongly of opinion that the Minister of Finance .ought to have power, within certain necessary limits, to expand the noto issue. - MR. ALLEN IN REPLY. BANKS WERE NEVER SOUNDER. "The MINISTER, in replying, said that when the Bill-was brought down, as honourable would recollect, everything.was peaceable and there was no anticipation of the trouble which had subsequently arisen. (Hear, hear.) The Bill was not, there- , fore, brought in as a matter of great urgency, although ho had asked, and the House had kindly consented, that the Bill should be put through at that sitting. It was better out of tho way. (Hear, hear.) He quite' agreed with what the Leader of the Opposition had said. Already ho had seen some bank managers and he thought ho could give an assurance to the House that neither the bank managers, the Government, nor -any member of Parliament were likely to lose their heads in any situation that might arise. They could go Qα in quiet .coiifidcuco that the couu-

try was sound, and that the banking institutions were sound—sounder today than they had ever been in tho Ihst tc-ry of Ohis . country. Not only were tho bauking institutions in New ; Zealand sound, but the Australian banks were in a particularly sound position. They had been preparing for a drought which had not come- and were in. a very etrong position indeed. The bank •with which the Government was con- , liQcted had of course means in London and it_ had taken a step in London which it was not wise for. him to disclose, but which,-in His opinion, would enormously strengthen its position there, '"i'he public," Mr. Allen ,con.tinued, ."may rest fully assured that our banking institutions are in a thoroughly sound position to-day,- and I hope that tho people, realising that, will also have the 6ame confidence themselves that the bank managers tave. I am quite certain that whatever difficulties or crisis may arise, if we only keep •our heads no very serious trouble — no trouble at all—need arise for us financially. (Hear, hear.) It may be that if extreme steps are taken in Europe _ and we are plunged into war difficulties, the people of this country may be called upon to make some sacrifice, but I don't think that they will bo heavier than the people of a young country should be prepared to make to uphold their country and the Empire to which it belongs." Replying to Mr. Ell's suggestion regarding tho expansion of tho note issue Mr. Allen said that he did not think there was any necessity for such a provision. At present the banks had not issued notes up to. the full amount allowed by law. It appeared that the facilities under the, present law were ample for all requirements. If he did not think so he would at once come to the House- and eay i so. Finally the • -Minister stated that if 'it were necessary to take any •further step to keep this country and its banking institutions thoroughly sound the Government would not;neglect that step. They were not losing sight of_ the possibility of having to ask Parliament for some further legislation," but he did not think it neceßsary at the present tin\e, and it might not be necessary at all.

The Bill was read a third time and passed oh the voices. PROPORTIONAL REPRESENTA" TION. FOR LOCAL BODIES. .'."' • The Hon. F. M. B. FISHER moved the second reading of the Local Elections (Proportional Representation) Bill, •tie said mat the proposal for proportional representation, in an optional form, for local bodies, emanated from the Uhristchurch City Council. He-had received complaints from local "bodies on the grounds tlhat they were unable to understand the schedule. That was a very feeble complaint. All that was asked of the elector was the exercise ol a. small degree of common sense. ; The Bystem might be described briefly as being the 'i'asmanian system, with a slight amendment, not making it neceesary to extend the preference through tjlio whole list. A transferable vote was provided for up to the number three. Plumping was stopped under the ■ Bill. If they applied the Tasmauian system, and extended,the preferenco vote'over tho whole list, many people, owing to a dislike for one candidate, would refrain from voting. The true value of the Bill, he thought, was that it would enable some borough to give a first-hand trial of the effect of proportional representation. If, after one or two had tried it, and it was found a success, it would probably be extended even to tho House of Representatives. Mr. G. Witty: Are you going to bring in a Bill to that effect this year? Mr. Fisher; No, I think not. I propose to have the experiment tried.on the ■ less important body first. „; The schedule was highly technical, and "he would not discuss it till it came up in Committee. -■■ ' ,

Mr. G. W. RTJSSELL (Avon) thought! the feeling of the House would be to pass ,the second reading, in order' that a fair trial could be given to it. He thought it very likely that the Christohurqh. City Council would, give it. a trial. He suggested that a committee should be 6et up to deal with the wliolo question of the counting of the votes. Expert evidence could then be taken, to Bee if the system proposed under the Bill was the best. He supported the principle of the Bill, and said that tjhere was a strong feeling throughout the country to- extend it to the House of Representatives.. Mr. A. E, GLOVER (Auckland Central) expressed vhe views' of the Auckland City Council as against the Bill. In view of tho representations made, he offered a protest against it. It would complicate matters if it was carried. Mr. G. WIITY (Riccarton) supported the Bill. An explanation, he thought, Efliould have been !*iven of the schedule, to allow the public to understand v-.the method of voting. ■ "..■,". : Mr. J. H. ■ EkADNEY (Auckland West) said that there had been a great desire to experiment in legislation. In view of the expressions against the system, he thought they should be careful before adopting it. Of course there , was the safeguard -ijhat the adoption of it was only optional on local bodies. . Held Down by ignorance. ' The Hon. P. M. B. FISHER, in reply, said that New Zealand was a country in which they should not be afraid to express originality. The measure was one which had been held down by ignorance, and now that an enlightened Government occupied the benches,' the measure was going to have a trial. The report of the Auckland Registrar, which had been quoted, was the report of one who, apparently did not. know much about the system. If the proposal was a failure, after a trial, he would reserve to himself the right to change his mirid ■on it. The Bill was the result of the best advice on electoral reform, and he did not favour sending the Bill to a special committee. A. The Bill was read a second time on tho voices. • ■

CIVIL SERVICE GUARANTEE.. PENALISING ACT REPEALED. The Hon. A. L.HERDMAN (Attor-ney-General) moved tho second reading of the Civil Service Officers' Guarantee Repeal Bill. lie said that for many years a system had been in vogue- in this country, which provided that when any officer in the Public Servico had been guilty of peculation and left, the Putflic Servants should make up the amount which tho defaulting Public Servant had made use of. The Government considered that was unfair. The principle seemed to be grossly unfair, that when one "officer had proved unfaithful to his trust, every officer should be obliged to pay out of his.own means a sum of money to make up that deficiency. The experience of the working of the principle now existing was that about £400 or £500 had to be made up each year. Tho amount the individual officer, had to pay was small, but thero was a considerable feeling of irritation under the measure, and it was proposed to repeal it. SIR JOSEPH WARD (Awarua) supported the Bill. The conditions to-day, he said, were very different to those oxisting' when tho present system was introduced, Ho wanted to remove any possible 'reflection which might bo held by people outside Parliament to rest upon those responsible for tho measure it was proposed to repeal. The Bill was read a second time on tho voices. . '■' ■ IMMIGRATION RESTRICTION. TO KEEP OUT UNDESIRABLES. The Hon, F, M, B. FISHER "(Minister of Custom*), moved the second.

reading of the Immigration Restriction Amendment Bill. Under the, • present law, lie said, any person of British origin, and Asiatics who were able to pass a test imposed, were ablo to gain entrance into the Dominion. A great many people who might claim a right under existing conditions, but who were altogether undesirable, had flocked into t'he Dominion. Restriction was imposed under the Bill to keep out illiterate Hindus. Other alterations with regard to the. educational test were mado. For instance, the test was to be read by the applicant, and not written, for it had been , found under the present conditions, that illiterate Asiatics wero able to copy the printed test, without '. understanding a word in it. The unfortunate thing was that these people came into the country and w*re unable to make a livelihood. Under these ciroumstances it was thought advisable toi exclude them. There was also provi-j sion, in a new clause, to make it possible to say that if the presence of insanity or contagious disease was found in the immigrant within- two , months after his landing, it could be supposed that that insanity; or contagious dieease was present when 'he was admitted. Personally he thought that an extended time would be preferable, but there were ■difficulties in the way to doing that. ' The intentions of the Government in the Bill had been communicated to the Imperial Government,, and there was nothing in it to which exception might be taken. A White Dominion. SIR JOSEPH "WARD (Awarua) expressed himself in accord with the views expressed to keep the country' white. He was prepared to support the Bill, but was not in a position to • comment widely on it. Whether it was advisable or not to pass it rested on, the Government, The Bill Commended! Mr. 0. A. WILKINSON (Egmont) commended the Bill, but said that care should be taken not to block the immigration of people like the Swiss, quite a number of whom were now coming to this country, and made very good citizens. Ho was strongly of opinion that the immigration of Hindus should be blocked. Mr. J. A. YOUNG (Waikato) said that the Bill would do all that was required. In particular, it would terminate the immigration of people of an undesirable class, who had lately been coming into New Zealand from Fiji. SIR WALTER BUCHANAN (Wairarapa) said that this Billwould prevent such a situation arising in this country as had arisen in Canada in regard to Hindu immigration. He trusted that the provisions relating to shipping companies would be fully enforced. Mr. FISHER, in reply, said that the question of domicile had been looked into with extreme care. An ex. New Zealander, who returned to the country, would always be allowed to Jand. Provision was made to meet such cases by Order-in-Council. Mr. WILFORD said that this would' not apply to an ex-New Zealander. who had become an American citizen by residence and naturalisation in the United States.. Mr. Fisher: I don't know that we ought to make provision- to meet that. The Bill was read a second time on the voices. THE HOUSE ADJOURNS. When the next item of business, the Crimes Amendment Bill, was called, The PRIME MINISTER said that ho was' going -to.'.move the adjournment or the House. He did not propose to take any contentious matter that night. - In the present feeling of unrest, the thoughts of members wero rather upon the Euro* pean situation than in the House. . ' The Houserose.at, 5 p.m., and stands adjourned until 2.30 p.m. to-day.