THE HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 4, Issue 952, 20 October 1910, Page 6

THE HOUSE.

STATE HYDRO-ELECTRIC ~ SCHEME. PROSPECTS OF THE HUTT PROPOSAL. ■ :. WAS IT A THREAT? In moving the third reading of the Aid to Water Power ■ Works Bill, The .PRIME MINISTER said the cost of- the .various works—both capital aiid operating—had been, previously , compared in detail with; practically every large undertaking in. Norway,' Switzerland, and Sweden. -The lines in other countries, ranged from 126 miles to 150 miles; It seemed to him on Mr. Hay's 1906 figures that, despite criticism, electrical energy could be delivered at Auckland from Kaituna at a prioe /which ; would .defy the competition, of any steam plant. ;'The Government recognised 'that. 1 there must .be a market for the /power "before it was .developed. He did not indicate, that.the whole, of the' works, would be started immediately. The'details would.be given in the Public Works. Statement of ..three schemes which it was proposed, to" go. on with. Two of these were Lake Coleridge and Kaituna, -but' the other . scheme had not yet been decided on. ■.*'.. Does Wellington Want the Scheme? From -the way the Wellington members had voted be had got' the impression that Wellington did not want; a, scheme gone on viitii locally.' -' -, Mr. Herdman: "You have. no right to say that." Sir Joseph Ward: "1 have a right to say what I consider to be correct;" " Mr; Luke interjected . that! he and' Mr; .M'Laren had voted for. the scheme. ;;/■-!.. ■'/ Sir Joseph said he had. to;take the attitude of the Wellington, members as .reflecting the views of their "constituents in. a matter of such importance. ■:/■ ...:'Mr. .Boss (Pahiatua): "My/ peogle are strongly, in favour ;of going on with the" Makuri scheme." ; ... , . ;... , Sir. Joseph . Ward' said that , would'.be considered., '- ' Mr. JAS.CALLEN V (Bruce) ''remarked that lie. .would'- say,' ; without' 'hesitation; that so far. <the, House. had', not sufficient facts before.it. It should be proved, that, the estimates,, • as regards cost- of construction,'. ' were/satisfactory / estimates. He • could; not find - any recommendation from Mr. Hay-on one single scheme.;-. : .Further,-Examination• Needed.-•• ■ Ho urged that tho'. House • should .have been, given tho opportunity of examining the schemes with-the aid of all the, scientific and expert evidence the Prime Minister,' had. .' He/could not convince'.himself that' the. schemes, on the evidence shown to Mm, were;:likely to; be'the; sue-, cess the Premier ; The question of the use of the power when it. had been . developed';., had' been/shirked', altogether. The-safe plan would be to. develop one picked soheme- which'-showed evidence of.being a success. • The Premier always did go. into -schemes /without. sufficient, knowledge.;:/He.had/too /much* work;, to do. -to give . proper /.time 1 , to .these matters, and-the'.country; suffered.' ; ///< Plunging in' the Dark. .. ■ Mr. HERDMAN (Wellington North) said that, he iintended'always, : to.' vote, against . proposal - which would .. .involve the ■ waste/ of v.public ; money, - Prom what; tie,'-Premier had i said: it would', ap:,' pear that 'the; Government penalise any. /constituency. /whose,. representative, dares' to; give .. expression to 1 views. Which were in, conflict. with' his own. .. If • that sort- of; thing was t0,.g0, 0n, it' would mean", dragging'politics in/the'mudi i Until the Goverrimerit/g'ot' all! : details, vtheir ''scheme was. like -plunging in : -the.' dark;;;./Engin-! eers had' .toldrhimi.'.that . the".scheme'.was of tlie wild-cat order. I ;;,/

• d'ho Hon. It. M'KENZIB said that the Government ''had - sufficient details with', •reference ;to the: Lake', Coleridge; and ' the' Hutt schemes. ;In: : his -.opinion ■ a' ; Mr.' Black, who had criticised the scheme, was.' •a ,' mere • amatour. .in. such matters. '.This .Mr.. Black-must.'be'person-i ally ;-;.He , : ;.h'ad,;ihbweyef,made'; some 'extraordinary - .statements. If the DunpdinCorporation' could -make,jft'jpipfifo of'. i 190.00 Makuri,! scheme,', ■for ; instance, which - 'would, /. also I serve' 40,000 people;- should -also pay.'. V . •S.ijytr..'Allen: J29000-less', interest. : . Continuing; Mr. MSJenzie said .that, theWellington;: Corporation' 'were : alsodoing well.: -It was . ridiculous to' say .. that current -.'couldnot ' lie carried 130 ihile's in New,Zealand;^;The, conditions, against; transmission'-: were'-: ;wet :- weather. ; ; • He' doubted; whether -.better ".climatic conditions than those which existed i" between ■Knihma and'-Auckland - existed vanywhere;. A l ; Mr.'Mbdre; '." who . . WToteV; to- .'The Dominion .on .'.the; schemi,- 'htwl no ;diffi--culty in pointing, out tho defects' ih'Mri' Black's calculations. .(If the Hutt scheme were adopted, .the Government would- -be able to sell light in Wellington at'onefourth of .the present rate. ' Good Markets Likely, ./During, the' slack "hours,, cuirent could be, sold 'in - -Wellington,; and :Christchurch v at : ®a , fractional, 'part'of- a' penny. > If the scheme were' entered, upon, the powerVcould-be. used in a few years to, develop .the iToitsand It was believed' that., ther©;.would ;;be -.',a good market for.: the ; current; in; various -• parts of the Dominion.. "-' - „'. : - Mr. PEA.Ii.CE (Patea) gave tho particulars of .Mr. Black's qualifications, as supplied .to the.."Hawera - County; Council. They; showed V (he- said) : that,' Mr.) Black had .a thorough knowledge of tho matter, of: hydro-electric /-.works. .The. - Govern-' 'ment, Mr.. Pearce, would be-prepared to mortgage. the country :■-to the /Jews in London; for: as much as they could get. If : tlie: Government brought .. .down a' scheme, for providing, wireless'.': telegraph connection- with?-Mars;-, two-thirds, of: the Government members' would, he believed, vote for it. V;';-;;;,,-:'-,-;-'-

Mr.- RUSSELL I (Avon) spoke : strongly' in* favour:;of the. scheme, whichi "was, in his opinion,- ono of- the most' practicable, business-like, 1 / and : sound . - schemes laid' before thei House; for.; many . years.' The opposition to the scliomo, lie nrped, was being -..engendered - and.: worked ...by ;' the gas companies, ofv the Dominion; (Cries • of" "No.")

%•. HOGG (Masterton) hoped that the anticipations • of. tho Government would bo realised, i-hlt .he did , not. regret". his vote.:• .-A'member',should';vote'' just as, hefelt on: a. question' of; ; such great import-; ance. It was humiliating that, members" should be, placed in the position' of being: taunted and threatened that 'works would inot.be .gone,on with, in -'.I'thcir-- district because they voted against the Government. It was the first time' he htid eyer seen members placed in. this .position. : Mr.;: RHODES (Ellesmere) ' thought; the scheme should' be." tried : first in one'spot before committing 1 the country to a number of schemes before'success of one was proved. .: /-

Jlr - HAEDY .(Selwyn): said many' of the Prime •Minister's statements ' Were erratic, and. many of them were incorrect, .but. he was prepared to support it.and. give it the:benefit of-the doubt'. •;

Against Waste of Public Money, Mr. WRIGHT (Wellington Stouth) said the Prime Minister.. had alluded to i the fact , that he; (Mr. -.Wright) and other Wellington members hail voted against the scheme; 'He was in favour of -one scheme being brought in, and he had voted,, not against water, power , being developed,but against' the, full, amount being expended. , He held "that :.the Government should concentrate on one scheme first, and prove it. Ho would strongly favour. : this. It was unfair 'and ungenerous of . . the Prime Minister, to :be continually threatening the Wellington members. He could say definitely that he would always vote against waste of public mdney. Mr. LUKE (Wellington SnburbsV, in prefacing his remarks, complimented Mr. Buchanan on being one of the most enterprising business men in New Zealand in his pioneering work oh behalf of . the freezing industry. . . . . , Jffc ' BTrcniANAN' .(Wairarapa) ' said that, -willing as lie was to be! convinced, ho . was not satisfied that ■ the , scheme would be a success.. .He iwould .remind, members.: that the Department's/ original estimates' with reference to the', Ilutt duplication works , were, all wrongi : . And they were-on familiar ground. ; Could it lie that 'the 'information .ill Mr. Hay's, reports was; now up-to-date ? Mr. Black's knowledge, of the subject . was. greater than that: of Mr. Hay. The. PRIME MINISTER, in ,-reply,said tluit the figures he had quoted in connection with the scheme, wore Mr. B:irks',. .of. Rotorua.'Mr. Symington,' engineer, of Invercargill, had also spoken m favour .of the scheme. If thaje2so,ooo

substituted for the ,£500,000 in the Bill it would not, have, been, sufficient. - He did suggest that because 6omo Wellington niembers voted for. reduction the Hiitt soheme wonld not be.gone on with. ~ At. 1.45 a.m.:the Bill was'Tead'a third time and passed. .

, TWO; OTHER : BILLS PASSED. ■ The By-Laws Bill and the Oaths Bill were put through their final-: stages. ' The House adjourned at 2 a.m. . :. ARBITRATION BILL. In the; Industrial. Conciliation and 'Arbitration Amendment Bill, which .is'being brought before the House, provision is made,in' the' direction 1 o£ conferring upon the Arbitration Court '. power l -to make aivards-.-apply.'.whore' - necessary 'to ' the whole Dominion. , ■ /', An amendment of the Act : vrfth 'a view to giving the Court power to make an award ; for domestic servants Was suggestedlast.'week -by-:Mr. ..T:': E'. Taylor. - The Minister for- Labour has/replied that the Act already ..gives . the Court -power. to make an -award: if it thinks fit to:do:so. '. v '" : NEWMARKET WORKSHOPS. Since a complaint was hade 1 -some time ago .of. the 'conditions prevailing at ;the. Newmarket Railway ' workshops,,. there have,' been intermittent. ..references.. to; the..subject-in Parliament;;., Mr. C. H. Poole, M.P. for Auckland ' West,;■ said; on .Tuesday that he bad,.-received; communications from men engaged in the workshops, complaining; that there 1 wasa good deal ' of. dissatisfaction . with' "the administration. . These men particularly requested .-that, their names should not be divulged, or, they -might'be in serious trouble, but ilioy had asked him to press, thei ";Departmerit to -look into the 'administration of the railway, workshops. It should; not bo that men were- placed' at - of .the,foreman, or manager;: in. connection-.- with ■ or- other, privileges:'. He was not making definite, charges, but there was justification for an inquiry. The Minister' for Railways (the: Hon. J.-'jA. Millar)/ said /previous complaints had' been' mad© of- driving at'.•the!-. New--mai'ket!. AVorkshops, : and -they, had: been' dis])roved. The ofiicer ; in-.cliarge" of., the •Workshops. was one -of / the, best; it the service, ..•although..he got fair work; out of -th-ei men,;.andthey: were: probably doing more ; : than they did lord.''i: :^ V'Jlr. Poole: This is not a protest against work. y,;..', ; :"> ;Mr.. Millarj said'that the Engineer-in-Chief j. "and- -General of:'- Railirays livould in Auckland shortly,\-and whichever') was there; ■' first - would' '.make inquiry into tho complaints. .'