OUTSPOKEN CLERGY.

Dominion, Volume 4, Issue 1030, 20 January 1911, Page 5

OUTSPOKEN CLERGY.

ON BURNING TOPIC. NO SECT TEACHING IN SCHOOL^ BIBLE OR NOTHING, r~~ ■ • * Religious instruction in schools led. to ;j - keen and somewhat ■ outspokent discussion bv iho Primitive Methodist' Conference at its washing-up session yes-' terday morning. It was introduced by i tho following motion drafted by the Bev. I J, Dawson and submitted to the confer-; enco on his beh.alf by tho Bev. G,-Ivnowles-Smith' That this Conference of the Prim-. itive Methodist Church, whilst en- 1 tirely in accord with the introduction of some such primer as tho Irish Header into tho State schools and the, legalising of the so-called Nelson sys- 1 tem of ministerial visitation thereto, ■ yet emphatically declares its full and uncompromising opposition to any at- ; tempt to introduce denominational' right of entry. , . ,

May Fight for. Secularism. "Notwithstanding all the platitudes of | our esteemed visitor" (Archdeacon Har- ■ .per), said Mr. Smith, "the acceptance of j the New South Wales system means tha' introduction of denominational teaching.: If that is going to be brought forward' then I am going to fight for absolute. so-1 culansm in the State day schools. ■Ii affirm .the right of ministers to enter thoschools for purposes of purely, religious; and undenominational instruction, but ifl the other (denominational teaching) iaJ to be forced, I am going to be a secular- ! . ist straight out." The Rev. S. Henderson thought that it might be advisable to set up a committee before coming to a final determination on tho matter. The committea might draw up some plan, submit it to the Synods and ultimately report to tha next conference. Tho" speaker moved an amendment accordingly. it l !* o , Kev " G ' (president) said! that he would second the amendment. Proceeding, he remarked that the Nelson system now in vogue throughout this country was very unsatisfactory. "I do r.ot think," said Mr. Mann, "that it should bo within the power of a school committee to refuse a minister the right of entry to teach according to the Nelson'system—that is, outside of ordinary school hours. Another drawback to tho Nelson system is that we do ' not reach half the children in our State schools. It is only possible/of course, for ministers to rea'cli schools that are m the immediate neighbourhood of,tlieir residences. In my owu district there are fourteen schools which never, enjoy the visits of ministers. The Nelson system is open to exception on twomain grounds. (1) That we have not tha right to give the lesson independent of the school committee; (2) that we. cannot • give the lesson in the outlying districts for tho want of greater privileges of' entry. Often, Mr. Mann continued, ministers visiting country districts could give a leason if privileges of entry were enjoyed.. He was not at this juncture prepared to' say that he favoured the New South I Wales system. If a committee were set. up to go into the whole question and report to tho next conference it might afford some sort of guide. The. confer- ■' ence would then be able to arrive at a decision that would provide a proper fighting ground. _ Tho speaker was heartily sick of shifting from one position to another. It was high time that they toot a definite stand as a Church, but it was' scarcely in the power of this assembly, to do so straight away. ' - I'

Could Not Support the Anglicans, The Rev. E. Drake suggested that the question might be referred to. the Publioi Questions Committee.. The Primate of' •the' Anglican Church in New Zealand had! i stated that the New South Wales system 1 : ■was 'the only one which that Churchy would accept. To the speaker this seemed! Ito be going too far. An objectionable fea-. ture of the New South Wales system was! that a minister, going'to a.school wlierei a majority of the children were of hisi denomination, had the whole of the children placed in his charge for the being. On occasion this enabled ministers to inculcate the dogmas of their own donomination. This was, of course, against the law, but it was done at times. The Rev. J. Cocker supported the proposal to refer the matter, to the Public Questions Committee.' Upon one'thing, he said, they were all agreed. They would all like tl\e children to read the Bible. Some of them who had come from l England were rather frightened as to j what might happen if religious teaching / were introduced. But here, where there/ was no State church, they need not let 1 that bogey prevent them getting the Bibla into the schools. . ■' Presbyterian Resolutfon Too Weak. The Rev. ,G. Ivnowles-Smith said j ha would have withdrawn the original resolution had the amendment stated definitely that, at no prico or cost, would the conference agreo to sectarian teaching - in the State schools. But on this point. lie stood very definitely. There was no meaning behind the Presbyterian resolution. It was tho most milk-and-water business ever done. Its framers had not dared to face the plain question as to whether they should unreservedly opposa tho introduction of sectarianism. . _ _ Tho president: We are all iu tnat position (of opposition). . . , ... "No, you are not," said Mr. Smith. "You are prepared to send this matter back to a committee without making a, definite pronouncement. The : Anglicans have said that they will have either denominational right of entry or denominational day schools. That is the Anglican , position, and they are sincere. lam going to fight that position all along tho line. I submit that we should make a defiuita pronouncement .at this conference in th® matter of sectarianism." The Rev. li. liaine asked whether Mr. Smith's remarks about the Presbyteriauß would be reported in the press. Tho Rev. G. Kuowles-Smith: "If so, it will bo reported as a personal utterance. , and I am quite content to stand by what . I said." / Tho Rev. J. Dawson: The press has shown a very proper discretion. The president said that they wero all against sectarianism. If the mover of - the amendment would preface it by a preamble stating the fact, ho (the president) would agreo to it. The Rev. S. Henderson understood that they were all dead against sectarianism, and he would willingly adopt the. president's suggestion. '

Secularism ■ Defended, The Rev. C. E. Ward declared himself opposed to the introduction of the Bible in schools. He objected to it as the thiu edge of tho -wedge that would introduce denoniinationalisin. They had an excellent public school system, which was not Godless, but included 111 its curriculum high moral teaching. If in SundaySchools and churches they were as faithful and as truo as public school teachers; it would be well. Interference misht verylikely end in wrecking the present system and introducing dcnomiuationalism, which would be a calamity. ■ After some further discussion the ccnferenco adopted, on the voices, the amended resolution of the Rev. S. Henderson. It runs as follows:— "That this conference, while declaring its emphatic and uncompromising opposition to any form of sectarian teaching in tlio State schools, refers, the whole question of Bible instruction therein to the Public Questions Committee, to draw up areport to bo submitted to the ensuing district synods for their consideration, and that a report on the matter be submitted to the next conference."