THE HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 5, Issue 1508, 2 August 1912, Page 6

THE HOUSE.

CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES. The Hauso of Representatives met at 2.30 p.m. ; , : The PRIME MINISTER intimated that • on next sitting day ho would move that I Mr. J*. AV. Lang be appointed Chairman oi'-Committees. THE FINANCIAL STATEMENT. I Mr. H. J. H. OKEi" (Taranaki) notified i that he would askj the Prime Minister to forward sealed copies of tho Financial Statement to postmasters throughout the country, with instructions to deliver them i to editors of all newspapers at the time appointed lor the delivery of the \ Statement. . DEFENCE MATTERS, • Mr. L. M. ISITT (Christchurch Noa-th) asked the Prime Minister whether ho i -would i'urnisli the House with an cany opportunity of discussing'tho whole question of defence. ' The PRIME /MINISTER reminded the lion, gentleman that lw would have an opportunity of discussing defence matters utter tlio presentation of tho 'financial Statement. There would bu another op- • portunity in tho discussion upon tho Estimates," and still another at the end of each , month when <in Imprest Supply Bill came J up l'or consideration.- If these opportunities were not sufficient, lie would take tho -.request of the lion, gentleman into favour'lbio consideration. THE EGMONT ELECTION. Mr. 0. \\. RUSSELL (Avon) said that an election would shortly thke place in tho Egmont district, and asked whether it ivas intended that the election should take place under this law as it stood—the law providing for a second ballot—or whether the Government intended to bring down . electoral legislation which would enable \ an election to be taken either under the ■-old single ballot system or some other system. The PRIME MINISTER said that he had to thaalc the hon. gentleman for calling his attention to the possibilities at Egmont. As an ex-Minister, the hon. gentleman would recognise that this was a question of policy, anil all that ho could at present was that the matter was receiving the very careful consideration of the Government. (Laughter.) COMMITTEES AND PARTIES. The Hon. .AV.: H.' lIER.RIES moved to set up a Native Affairs Committee of 11 members. Sir JOSEPH AA'AR.I) (Awarna) pointed out that the ecmmitteo proposed consisted of U members instead of 10 as here- - tofore, and that eight of its members were. Government supporters. Ite asked the Government whether they were aware that tho allocation of members to com- • mittoes was not in proportion to the composition of the House. Hon. \V. H. Herries: I certainly do not knovj that! ! Sir Joseph AA'aril: The hon. gentleman '■knows it .now! ■ Mr. Herries: No, I don't! THE OPPOSITION CROWDED. Sir JOSEPH AVARD (Awarua) complained to the Speaker that the Opposition Whips' room was quite inadequate for the present party. (Laughter,) He n-.is stating what was a' fact. The number of chairs in. the room was 18, while, i ns a matter of fact, thero wera 32 memb?hs who required accommodation' in that room. It wa3 utterly impossible fdr all the members of the Opposition party as things now stood to get into the from. Mr. Speaker replied that he would endeavour to find a larger room for the Opposition, but that it was difficult to know where to find it. Sir Joseph AVard said that he assumed that if the required accommodation, could not. be foiindlil the Houso a room would be rented l'or the use of the Opposition. THE LICENSING BILL, Mr. A. S. MALCOLM (Clutha) moved (.far fjr;t reading of the Licensing Act, i 1M?, JUaendment BiLL

Sir JOSEPH WARD (Awarua) asked leave to put a question without notice. Hi was proceeding to state that ho did not wish to discuss such a question as Licensing under (he wing of a private member, when Air. Alalcclm raised a point of order, Tlic Speaker ruled that a member putHue a question was not entitled to introduce debatable matter. Sir Joseph Ward went on to say thai he did not know whether tho hon. gentleman was sincere. Air. Alalcolm again raised a point of order,, and tho-Speaker stated that it was -Always ruled out of order to question the sincerity of a member. . Sir Joseph Ward assured tho member for Clutha that he knew him to be,sincere. But he wanted to ask tho Prime Minister whether he was sincere. Did the Government propose to introduce licensing-legislation this session? The I'PJ.ME AUNISTEK. In reply to the hon. gentleman, I may say that the Government has no intention of introducing a Licensing Bill' this session," POLICE PROMOTIONS. Sir JOSEPH-WARD (Awarua) asked the Minister'for Justice what methods of promotion wero followed in the police force. . It had been represented to him that juniors' had been passed over the heads of qualified seniors. The Hon. A. L. HERDAIAiV replied that if any cases had occurred in which incompetent juniors had been promoted over the heads of their, seniors, it must have been done under previous Administrations. It had nut happened under tho present Government. He understood the position to be that-the'Commissioner was always guided by seniority in making promotions, but'there must'be cases in a service employing 820 men.when juniors of exceptional qualifications had-to receive consideration. . •! . Mr. T. H. Davey: Is the Commissioner, the sole judge? ' The .Minister replied in the negative, but added that lie was sure the hon. g'fntleman .would recognise' that a Minister of the Crown must be guided to a largo extent by a'responsible Commissioner. He intended that henceforth the Commissioner of Police should not remain stationary in Wellington, but should travel round New Zealand and make' himself acquainted with tho personnel of the police force. ; / POLICE APPEALS. Air. T. At. WJLFOED (Hut,t) asked whether the Minister intended to set up an appeal board for tho police force. The AIINISTER said that it Was prorepeal the Police I'orce Act, and substitute a new Act, which had been drawn, and was now in the hands of the' Crown Law Officers. In the now Bill'a clause had been inserted which gave polico ollicors the right to have their grievances ventilated. Xo board of appeal was sot up under the Bill, but members of tho force were given the right of appeal from the decision of fin officer who did not hold a high grade. LEASES IN PERPETUITY. Mr. T. 11. WILPORD (Hutt) asked whether the Prime Minister would furnish a return showing the number of original tenants under the 999 years'lease, and the, number of cases in which there had been no alienation of >these leases. The PRIME AIINISTER said that if the lion, member applied for the return in tho ordinary way the Government would consent to its being furnished. - LAND AGENTS' BILL.' READ A SECOND TIME. Air. G. WITTY (Riccarton) moved the second reading of the Land Agents' Bill. [ He remarked that it had already been several times before the House, ilo was intent not so much on protecting land agents as on protecting the public against the unscrupulous land, agent, against whom tiie public had no such protection as they had against auctioneers. Honest land agents favoured the Bill. Land, agents often raised land to a fictitious price by their ignorance of its true value. This Bill differed little from th;it of last year. It provided that land agents should obtain licenses from magistrates, instead of from- local bodies as provided in the Bill of 1911. t Mr. IS. M'CALLUM (Wairau) raised a point of order, asking whether the Bill was in order, seeing that one of its clauses provided for a license fee of £2. The SPEAKER said that tho second reading was ill order, but that if tho Bill contained any taxation proposals it would have to be approved by tho Crown before passing its third rending. Air. Witty said that if he hod not known that tho Bill was all right lie would not have introduced it. He was sorry that his legal friend had "fallen in" so badly. Air. Witty explained the provisions of the Bill in detail, and expressed a hope that the Government would take it up. Mr. J. PAYXE (Grey Lynn) said that tho land agent was one of the parasites of the present system. Any restriction that could be nlaecd upon such individuals must appeal to the whole of the people of this, countrv and ,to all members who were equitably minded. Air. A. HARRIS (Waitemota) eaid that the time had come when the status of the profession of land agent should'be raised. Ho congratulated the member for Riccarton upon introducing the Bill. Air. Harris denied that land agents were parasites, and mentioned that he was himself a, la ml agent. He considered that tha Bill, with tome necessary amendments, should be supported by the Government and tho House. The bulk of the people desired that the status of land agents should be raised, and- genuine land agents wanted something of the sort proposed bv the Bill. The Hon. D. BUDDO (Kaiapoi) said that if the Bill was to proceed further it would require Amendment, and ho outlined certain minor modifications which ho thought desirable. Tho fee to be charged for the licenso was too small. lie did not t>elievo the feo should be a very big one, but ,£2 did not seem to him sufficient. Ho thought tho Bill would meet a real want, and he hoped it wouui go through. Air. 1". MANDJ-'tt (Marsdcn) said ft wn? the desire of land agents that some such Bill should bo passed for the protection of themselves and tho public, and ha had much pleasure in supporting it. Air. G. W. RUSSELL (Avon) supported Air. Witty's suggestion tliut the Government should take the matter up and give it. consideration. Tha Bill w'ould reach tho authorised land agents, but it would not reach any of the men who were merely occasional land sellers,, in addition to carrying on other business. The provisions of the Bill did not seem to discipline .dishonest land brokers, and this was why he urged that the Government should take up the Bill and give it eveTy consideration, • > The Hon. VP. P. MASSEY (Prim* Minister) said he did not wish to impede the progfess of the Bill thro, Ugh it; second reading. It seemed to him a verj important Bill, and he would suggest t'c Air. Witty that the Bill should be referred to the Lands Committee. It w,-i< not the class of Bill usually referred It tho Lands Committee, but the committer might mako useful inquiries, and Tcporl to tho House. If the report were favour able, the progress of tho Bill might h< made a great deal easier. The Hon. A. L. HERDALVX (Ministei for Justice) said the Bill was one o: much merit, and similar legislation wa; in force In England. He was afraid, how ,«vcu that tha fidelity, bond of ,£SOO Troyls

prevent all Imt wealthy people from carrying nn the busine.--: of a land agent. There might be honest men who could not lind Hit! amount. of this guarantee. .Mr. Iv. WILSON ITaiinijirunui) supported the Hill. He did mil think, however, that the fee.-- paid should bo devoted entirely to c-h:i lit it itlis aid. The issuing til' in nil agents' lilt-UK's should be left to the local'bodies as were auctioneers' licences. .Air. .1. A. YOUNG (Waikalo) said that the Hill was necessary, not: t> raise the status of land agents—Hint lliey could tlo for therowives—but lo protect people who had land for sale: Tie thought land agents should not b-e allowed to become purchasers when land was put int.-s their hamls, inn' should they be allowed to make bogus sales. Mr. G. WITTY (Riccarton), in reply, tha,nlceii members for the reception given to the Bill. lie would b-e very pleased to accept the suggestion made by the I'rimo Minister. The Bill was read a. second time 011 the voices, ami referred to tlio Lamb Ccin- . uiittce.

LEGISLATURE AMENDMENT BILL.

AN ATTACK UPON THE PRESS/ A WAIiJI DISCUSSION. Jlr. A. H. Hindmarsli (Wellington South) moved the second reading of the • Legislature; Amendment Bill. He explained that the .Bill was of hvo parts. One provided lor penalties against newspaper proprietors for tlio publication of certain matter at election times, anil the other provided for tho regulation of the expenditure of money. In elections now a candidate's expenditure was stringently regulated, but- others could spend unlimited amounts.in his interest. It would also prevent'the expenditure of money by associations of various kinds by ensuring that all organisations, including trades unions, anil the United Labour Party should bo obliged to inako a return of every penny expended on elections. If there was to be purity of elections, the expenditure of money must be minimised. Newspaper proprietors should 1 also be required to supply returns of matter paid for at elections, and all articles commenting on elections should be signed by the writer. Jlr. Hindmarsli waxed indignant about the newspapers. He objected to being "grossly insulted by tile paid pimp of a gang of wealthy men, sometimes bitter, envious, old men " Jlr. Buchanan: Hear, hear. Jlr. Hindmarsh: "Trembling on the brink of the grave, more fit fjr prayers than anything else. They hire men to hurl their curses throughout the land." Government members laughed. "Whereupon Jlr. Hindmarsli shouted: "You aro on . the side of the big paper. You are air right." Opposition members: Hear, hear. -Mi\ Kindmarsh (pointing to the Opposition side): "There are big papern on that side, too—n:o)tey on that side, too. We stand without any papers to support us." Jlr. Hindmarsh was interrupted by Jlr. Wilford, who asked that the lion, member would speak so .(lmt he might be heard. Mr. Hindmarsh was.shouting at the time consistently, but lie steadied his voice later. Mr. J. PAYNE (Grey Lynn) supported tho Bill. Jlr. A. S. MALCOLM (Clutha) pointed out that the mere signing of article? would not protect the poor man from persecution, nor curtail the power of wealth. Anonymity was the refuge of the poor man, who would otherwise bo persecute!! for writing what he knew to be true. The wealthy man could still hire someone to write and sign for him. He was as anxious' as anyone to curtail the power of wealth, but Jlr. Hindmarsh's Bill would fail in its object. kIR. LAIIRENSbN AGAIN. ' IX HIS USUAL STYLE. Mr. G, LAUKENSOX (Lyttellon) spake of what ho described as the ilvterioration of the press, its tactics in vilifying politicians, .and the fact that all the newspapers were being bought up by the wealthy men, tho representatives of tho classes of privilege. He contended that there could l>e 110 hardship in asking a man to sign his name to what, lie wrote. A cowardly editor might but a brave 0119 could not do so.' Jlr. Laurefison spoke at some length on tho subject of an editorial published in The Dominion' 011 December 23. He declared tliit the article demanded information as to when "Joseph Ward, his wife, and family," were going, to vacate the houso they wore living ill, and reminded them that the houso was not their property, but that of tho nation. There was not a man sitting 011 the Government benches, Jlr. Laurenson declared, who did not repudiate that sort- of thing. It was due to that sort of thing that public life was being dragged down into tho mud. What had reduced the tone of the public life of America was that thev had a newspaper press which published "what it darned well liked" about any public man. The American press had gradually brought down public life until 110 decent man would stand for public olliee. Cries of "Oh!" and "No!" Jlr. Laurensoi; said that tho man who said "No" did not know what he was talking about. He repeated that lying and slandering by the press of America had reduced public life there to its present level. The writer of high type, Jlr. Laurensim continued, would not object to signing his articles, but tho necessity of doing this would kill the cruel, slanderous writer. It would be found that every "newspaper whose editor was of the latter type would attack him for what he had said that night. He contended that abusive articles did not pay.eventually. They might gain a paper xcnio notoriety for a time, but in the end an abusive policy did not pay. In Christchurch there were two papers, one of which lie had never known to make a bitter personal attack on a public man, while the other nover referred to a political opponent without making such an attack. It was recognised in CliriStchurch that to get the support cf the "bitter, vilifying paper" was equivalent to being doomed. The other paper was a power in the community. Jlr. l.aurenson appealed to Government members to support the Bill, declaring that if they did not, their turn would come: some gutter paper wffluld arise which woiuld out-Herod Herod in attacking them. MR. FISHER'S VIEWS. NO OBJECTION TO THE BILL. The Hon. F. M. B. FIS'HER said that he would have no objection to seeing such a Bill become law. As to what Mr. Laurenson had said about Christchurch papers, did he think that the Christchurch "Press" was the only partisan paper in New Zealand? Jlr. lisher quoted a paragraph from an Opposition paper in Wellington to tho eltect that in the debate 011 the Imprest Supply Bill, Jlr. Fisher was simply bursting to get on his feet, and that when at last he did so lie addressed members with a flippancy which led to .the Speaker calling his attention to the rules of debate. The paragraph, Jlr. Fislicr stated, was absolutely inaccurate. The Chairman (Mr. Lang), and not the Speaker, was presiding when 110 spoke in tho Imprest debate, ryid it was I he member for Awarua who called his (Jlr. Fisher's) attention tu tho mles of debate. For his part he would like to see such a Bill taken. up by tho Government. It would bo well that all articles which were comments 011 public men should bo signed, and that tho public should know who (lie editorial "we was. Very often 110 was a man with long hair and knickerbockers who knew notliin" about things. jrr, Hindmarsh: Long ears and short hair. (Laughter.) Jlr. Fisher concluded with tho wish that the Bill or ohe of the same kind should get on the Statute-book, if not this time, then in the' near future. MR, VEITCH. NO EEASfIX TO COMPLAIN, Jlr, W. A. TEITCH (Wanganui) supported the Bill, but it did not provide for the i.'iise of men who spent an unreasonable amount of money 011 elections. The Hill made it necessary for tlieiu (0 supply information as to what they did 1 spend, but it (provided for 110 punishment. .110 had liimsolf 110 reason io complain that he had been unfairly treated by newspaper.-', nor did he linne-tly believo that .it was not. a great evil to Ivive a • newspaper _ against: one. A mail on ' n. butcher's cart , could do more i for a candidate than all the newspaper?. ■ If candidate; had the rank and file, of .like seopla.-.witi, them, thsx, yould h&va

■- lit lie lo feir from (lie newspapers. Tlx 0. fact 1 hat there were a limnbor n f pool il men ill the House was sufficient evidenci that the newspaper criticism did in fue 1- mill; much harm. But surely no dccen •- journalist could object seriously to sign il ing his inline lohis articles. It was no; ;; iiecc.-sary, huwever, to require that al 0 Jotters to newspapers should he signed >' The protection ot' the principle nf free tlnui of the pre--; had to he considered a: I: well as the protection of the individual e and Parliament must lake care that ii o seeking to cure one evil it did not oi-eati 0 11 nut her. lie thought that the Bill shuuli s provide also some method of dealing will ■- the unscrupulous newspapers who mis r represented candidate* in roiiorfim o speeches. lie thought it was hurdlv rich Hint the use of motor-cars should tie pro •, hibited at elections, but tho niolor-ca: u was 110110 the less a power for evil. 0 0 CURTAILMENT OF LIBERTY. " "SOSIETniNTr LIKE RUSSIA." Sfr. Ci. tf. ANDERSON (Alalaura) sail Hint. Hip Inst speaker bad referred ii . liioro sane terms io the press of New Zea land than most of the previous speakers There might: be examples of what Mr Laurenson called "gutter press," but tlia was by no means the character of ilv press generally. Again Mr. Laurenson liai referred to certain of the editors of Xev Zealand as "scoundrels." Ho knew tin editors of New Zealand, and he challeng ! «t Jlr. Laurenson to say which of then e wcro scoundrels. Sir. Laiirensoii had sail also that men were hired by the wealth; , classes to write articles. 'Were the article ir. the "New Zealand Times" or the "Lyt f leltou Times" .written by men hired b; tho wealthy classes. This Bill curtailei the freedom of the people—(hear, hear)and he was opposed to it. I , seemed to him that the . mori ' Socialistic a member of the 11 mi sc. wa J the more eager lie was to curtailthe right . of tho people. What had conduced 1110s \ to tho freedom of the people but the free ' doiu of the press? It had been said tha • Tiif. Dominion was unfair. But was th J "New Zealand Times" fair? What iva 1 the cause of the establishment of Th: Dominion? It was started because hi party could not get fair play in Welling ' ton before it was established. Ho though j it wns an immense curtailment of liberty t prevent any private individual from doiii \ almost anything to help to return his can \ didate. Tho proposal that a private in dividual, or even a privato corporation j should be called upon to supply a returi of all money spent was inquisitorial. I was something like Russia. If this wa what was to be expccted under Socialism c then God help the country. The fines pro . posed Were so heavy that very many o t tilo proprietors of small paper's couli • never afi'ord to pay them. 5 "LICENSE OF THE PRESS," REMARKS BY Ml?. ISITT. Mr. L. M. ISITT (Christchurch North ! said he thought that the only people wh< J had anything to fear' from, .the Bill regu , la'ting election expenditure were those wh< had much money to spend, lie contendei [ that in Canterbury the people who wen ' t.ho wealthy people were the supporters o : the-Government party. He declared tha ! what was called freedom of tho press wa really not freedom, hut license.' He be 1 lievcd that there was a gutter press ii New Zealand, lie had himself been op j posed by a journalistic opponent who wa utterly without scruple of any kind. Re ferring to AYellington, he declared tha "this paper The Dominion" was lowerini . the whole tone of New Zealand politics [ ami it was fair that the Minister fo. Justice, that Mr. Buchanan, that tin Postmaster-General, and the Minister fo: . Defence,.all of whom had a voico in thi . control ot tins pape:. should take the re sponsibility for the way in which it ha< been conducted. He quoted a few ex. tracts from The Dominion, and aske< whether they constituted fair journalism In all seriousness, he said lie did no think the Ministers mentioned wonli themselves say tho things that were sail , in Tire Dominion, but they must accep ' the responsibility'for what was snid there [ He rccognised that Parliament was interfering with a very delicate matter in [ dealing with the liberty of the press, but ' if the liberty of the. pi-ess was curtailed it would be because the sditors of certain ' papers were not exercising the journalistic care that their positjon required of them. [ If an editor had to sign every article . that, appeared a good many articles would . never see tlie light of day. i MR. W. H. D. BELL. A SERIOUS INFRACTION OF I x LIBERTY. > Mr. W. H. D. BELT, (AYellington Sub- ; urbs) said lie supported the Bill in so far . as it aimed at taking away the advan- : tages that wealth gave to a'rich man in : an election. But this the Bill would not [ do. All that the Bill asked for was a [ return of expenses. He would support , the second reading of the Bill, in the s hope that something might be devised to [ meet the case aimed at by the Bill. • With the second pai;t of the Bill he was 1 in entire disagreement. He admitted I that there wero misleading articles published in newspapers, awl if it were possibly to devise a Bill to prevent the publication of such articles he would support it. The taking away of the privilege of writing anonymous letters or anonymous articles would be. a serious infraction of the liberty of the press, which was a privilege akin to the secrecy of the ballot box. The signing of articles would not have any good result, for under any system the newspaper must take responsibility for what was printed. ' It had been said that papers were being f bought by rich men. Did members know 1 of a recent transaction in "New Zealand " Times" shares. They bad been bought 5 by a rich man, and not in order that the 1 paper should be used in the interests of ". the present Government. ' Mr. Payne: Is lie a member of tho Op--1 position? > Mr. Bell: No, except in so far as the " member who interrupted is a member of J the Opposition party. j THE PRESS AND PUBLIC OPINION. i r 1 "THE DOMINION" "EVERYWHERE.' 3 Mr. .T. H. BPADNEY (Auckland West] J said the Bill did not go fnr enough in rej spect to money spent in fighting elections, He would like to see a. more comprehensive measure introduced. But he was not in favour of any subtraction from tlif freedom of the press. The press was tlif reflection of tho public opinion of the day. With regard to The Dominion.h< had never come across it till he came ' to Wellington, but here he found it in 1 all the hotels, trains, and everywhere. H< " noticed that it was the first paper sought " after, and the inference was that it reJ presented public opinion. i THE TRUTH WITH CANDOUR. 3 A WORD TO MESSRS. ISITT AND I LAURENSON. 1 The Hon. A. L. HERDMAN (Ministei for Justice) said he had no hesitation ir paying that The Dominion was one ol the most valuable, the most influential tho best conducted newspapers in tin country. Tho fact: that it. told the trutl with such candour was .exceedingly in convenient: to the gentlemen now occupying the Opposition benches. It was re nlised throughout New Zealand that, i' thefo was one newspaper institution thai I bellied to put: tho Prime Minister to hi; 1 placo it was The Dominion nowsnaper t "I have listened to the statements" real I by tho honourable member for Christ 1 church North," said Mr Herdinan, "am r I say here that those statements arc true There is 110 Administration that has don< t more to reduce tho tone, to lower tin public life of New Zealand than the part} 1 that for 20 yeafs occupied the Treasur.i ' benches." It had been the fashion ii 3 recent riionths, lie continued, to abuse ii a vnlsar way the gentleman who oecu pied tho position of editor of that jour nnl. As a shareholder, and as a di rector of that papei he hat bten brought into plo.se . persona contact with that gentleman, and ther was uo man in New Zealand who stcoi 0 higher with his fellow journalists thai did Mr. Eiirle, the editor of The Down ion. The member for Ohristchiirch Noril il liad sull'ered as 11 result of eastigation h 1 hail rcceiveil from tiniu to time at th hands of the newspaper. Had Mr. I^it i not been whipped as ho deserved, he am y others would not bp found rising in thei b places making such speeches. One of th a. most amusing things that had ever hap n pened was tho member for .Lytlelton pes e ing as a. critic of good behaviour and fin ■. manner?. (Laughter.'l Why, nothing wn f under tbst' Kf.nUem.'n .* toni'i'-. R. a_Uiad attacked a iudso. of Suitccr

0 Court, and he had spoken contemptuously r of university reform. And as the days e ond years passed lii.s.nbuso became more •t abusive, lie (Mr. Ilerdinan) was perfectly it satistied from his personal IcnowUdgo 01 Mr. llindmarsh that ho was sincere in [t bringing the Bill down, but he believed lie ' was mistaken. At last election he Olr. '• Herdnian) had had experience of motorears. 1 lis opponent had the use of the : s motor-car belonging to the Right llonour- '■ able tho member for . Awarua. "And," 11 added" Mr. llerdman, "the motor-car took '! n great many of the people supporting mo J to the poll. (Laughter.) I haven't: iu/l | an opportunity of thanking liini yet, but I do sn now." Referring again lo the Bill, he thought it would not l>e in the interests of public criticism to compel editors or r contributors to newspapers lo subscribe . their names to articles. People were fighting for liberty < ; f the press 120 years ago, and men went to gaol for the principle. The agitation culminated in the freedom of the press being established. Now things had changed. The general d tendency was to shackle the press again, n and to go back sfl or 100 years. He de- . fended generally the idea that anoravmons . journalism was the most reasonable, and . the most effective for the public good, t 1 MR, G. W. RUSSELL ATTACKS "THE DOMINION." ELECTION ETHICS.

I Mr. G. W. RUSSBL (Avon) regretted that the debate 011 such an important • measure had taken such a turn as it . had in tho last half-hour. Nothing that v had been said justified the attack mado by the Minister for Justice 011 the mem- _ lx;r for Christchurch North and other [ t members on the Opposition side of tho House. "The honourable gentleman," ls said Mr. Russell, "tells without one blush ," nf shame that a number of his friends— J. (laughter)—rode in Sir Joseph Ward's motor-car to the poll for the purpose of j" voting for a gentleman who was pledged to turn out the Government of which Sir Joseph Ward was the head, and who t _, was himself one of the most bitter opponents Sir Joseph -Ward had in the legislature of th'.s country. If the honour- »" able gentleman regards persons who would do a thing of that kind as friends. I would recommend him that when next they 0 visit his house to count tho silver spoons after they have gone. People prepared 1- to act in that way. and boast about it afterwards, ore persons whom I would l»o sorry to call friends." 110 was entirely It in accord, he said, with tho I ,terms of the is Bill relating to election expenditure, and 1. in the proposal to have articles in a- newspapers signed. Ho attacked The jf Dominion for having, as he alleged, misrepresented him and other members of his side of the House. Mr. Russell said that The Domimov had accused the Ward Government of being worse than the NewYork faction ruled over by Boss Croker, and worse than President Kruger. Tho Minister for .Justice had said that stateinents like this had been amply justified. 10 The present Government had now been in office for three or four weeks, and had 10 had every opportunity in every. Departmont of examining files. He was confident that no document could be produced " which would justify the statements made II by The Dominion prior to last election. 18 Official files could, not be tampered with. L '" They were not in the possession of Min!l isters, but in that of responsible heads J ' of Departments, who wonld not permit l = any document to bo abstracted without minuting the fact, on the file from which 'I the document had been taken. He chalR longed the present Government to show s . that tho documents of this country justiu 1 fied any charges mado against the Ward 'ft and Mackenzio Governments by Tile u Dominion. The "Ward Government had a been defeated by a campaign of lying calumny and slander. d Tho Prime Minister: By whom?. :- -Mr. Russell: l By The Dominion, and d papers of that class. (Government laughi." ter.) The member for Avon went on to it dcclare that the statement that had lieen d made (by tho Minister for Justice) with d regard to The Dominion having changed it par-ties in this country was absolutely in5, correct. Mr. Laurenson: Hear! Hear! a Sir. Russell said that the number nf t. members returned with tho present Prime :1 Minister was 38. The Government had 11 got in, not by the will of the country, c but through the secession of members ro- . turned to" support its opponents in the a House. What had TnE Dominion done 1 to secure the return of Messrs. Vernon Reed, T. W. Rhodes, J. A. Millar, and B. H. Clark? Sir. BELL sriid that he -had been misrepresented. Ho had not said that tho first part of the Bill did not go far enough, but that he sympathised with the objects aimed ot in that part of the - Bill. He thought that even this portion r of the Bill required amending. !1

SIR JOSEPH WARD. HE HAD NEVER DEPENDED UPON THE PRESS. Sir J. WARD (Awarua) said that articles had been mentioned by the member for Christc-hurch North, and by the s Hou. Sir. Tlvrdman, which lie had placed in tho hands.of his solicitors, only to be advised that he had no action at law. This had driven him to the conclusion that these articles had been submitted to someone with a view to seeing how far it was safe to go. The memfcer for Awarua said that the present Government was in a. position to obtain full information regarding all. loans raised during the period of tho Liberal Administration. Ho publicly asked tho Minister for Finance to do "this, in tho interests c-f the public life of New Zealand. He knew that from beginning to end his hands were clean. All his transactions in connection with tho raising of loans had been carried out honourably.' Ho asked that the information referred to should fco obtained; as a matter ci common justice to himself and in the interests of public life. Throughout the whole time that he had been a Minister of tho Crown ho had never soon an act of corruption in this country. He challenged anyone with whom he had been associated to say that ho had ever done a wrong thing. Since ■ leaving office ho had not visited any Public Department, except tho Telegraph Department, which'he had visited for the purpose of sending telegrams. He had taken this course le.'t ho should be suspected of interfering in any way with the Departments with- which ho had been connected. Ha had never depended upon the press, as some public men in this country apparently liad done. He had never written an anonymous letter to the press, and had only dictated one article. He had received many attentions and kindnesses from the' editors of New Zealand, but he had never asked any of them to write articles 011 his behalf. Ho had been told that the Wellington paper which had been mentioned had been'started in the interests of land-owners in this country. Mr. Buchanan: I beg to give that an emphatic denial! Sir Joseph Ward caid that owners of Liberal papers in New Zealand had been told that they would liave to sell out or "stand Hie racket" of competition by a strong Opposition paner. At ono time, he continued, he had been able to eulogise that section of the jiress opposed to him for tho fairness of its reports. It was his experience that in recent years this comnliment was no- longer deserved. Ho would support some of the provisions of the Bill. *

SOME PLAIN FACTS. "THE DOMINION" AND THE PUBLIC. Mr. W. C. BUCHANAN (Wairarapa) said that lie had understood the member for Awarua to say that The Dominion newspaper had been brought into exisl- • ence bv capitalists, and that as one of 1 the papers brought into existence by that 1 class of the community, its aim was to " destroy opposing papers, taul.toiopil them • to sell out,'beQAnse. they could pot con- : tinue to face'.niXMUiil eftmfjetition. f Sir Joseph Watd: I did not say that. 1 Mr. Biiclvaqnu .sftid that, he .did not. ? wish to misrepresent the lion. gentleman, • but he had tflhen that to be his liienn--1 ine. " Sir Joseph Ward: No; 1 did not mako 1 that statement. B Mr. Buchanan said Hint he had had a 6 lililo to do in connection with the estabf lishmcnt of Tin: Dominion, and took pride 1 i n the fact. Those who had known him r imiarst would lie. most likely to accept his • statements as neimine. There had b'en no ■ urt'.iir c'oinp?lition oil the part nf Tin 7, ■ Dominion, and there hod been no espaeial ? suppoit of the naper in conducting its fair competition with the journals prevwiyly '■ '■"jt.niili.'hed in Wellington. If Tut Doma.uo£ TTA®. ajiytMaiK_ ssjJ,

tent that: had been slated by more than one speaker, then he .-übmitted that its position, not only in Wellington provincial district, but over a much wider area than that, showed that its numerous readers must bo biased ill the same way. It was notorious that month after month the appreciation of the public for The Dominion had been shown more and mom emphatically. Sir. Wilford: Hear, hear. Sir. Buchanan challenged any member to say that: ho had not stated the position fairly. The member for Lyltclton . had commenced his. speech with' a complaint that might be called a lament alter tho lion, gentleman's well-known stylo. Sir. Laurenson had complained' that the press of this country was passing into the hands of the ■moneyed classes. 111 this connection lie had ' mentioned the papers of the Wairarapa district. Onlv one of tlie Wairarapa papers was controlled by a wealthy man. The member for. Lytlelton was not" doing justice to his position or to . the House when lie rose and made statements which he ought to know were untrue. He was sorry io see him rise and accuse anyone of intemperate language, in viev.- of what members knew of (he honourable gentleman. VIEWS OF MR. WILFORD. HE HAS NO RESENTMENT. Mr. T. M. WILFORD (Hutt) playfully jibed at the Minister for-Justice for his defence of The Dominion. Ho did not believe, however, that the .signing of articles was necessary. Let him be shown the staff of a newspaper, and he would pick the man who wrote articles of misrepresentation and innuendos. He would pick tlieni in ten seconds, as lie would a jury. TIIO editor of a newspaper was a joke to him. It was idle' to expect a paper set up for political purposes to write articles to please the oilier side. As far as he was concerned he had 110 resentment against The Dominion, or any other paper, and 110 would not vote thatthey should sign their articles, because it would give such prominence to ono or two men that all the others would be out of work. ABOUT CANVASSING. IT SHOULD BE DONE AWAY WITH. Sir. A. HARRIS (Waitcinata) said 110 did not wish to refer to the last speaker, except to say that he would make an admirable acquisition to -a circus. . He would support tho Bill in its second reading, not becauso he was in complete agreement with it, but because ho believed in the principle underlying the Bill. The time had arrived, ill his opinion, when canvassing should ho done away with.. He referred especially to the paid canvassers sent round by the liquor party. Neither the liquol' parly nor the temperance party had to make a return of their expenses, and they did not hesitate to influence electors. Somo proposal to abolish this sort of thing would ba an excellent addition to the. Bill. Some of the clauses of the Bill were unworkable, impossible clauses, but ho complimented Sir. Hindmarsh on having tackled such a question. Ho did not caro whether tho clause relating to the signing of newspaper articles was passed or not, because 110 thought it was of very little importance. MR. T. W. RHODES. FREEDOM OF THE PRESS SHOULD BE CONSERVED. Sir. T. SY. RHODES (Thames) replied to certain statements about himself made by Sir. G. W. Russell. There was not much in the Bill that commended itself to liini. If- would bo desirable if all tho | evils of elections could he done away with. But he did not believe any good would come of the signing of newspaper articles or contributions. Everything should bo done to conserve the freedom of the press. MR. F. H. SMITH. N GOVERNMENT AND OPPOSITION j PAPERS. Sir. F. H. SMITH (Waitaki) said members oi' the Opposition had contrived to give The Dominion a. great'deal of good at the expanse of the country. Slembers should be mindful that they were not sent to Parliament, to advertise'TiiE Dominion. Speaking of the _ Bill generally, 110 did not agree with it. altogether. He did think that all letters written to tho paper should be signed. In reply to the state* inent that all the papers wero owned by. the Government, he stated thafc in tho North Island there wore M papers printed daily, mid GO supported the Liberal party; and ».n tho South Island there were 87 daily papers, of which 5G supported tho Liberals. MR. H. ATMORE. SUGGESTS A MUZZLE. Sir. H. ATSIORE (Nelson) discussed The Dominion, which ha said was. tho most ably conducted, hut the most unscrupulous, paper in the country.' It wns time, he thought, that, a muzzle was put on journalists of that kind. The measure was absolutely ntcessary, and he hoped the Bill would pass. ' N The second reading was agreed to on the voices. The House rosq at 11.55 p.m.