MOKAU.

Dominion, Volume 5, Issue 1271, 28 October 1911, Page 9

MOKAU.

» 1U « II: DEBATE IN THE HOUSE. b< ol Ul cc SEVERE CRITICISM. [> ti ul THE GOVERNMENT'S DEFENCE ™ CI ]>: The dobatn on tlic Mokau transactions s j and inquiry began in the House of lioprcscnlativos at 11.15 a.m. yesterday. t! Mr. W. 11. Hemes formally moved, tho « adoption of the report of the Native ['. Affairs Couiinittec, and proceeded to givo ' n a history of the Molr.au transactions. ]Io ~ ai said there were throe main questions to tl be considered—(l) Whether the Govern- u ment should havo bought the property or * not. (.2) Whether the Government should have issued tho Order-in-Council permit- j| tin;,- tho sale or not. (3) 'Whether theGovernment should havo allowed a Civil '' Servant (o take up the position (hat Mr. ° lioivler was practically forced into, of trustee for a company. Mr. Ngata: Don't you say tho Maoris ± did not yet enough money? j Mr. llerries: No. I don't say that. But s a lar-jo number of them still refuse to !: recognise the sale. There was uo doubt ' fiint the Government could havo pur- t chased the property at one time for .£15,0t)0, and that would "havo been the 1 best thing to do. Mr. W. T. Jennings said that anyone J who would read the reports and evidence | with an unbiased mind would agree that . tiie Government had done the best for all concerned. In regard to Mr. Jones's posi- ' tiou, the opinion ov three K.C.'s, iJr. Hell, Mr. Ilosking, mid Mr. SkeiTett, was that i if the report of the Stout-talnier Coinuis- j ;ion had been subjected to legal scrutiny, i Mr. Jones would not li.it o lost his pro- 1 porty. If that were so, Mr. Jones was en- ' titled to some consideration from some- ] ludy, (hough he (Mr. Jennings) did not i «■:• how the ftovernmcut could do any- < thing in the matter. 1 "Extraordinary and Improper." j Mr. W. F. Massey remarked that the i Committee's report was really a verdict '■ U'.v the p!a".ilifi'—hiim'.-.lf. lt'stated that , h? w.'i'; right except en three minor point?, in regard lo tho first of these, it was ad- j n.iltrd that it would not have been pos- . fit.lt for the land lo lie sold to a speculator without tho is-.uo of tho Order-in- . ('aii!".:i, anil he therefore -till contended , ! that _ the _ise;m of that Onkr-in-Cotn:eil . avoided the operation of the limitation clauses of tho Native Land Act, 1909. As : to Mr. Howler's nosiiion, he had, as president: of the Mitnri Land Board, a duty ! to the Government and the country, and he bed another duty to the yreoulators . who now owned tha land, if the* lan,! was not subdivided within liio prescribed Unco I year.-., the. time m:e;ht be cVcmhed bv the board, and Mr. Bowler, at trustee for the company, would have to ask Mr. Bowler, m president o: the bocnl, to consent to the e.ttsßsion. It was cue of the most extraordinary and improper transactions tint bad ever taken place in re;;ni'd to the aumir.istrriion of tlris country. Ar.nfVi-r miner point in which the Committee said i\e had made a uiie-talo was his statement thst ths puiehasors of the block had required a monopoly of the cosl-boar-ing areas of Taranaki. Ho was quite willing to ndnit that in that respect he was net ttrietiy areuiate. The. Committee hid el.-o reported that the statement to Ihi- effect that the mooting of Native own«i". consenting to the sale was not properly rtpweirbvive had been disproved, lie, h.iv,.:.-er, -till maintained that tho meeting w?i not prope-.rly representative. There were 153 owners, and only 21 were pr.-.ee:it or represented, and the biggest owner rrceired no netic.e of the meeting and knsw nothing about it. BcKrre con-vf-nig the fir.-; meeting of the Native, owi:."i'-, Mr. Bowler, who, it would appear, thought the proposed alienation would not lie legal, old'ninci:! the iiistructi/.ms ol the Native Minister to do so. Tho Nntivej were not veyres<;ntcd by counrel at tlic mo-ling which decided on the pnrehr.se, though ,-t both th» meetings Mr. JlDrr:v-m Lewis ivi.< reprinted bv Mr. I)a'::i;ll. Mr. Massey vent on to'stress the facts that the Maori Land Board confirmed (ho rats before the Order-in-Coun-cil v.-.-.s rjazf.ltrd, and while the president . had only heard that it had been signed . from I,lr. Dalr.iell—the person, said' Mr. ; Mne'.'oy, who apparently ran tho wholei (TanMction. Mr. lJerrman Lewis had • actually sold to tho next speculator be- , fore ihe Order-in-Council had been issued, ! nnd the next speculator had sold at a ; profit ta th«s company before tho puri chase by Mr. ller'rman Lewis was eoni- . ple.fed. He believed tho Nalives had not . obtained a fair nrice for the freehold, and : tim L'itronevm settlors would bo called , upon to pay too much—namely, more than icey would if the Government had bought (he land. The Natives had been perfectly i.Hling to tell to the Government, and any difficulty about the leaseholders' interests wa* met by Koelion S'o of tho Native Le.nd Act, which provided means for asscising their claims titer tho pur- ; chasa of the Native freehold by the GoveTHinent. The transact ion had no redeeming feature. Jf the Government had been worthy of its position and had done its duty to ( ; -o country and tho Kativo race it would have' purchased tho land. 1 Mr. T. Mackenzie: You ought lo go up to the district and say (hat! Mas=e,v. I am going up in a day 1 or two. I ask tho lion, gentleman to ' meet mo on tho platform in Ta.anaki and discuss it with inc. (Uproar ' among Ministerialists.) Mr. T. Mackenzie: "Will you discuss it 1 with tho Native Minister? Mr. Marsev: 1 am quite willing to discuss it with anybody. , Tho Only Course. The lion. A. 'J'. Ngata said the prin- [ eipai contentions of Mr. Massey had been: [ li) That in jHU'iiiilting the siiiu lo Mr. s Jierrman Lewis, the Government did , something detrimental lo the public in- , Iciest, aiid that the proper thing would ; havo been tor the Government to pur- ; uha-a the block, and dispo;.; of it to ■ scitlcrs on the optional svstem of the ■ Laud Act, 11)03. (2) That the trnnsaci (ion was not in the interests of the Nai five owners. The jitioris' interests had : not suit'ereri. It was shown that they I had suilicieut oilier Innde-, and that (he price they received was adequate under i tiie circumstance's then existing. The i only cour.iu under the circumstances was to combine in oe.e perr-on—that ol Herr- ; man Lewis or anyone in his place—the ■ freehold and the leasidiold interests in the I block. That was what had be-m done, • and there, was no other way of getting | a clear title to the land. Had tho Gov- - erhmenf acquired (he land, there would ,' havo been Mr. Jones's claims to meet, 1 and the House would have compelled 1 the Government to give him more than 1 he was legally entitled to. Tho Govern- ' menl had taken a lire that must load - lo the land being cut up and settled [ in limited areas. That was in the public ' interest, and that was why the Oriler-in--1 Council had been 1 issued. Mr. Massey •, must be sorry he had not como out of it 1 better. ! .Mr. Massey: I have proved every point " up to the hilt. Mr. Ngata: Sensible people will, say " that the lion, gentleman has been foolj hardy in regard to this Mokau trans- , action. Speech by tho Prime Minister, j Sir Joseph Ward said that ho could ' not understand how the committee- could I style Mr. .Massey"s statement, that the , Government had 'issued an Ordcr-in-Coun-f cil in order to avoid (he limitation clauses of the Native Land Act, "a minor . matter." The same remark applied to Mr. Massey's allegation that the meetin"'of as-imftled owners was not properly l representative. -Mr. -Massey's statement that the Mokau Company had been given - a practical monopoly of (ho coal-bearing ' areas iu tho Taranaki district was also t not a minor matter. These thrco slate- > ments the committee had unanimously x declared to be disproved, and among the t members of the committee present when this decision was come to were Messrs. ( llerries, Khodos, and Dive, who were s friends, supporters, and defenders of the Leader of the Opposition. 11 would have - Iron a suicidal course (o acquire the i lands a.s the Leader of the Opposition 3 declared should have been done. - Mr. llerries: Wo had no evidence of t that before Hie committee. 3 The Prime Minister stated that tha 1 Government' would liavo had ' to pay . JHi7,23i) for loascs and other interests, and .£25,000 aa a contribution to the

few Plymouth Harbonr Board, a total uin of £'Jl,iW. Anyone, could undcr-l-and the easiness of tho Taranahi lembers to see tlio country purchass his estate when it was' known that it' his were dono tho New Plymouth Harour Board would collect tho modest sum f JSS.JOO. Tho board was entitled adcr tho law to one-quarter of tho proeeds of cash sales of Crown lands in hat district. If tho estate had been ;asod tho hoard would have been cnittod to iive per cent, of tho rentals for 11 time. Tho Leader of tho Opposition mst havo been aware of this, but for umo reason or oilier it had been kept nlirelv in the background. Po long as rivato individuals respected the law, it ■as useless for the Leader of tho Oppoition or anybody else, to attempt to urn their actions into charges against lie Government. In practice it was 11011ensica! and would not bear examination or a moment. The Lender of the Oppoition had said that the Government had >owcr nnilcr the Native Land Act, 11)09, to .(•quire the leasehold interests. As a fact, here was no power under that Act to ■liable tho Government to pay off mort;ngcs. It could not, therefore, have dealt nth the sub-lessees' interests. Mr. Masscy: Tho highest legal authortv in the colony says you can. 'Tho Prima- Minister said he preferred o accept the opinion of the Law Officers if the Crown. Claim on tho Assurance Fund. Spcakhi" of Mr. Skerrett's advice to ho Natives that they had a claim for 1:80,000 against tho Laud Transfer Asiurance Fund, the primo Minister reaarked that although attempts had been nado by Hie Opposition to discredit this idvice, the claim had existed at one tune inder certain circumstances. Mr. Massoy: What docs that make the and worth ? The Prime Minister said that what he ,vas talking atKiut was the nubile intor;st. It was their duty to prevent a claia Kins rflttde against liiis country tor iSl),e*o. , ... Mr. Massey. If the claim was good then it is goad uov.\ Tho Prime Minister insisted that it ivaa "not the business" of the Government o enter a transaction which would have nvolved the waste cf thousands of rounds, as thousands had been already ivasted and diisipatcd in litigation. With the difficulties cf Mr. Joshua Jones ;ie had every sympathy. What he had lens had fcen tlons very largely with tho object of seeing that an old pioneer should be allowed, if possible, to retain in area of this land and the coal rights, fhe Leader of the Opposition had selected tho name of Mr. M'Nab in connection with this matter and had ignored the names of three men who bought from tlrrnn.-in lx>wis and who supported hini Mr. MasEcy) in politics. Anything more unfair had"i;evcr been seen in this conntrv. Having read an extract from J'iis Dominion in which tho Mokau hirjiiiry was spoken of as likely to lead Co interesting disclosures, tho Prime Minister described tho paper as one that did not-mind in the least reflecting on its -wn larger shareholders and looked for ruth, oven though attaching to its own people, if it thought that it could "get' in unv wav at the Government. Thousands of pounds, tho Prime Minister declared,' had Iron wasted Co enable the lion, gentleman to pursue a worthless inrj'.iiry which had done no harm to those whom ho had attempted to assail. Mr. Homes: It won't cost .CIOO. The Prime Minister defended the appointment of .Mr. Howler n.s a trustee. .Mr. Mosm.'.v: The Natives had nothing to do with it. Tho Prime -Minister: Why should not Mr. Batrlor have acted—a man against whose character and integrity there was not a word? He concluded by stating that if the Government had not acted in this manner there would havo been litigation in this country and out oi it for'years. Ths Way to Treat a Pioneer. Mr. H. J. H. Okcy (Taranaki) stated that onlv 1200 acres of this laud was ir the New" Plymouth barlxmr rating dis trict. This did away with £21,000 oi o"!ra payment that tho Primo Ministel said t'ho Government would havo had t< make. Sir Joseph Ward: That statement i: absolutely incorrect. M r. Ok'ey stud he had got ths statenlc-n from Mr.'Jones tliat ho had paid 255. ; year on twelve hundred acres for twent; yearn. After referring Co tho work of Ml Jones as a pioneer Mr. Okcy said that h sorn-.sd to havo been "had" in every quar tcr. He had been displaced by a ma: who had not paid down a shilling for th land. Was this how old settlers shoub be ferTcd ? Mr. Poole: Who did that? Mr. Okoy said that (lie House had At nied an inquiry to Jones. He was satis fied that if a full inquiry were grantei jirsfieo would be done to Jones. liven a thin Into singe something should be done It had been raid that too much had beei paid for the land, but no one could sa; what it was worth. There were million of tons of coal upon the estate. Report in the hands of tho Government indicated that there were outcrops of coal al over the property. Sir Joseph Ward said that the Mokai estate was in the Taranaki Land Bis trirt, and was not in a special ratinf area. If tho Government "l.nd acquirer and sold it they would havo had to ham over one-fourth of the proceeds to th< New Plymouth Harbour Hoard. Mr. Massey: Parliament would scoi alter that. Sir Joseph Ward: That would be re 'respective, legislation of tlio very vrorsi kiwi. Mr. Okey said tliat if his infnrm.atioi v.-m iiirorroit llie New Plymouth Boan had been "done out" of rates for tho las: twenty years. Mr. P.. A. Wright said that Mr. .Tone hadl been the victim of anything but fai: play. Sir Joseph Ward: That statement i: contrarv to fact. Mr. Wright: Oh, yes. everything is con i?sry to fact tliat reflects in any way npoi your actions! Advertising "The Dominion." "It is an extraordinary thing," Mr Wright continued, "that Tun JJomixio: i.s always appearing on tlio floor of (hi House. There is no paper in Nrw Zm land that is so gratuitously advertised a Tin: i)o!,H.\"io>:." The Prime Minister: You are so clojcl; .v.wiat«d with it I Mr. Wright: "I am not associated with i at all. 1 uon't c.-.r-e a straw what Tin; B« .vrsioh" or any other paper says!" H'cain tinned that lis had always heard fvon the Prime Minister that 'Tint Bo.uisio: made grossly unfair attacks upon him am upon the (iovcrnr.enl. Thry had I.h-ci told tliat Tnr: Dominion manntaetiirei and concocted its reports. Now tho Prim Minister was attacking Tin; Dominion f« attacking tho members of the Opposition Sir Jtwpli Ward: 1 did not say that, Mr. Wright repeated that the right lion gentleman had said that Tin: Bojiixih! had actually attacked members of thi Opposition in connection with this Mo kau Company. Tho Premier:! did not say that. Mr. Wright said the shareholders o this company embraced people on botl sides in politics. They had been toh that afternoon that Tin; Dominion Ikh been so mean and contemptible as to altack its own friends. A paper that dir this was a fair paper. He did not suppose any other paper would do it, and that was why Tun Dominion- came in for so much caslication. No one doubted, air. Wright continued, that Mr. Skerrett was a great lawyer, but ho was also one of the greatest bluffers in the legal world, and this explained his reference to a claim against the Assurance Fund, If the fund hail ever been open to attack, it was open to attack now, but as a fact it had never been open to attack. If was unlikely that any other Jinn than Findlay and Dalziell could have induced the Government to issue an Order-in-Council as it did. Ho believed that tho firm had succeeded by virtue of its influence with tho Government. The Government had acted wrongly in tin's matter, and had played into tho hands of a body of speculators. The men who worked tho land would eventually havo no pay tho profits that had been made. An Offer of Shares, Mr. Fowlds offered to put a largoblock of shares in the Mokau Company at the disposal of the Leader of tho Opposition at tho original cost, plus five per cent, from tho day tho money was put in, and ho would split the commission with the Leader of tho Opposition! Mr. Massoy: Are they your own shares! Mr. Fowlds said they were not, but he was authorised to offer them. Mr. Bive proposed an amendment to tho effect that tlio House considered it undesirable that ths Civil Servant should occupy such a position as Mr. Bowlor had occupied in. nij trusteeship, on behalf

of Oio purchasers of the Mokau lands.. Mr. Dive stated that, as a Taranaki member, he was glad that the question had been .settled, and that there was a prospect of tho land being settled, lint ho was convinced that tho Natives had not hud fair play. Mr. Massey, replying: to Mr. Fowlds's offer, said that this was tho first occasion, on which he had heard an attempt made, to use tho House as a commission agent's office. The position in regard to the Harbour Hoard contribution was that rather than pay .£25,000 to the New Plymouth Harbour Hoard tho ]?rimo Minister had allowed .£00,00!) (o go to private individuals. The only cost lo tho country of this inquiry was the travelling expensed of tho various witnesses and tho cost of printing. He doubted whether tlio whole cost had exceeded .£IOO. Sir Joseph Ward staled that Mi'. Skcrrctt, on Ijehalf of tho Native owners of the Mokau block, had actually tiled a, claim against tho Government tor .£BO,OOO on account of, improper registration of leases at New Plymouth. Mr. H. J. Grcenslado (Waikato) deprecated what he styled an attempt to asporso tho character of a Civil Servant who was not given an opportunity to dofond himself. The amendment was negatived on a division by J2 voles to 19. Te Kaiifjihiroa. defended tho Government's actions.

Why the Government Acted. Sir Jas. Carroll declared that tho Auckland "Herald" had accused tho Government a couplo of years ago of blocking; settlement in the North Island, and had instanced the position of tho Mokau Block, as an example of what occurred under the "tailioa" policy. At the samo time, the "Herald" had urged the Government to stand aside and Jet tho settlement of the block; proceed. For thirty years the Mokau lands had been in tho hands of Europeans, the Natives having nothing to do with them at all. For two years ho had done his licst to promoto a solution of the problem of settling tho block. It was not on the representation of Lewis and Co., but on the representations of Mr. Skerrett, representing tha Msoris, that the Government had taken action. Ho took the responsibility, so fur as tho Natives wore concerned, of confuting to the issue of the Order-in-Ccun-cil. _ The Native Minister defended tho appointment of Mr. Bowler as n trustee. Ho tc-sk the responsibility of that officer's position. All that had been dono had been for the public bcuefit, and for the general good, lie denied that tho interests of tho Natives had been sacrificed. All the evidence went to show that the land was not worth moro than 10s. an acre.

Mr. Massoy: What did tho company pay for it?

Sir J as. Carroll: "It docs not matte' what the "company paid for it. ]t docs not matter if thev paid a million for it." As to Mr. Boll's allegation that tlio Natives had boon left without legal advice, there had boon a strong reluct nnco on Mr. Bell's part to go to To Kuiti at all. 110 had made an ill-considemd charge on utterly insuflieiont grounds. The Loader of tho Opposition had been successful in many other ventures, but lie was an absolute failuro iu this. Reason for Regret. Mr. W. 11. Herries, in replying, contended thai this report showed that there wis very lili'.o party iu tho' Nativo Affairs Committee. The best proof of this was that neither tide in politics was tatirfkd. Ministerial organs had eomp!«in<xl in leading articles that tho Gov. ernmont had not been sufficiently whitewashed, and Opposition papers had complained that the Government Coinmitloo had not painted the Government black enough. The leader of tho Opposition would have been correct if ho had stated that tho Order-iu-Couneil extended tho limitation provisions of tho Native Laud Set. Mr. Mousey had been in error as to tho meeting of owners not being properly representative, but his statement that the company had secured a monopoly of tho coal-bearing areas in Taranala would have boon correct if ho had mid "coal-bearing area having a commercial value, at present." Mr. Ilerrics said lie believed thai, all things considered, the Natives had got a fair price for their land. Ono of the main issues at slaky vri\i whether tho Government should have bought the Mohau lands.' In his opinion there was a time when it would havo paid the Dominion to havo bought these properties. Tho Government had declared themselves afraid of litigation, but the company hau 'bought, and nothing bad happened. Tho vital issue at etuko was whether tho Orucr-iu-Council should havo boon issued. lie was quite Guro that if Ministers Spoho their real minds they would admit (hat they regretted that tho Ordcr-iu-Council had been issued. Mr. ifassey: They will regret it before the elections are over. Mr. Herries said it had unquestionably been a prodigious asset, and had enabled speculators to make large sums of money. Hcrrman liewis, for doing nothing, had got ,£35,000, and Mason Chambers, also for doing nothing, had mado mooo. The Prime Minister: They did not moke it out of the Government. Mr. Herries: "But, if tho Order-in-Council had not boon issued, they could, not havo made it!" The whole ell'cct of tho Ordor-in-Coimeil had been to enrich a few fortunate individuals and imposo an increased burden on settlers. Ho was quifo certain that the acceptance by Mr. Bowler of the position of trustee was improper, and should, never be allowed to occur again. Tho report was on tho voiooa.