THE HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 4, Issue 966, 5 November 1910, Page 7

THE HOUSE.

NELSON AND WESTLAND RESERVES. When- the House of Representatives met at 2.30 'o'clock yesterday afternoon/ ' _ . Notice was given of the intention to introduce the Nelson and Wcstland .Reserves" Bill. JUDICATURE AMENDMENT BILL. The second reading of . the Judicature Amendment Bill was agreed to. COUNTIES ACT BILL. 111 .moving the. second reading of the Counties Act Amendment Bill. The Hon. R. M'KENZIE said its object was to bring the Counties Act into operation in. certain, counties where it had.been suspended or where it. had never been in force. The necessity for special treatment of these districts had coasctl owing to the largo increase : of population. It was considered that ',here were far too many road boards in

somo of these districts. He did not see that it was neccssary to wait until a Local Government. Bill was passed, which might bo next session. Mr. MASSEY thought that the peoplo concerned should have liotico of the Bill. He was of opinio J that it should not come into operation until January 1, 1912. As regards the Local Government Bill, either the Government wero serious or th<;y wero not. In the course of his reply, the Minister donied that tho Dill had been brought down by way of a surprise. , Tho second reading Was then- passed.

EDUCATION RESERVES. Upon tho second reading of the Education Reserves Amendment Bill, Tho PRIME MINISTER stated it was proposed under tho Bill to place the various education reserves under tho control of tho District Laud Boards. In this way tho various boards of school commissioners would be done away with. Tho control of tho reserves ■would under the new system be_ greatly simplified. . It was proposed to limit .the cost of administration to 5 per cent. Mr. HOGG (Masterton) argued that by adopting the new system a big mistake was about to be made. In the Wellington district there had been no trouble under the existing system. Mr. STALLWORTHY (Kaipara) welcomed tho new proposal. Ho instanced raveral cases of alleged want of management on the part of the boards of school commissioners. Not long ago a settler-informed him'that no had applied to the School Commissioners for the Auckland district for tho lease of a As he was tho successful applicant he went to ascertain exactly, where tho land was situated. He found that it consisted of 50 acres, and was in a very desirable locality in a sawmilling township. And the rent was to be only £2 per annum for 21 years! He was certain that undor the proposed system instances of the kind would not occur."" ■ '-. Sir. JENNINGS (Taumarunui), m the course of .his remarks, said that ho favoured' tho election of all the members of land boards. The PRIME MINISTER, in reply, said that there had been a general outcry for the new system. The Bill was then read a second time.

LOCAL BODIES' LOANS. . In moving tho second reading of the Local Bodies' Loans Amendment Bill, The PRIME MINISTER said that the Bill was to give effect to a promise to afford relief to several local bodies which had completed proceedings for the grant'.of an advance, but had not applied for tho moneys prior to the passing of the State Guaranteed Advances Act, which, altered t]ie conditions of the grant of advances. ■- Mr. MASSEY considered that' tho proposal was one which should be carried out in justice to tho local bodies concerned. . * . , , ' The PREMIER said that m the eight months during which tlio State Advances Bill had been in operation loans aggregating £1,239,601 had been authorised at 3£ per cent. ■ Mr. Allen: What about the sinking fund?

Sir Joseph': 1 wish that you would get over the habit of trying to.put the worst side. .

Continuing,:. Sir Josepli said that in addition the local bodies had to pay the sinking fund, which , repaid the advance within thfe period of the currency of the loan. .- - Mr. Massey : What is. the" amount of tlra sinking 'fund/per'.cont. ? - Sir Joseph:. £1.,75. 6d.. Mr. Massey:, That: makes £4 17s. 6d. ill all? ■ ..'■-"l!/'!".'." .-'.-I!/ • Sir Joseph rejoined that'iti.was." a fact that six months ago some local bodies could not get money at 6 per cent, for interest alone. ■ It was perfect nonsense to.say that the old system was better than the new system; Under the old system only £180,000 would be advanced in the samo time. Altogether, .over £12,000,000 had now been advanced to local bodios, settlers, -and workers. Over 27,000 settlers and over 4000 workers had received advances at one time, or another from the State. ■

Massey: The latter is under my system. ■ Sir Joseph: Prior to the dato when you raised tlie question it was stated in the Budgot thai the Government proposed to create an advances to workers' system. . . The Bill was read a second time.

JUSTICES OF THE PEACE BILL. ' There was no discussion during the passage of 'the Justices of the Peace Bill through Committee. PUBLIC REVENUES BILL. POST-AUDIT SYSTEM. IMPORTANT DIVISIONS. When tho. Public Revenues Bill was under consideration, Mr, WRIGHT (Wellington South) asked if it was quite clear tbat in auditing, the Auditor-General and. his staff inquired into the goods supplied or tho items of evory Bill, or did they just sco that tho voucher was there. The PRIME MINISTER remarked on the trouble most people had in getting a voucher through tho. Audit,' because of tho close scrutiny.' Every item was examined. No mistake could bo .made without its going through several hands. The only w'ay trouble would arise under - the system would bo if a-pack of scoundrels were at the head and subordinate, officers would not report improprieties that took place. This was not likely to occur in New Zealand. He had never heard of. a wrong payment going through. The system of checking in this country was as strong as it could possibly bo ,

Efleot of the Now System. Replying to other members, The PRIME MINISTER, said that what happened under - the pre-audit system was that 14 .days were given for tho closing of the books. This was to miablo'all payments to come to account. Under the post-audit system the samo thing would occur so far as chequo payments were concerned. It was true that the details of the accounts that wero not in within the 14 days could not be audited at the time the financial year ended. These accounts would not, however, escape audit. Mr. Jas. ALLEN (Bruce) referred to tho position as regards the auditing of tho accounts of tho public bodies. Tho PRIME MINISTER replied that he would bo glad to see that tho auditing' of local bodies' accounts was undertaken in such a way as to make continued embezzlement impossible. Mr. ALLEN declared that it was likely that' tho fiuaiicial results for tho 3'car would be delayed longer under tho post-audit- system than under tho preaudit system/ Sir Joseph: That will not bo so. Mr. MASSEY suggested the deletion of Clause 46, under which certain payments, including the payment of the extra £40 to members some years ago, wero made possible in 1900. Tho payment in question, remarked Mr. Masscy, was a most improper one. Ho had even heard in tho lobbies this session that members were not sufficiently paid. For himself ho did not bcliovo that members were overpaid. There was now twice as much work for members as was the caso when ho first entered Parliament-. Ho would move to kill the clause!

The PRIME MINISTER said that tho clause was introduced oil tho advice of the Grown Law officers. If this clause were not retained it might be necessary to have 20 or 30 special sections in the Appropriation Act.

The amendment was rejected by 27 votes t0,20. Transfer of Votes. Clause 47 provides that moneys available in respect'of any voto in tho Appropriation Act may bo transferred in aid of any other vote in tho same class. Mr. MASSEY proposed an amendment to tho effect that tho Govcrnor-in-Council might direct that any surplus of any vote may bo applied in aid of any other vote in the samo class provided that tho total voto is not exceeded. - Tho PRIME MINISTER said that tho clause was necessary. It had been put in force only on a few occasions. Mr. Massey: I challenge you to show mo a parallel clause in tho legislation of any other country in. the Empire. : The amendment was lost by 29 to 19. Attention was drawn by several members to Clause 132, which provides that tho Government may purchase silver and bronze coin from tho Royal Mint or from any branch in Australia to an amount not exceeding £100,000 in any one financial year. . Mr. HERRIES (Tauranga) asked if it were intended to buy any of. tho '.'kangaroo" coinage. Sir Joseph: Not at present. Mr. Luke: Will the new Australian coinage bo legal tender 'in New Zealand?. Sir Joseph: I am not- going to deal with such an important question as that of coinage on a Bill of this kind. A new clauso, providing for the reference of disputes between tho Audit Office and tho Treasury, or any other Department, to tho Governor-in-Coun-oil, or tho Attorney-General, was inserted at tho instanco of the Primo Minister. The Bill was then reported. At this stage the House adjourned untir7.3o o'clock on Monday evening.