WATER-POWER WORKS.

Dominion, Volume 4, Issue 947, 14 October 1910, Page 7

WATER-POWER WORKS.

;fyjOVEfiWMENrS SftHtME tiISdUSSgD. i■,'.■;{ SHOTB; OF C4OTKBT SOUNDED. v % ■'. V JUiero *aS ail; iirterfettng : discti&idii in with the "second reading of the ,Aid to WaieTvpower Works Sill,, frhieh ■ foroposes'.flrat. ehall>bo raised for jtho of the water poWere of ... ihia■ Dominion.-V;.;' J-'?''■':'■' ■:■'>':•;}. :".': vMr, GUSSET reminded the 'Hbiiso: that ; 'Vims; case ; wns : tha fourth, Loan .Bill which

: ■ ha& coma beforo the Houeo' this, session, V (and ; he pafl not. Quito sure that, : that was '■'■,-. "Koiiig-to 'bo thoVlasr,.. :VTys:e--were - tro-, '■::, jjnendous potentialities in the water-power' ':' -jof ithb Dominion;,: particnlafly in the ': KdnQi.. Ifilaitd;.'..'-.The; last word- tad:"not :;' jboen .heaifd in the development of elcctri-' >cal jp6wer,and he raged that in .view, of . ahisfact one, scheme should bo' taken.in . ..;9rand, and., one-only;to .begin .with. ;It :. idldv not'-.. matter to him -'• whether that y'feoMmo'wMvlocftted 'in',tho'.'North' ofviii :.V■ itho Sotrft'lsland; 'Whim it .'wasVshown' .:.'-,'(flit one'soheme.' had tieon successful, tho ;:: jfloVottonbnt -' colild... ce'tae . to the.' Hoiise -.'(with ;furtherVproposate, ( The,.■; ■ Premier" '-:.'•.. jbaid; however, not beeil able, io- ehoiV that Iflie: 6cheinb would bo profitable, V It - had stated: that, light cohld,be supplied .- .Gbvommeht;at twopence.per ,unit, : ,' '■ .pndVpower at oho;" penny. per Unit,■'.- In ■ .'.[Dmiedln:-the. corporation .was', charging ■'■'■_ «xao(;ly double thoso prices. '..Then,'.'again, ; sJo:;w(juld like to know where all the cus-' '.. itotners were to. come.from; in. view of tho ,: : yery' large ambilnt of power that was >? . proposed to b6 dev'elopeUi He objected V;V,. v -the initial"expenditure of such a large

suhi as ,£sou,otlo. In Committeo lib wouldmove . that : the amount be reduced by half.', . ":■..•■■;• ~;'" /-./, Nitrogenous Manures. ' ..Mr. G. M. THOMSON, (Diiriedin North) ! said that no matter how. cheaply power cduld..be l .producetl it would take' a Jong tiine','before the whole could lio,,utilised. i Thb/Dunediii corporation wore;making, a; yery' good, thing out Of.'their. AVaipori: works.. This was "shown by the fact that it'intended to'enlarge; its operations. .He: was ,iii favour of the Government's. proposals, but .would.' like' to : sound. a, iioto of warning ; in'the matter. AVith tile.aid of. cheap /power/nitrogenous mamires could be 'manufactured.'. at ..a leasbnable rate. The farmers' : were under- the that such manures were not.wanted hero. Our 'analysts'.-said'so.' This/was a. mistake.: 'New.; soils did.' not. heed. thein s but, subli .was .not the :.case, with regard-to. soils' "which.'had. .been 'under cultivation for many'years; Nitrogenous manures raised'.the,yield of cereals to a v&y- considerable extent at an'economic! fate. : . Mr.- WILFOED' (Hutt) : ..said ; that ■ the, rDuriediiUcorporatio'n, wore.making a loss, in regard to.current.for lighting. ..Before . they. could make a' profit;they;would hot need a, great niany additional.subscribers. He- approved -of-, the '-proposal that .the State should. cbhtrbl '•tho -water; powers .of . the Dominion.' It was- the 'greatest scheme' which, had ever. been. launched/in any 'country:" He .would like ■ to know .whether the "Government had sufficient. data on the .point..; lit.the. last' year.or two,ma-, ehihery had,beeri invented'which had.nia.feiaUy/reduced/'tho cost .of producing": power. :i He .did. not-think-:'that; .power' 'could /be 'sold- 'by /thd. Government.;.:.'as cheaply.: as' tho ■' Prime Minister:, had ; stat-! edii'-is the.works wotild.be susceptible. to' deprecation;'it sinking['.-.fund,.;was'es'sen-.tial^;>v.J-''.H;'■:lv':,'-..' %■.'■•■ "■■',*' Probable-: Effect in WelHngton.;'-/ • v - -Mri FisherV-'Whatwiil. be the. effect in Wellington? ./'^'v'-',,;^/,,/'W'"'/'-' , ', Mr; /Wilfofdr, We:,will: eitjier; have: ; to. 'reduce,our-prices or :buy,;ffbm, the GbW erhnient, ;and the Gas' Coinpaiiy may have "te;cl6se';up;- : -'; T r'v;'-' : ;.'/.-'/'-v.:/;'// ■/- Inconclusion,. Mr.: 'Wilfprd. said: that if > the'- Government -had: not all tie .neces-' sary. information bA'-the point it?,should., ■defer.-the'; inauguration'df its/scheme-for; twelve','nibhth's:■!.-■,'-.": /// 'v. ■.■;:'-' '■■:•...' S'V.v'l'■:.■■ .-'Mr. .ALLEN..(Bruce) said that the:Gov- . gfnfflSht had: adopted a dog-in-the-manger : policy;-in '-regard/ to:/water power. ,' It; LWOuld-iiotSdevelop -the powers : or'allow; anyone-else to'do!.so. /This:policy-would; have ;"to; be broken ;d6,wh.':,: : After:,'paying 'interest oh/the; cost.of (construction,/ the; 'D'uhedih/'corporation! madeja-' proht' of; betwe«n/.£soOO;.and ;5E6000,, last fyearj which : was available:to meet' /arid it; was hope^.that.a profit,of would; iieiiriade/next year.-;-'He: would: like':;.:to. :know- whether'.the-.estimates.,wereabased \bn -ihb /continuous'/or.,' the-.intermittent, use of .theVpowers ; -dcveloped., "li;view'of the'valiie of-ah irrigation scheme in the :Otago>Central>- the: sTeyipt -, River! scheme 'should/be- one'; of/ the ..first .' ohes.Kto.vVbe, launohed.t'lt .ehbuld.be ,;inadb'.oleai\*tbat.: the' State .was -not -going.to,lose, over -the: : schemes;- '* ; The brake hbrs"e' pdiver: \ lVliidli-, ; c6uld,'be' produced 'in ,; -tfee..North Islan'd: ; was''sdbj)oO,- as: against, oyer ,3,200,000: "in ; the; South'' Island; The.Government' should ic^;/'v'i.i'':';'vv^vl-i;.; -: ! ::'/' .Ah ;!6ptini!itrb';MembeK : '':M-1 '- ■,- 'BROWN '(Napier).cbrigrat;ulate'd the') 'GoverninefitSUpdh itSipraposals.-'lliv;was' 'recognised in' America that railways-could be run 2'i*'per:cent. : cheaper,:by electricity, thah'iby Those; ■terests- would probably.'"'object.:.• , ;t6:. ; ,-:the. scheme;- as'they'-already-had/machinery fdif. developing >'p6wer;}'vFroni; ; \Lake'- Wai- 1 . .kai'embaha-. 184,000.'.'hbrse, -potter : 'cbuld. be: -developed .alone./; Bi;,regretted-;that;the Priine Minister,had made no. mention.in; his j statement''to,' the'Vl'e Binga Falls or Lako ; . -Waikaremoana.;-..-"These.':schemes. were'/: he -'understbodj/.tb \ be/included in. :the/'scheme:'/A ; sbkeme;:l6'JirOVldß^for; power ;.for.the/whole. of'-the,! iDoininioii'.: -would cost;only; to,- *«Jfc.«•.>!,'■.,: ';-; Mi'.'ißuohonan'.i'.Mot-'.mUoh, ivhehiyotti Bij,,] .it .quickly.'/.-//////'v//;'//;//.- , /,'//-:: : ! - Mr: Brown: iWoll, I will- say ':it.-;slowly.j 1 /'''/; /-':.;./.;; -; In'conclusis'ni Mr.'-Brown'said-thatvNbw l ;Zealaiid7shbiil.d .vle^d;;;the.: : *6rld'lh. I ''the matter;' ' : ..Thbre-, was /no/poVertjr, 1 in.JNew,Zealand;: : despite/'all--the; talk', about, taxation.',^'lf the ifaiiways/and/industries/were 'Heptft' 'fiS'd;."-;all''/manufactures' "would/bD.,^ cheap-', ,ened:'/'/He: ; :blamed.:th'e'Government/.fp'r ; ' ,:nbt/:ihtrbddcinp; /its/scheme:;.:years 'ago. ; '. ' Supposing-/the. two niillionS/were alllosti. New Zealand:.'cbuid;-stand,;itV,';';-He;knew:; -that...there -Wouldi.b'a''s'oinpTbbjectioll;.':be-, causa .-there. w'erb/ttpiesbhtativ'es ;bf '.the House'.';':-'l-- V '[" ■''"'' : "^'V■' :/Mr.- Fisher-. Listen 'to thein/ i (Laughter;) .'North); heldthat: the State' ; should .c'ontrpl. the/'water, jpbwers/of'■ the Dominion; f i The: Lake 'Coleridge, schem"^ .'promised'; tp-^be; dn'ihlniediate.suDcess;';'..';;:';////;:'/:'

Ondlie/Haste (v /:■;'•:-;./-''■': ; ; ;;Mr//Ci2:H; r ' p6oiAi/' : West) said /the';' question':, was: con-' trol.otv private/tentrbl/'ahd;.ih the:.lhterV, of;'the-people,, the. former should! be. adopted;/Mr/Poole.urge'd/thattho scheme, : should; be,:advancod by .progressive stages, and that,'! according.;:to■■ the■'.'.demand,, so' '.should be the' supply'- given by the /State.; The Administration -shpuldbe, on- the most economical lineSj'; because'sometimes there ■was 'a; disposition.in' State .ventures to^.ex-' .travagahce,' which' robbed' tho; ventures' of • their, attractiveness.and''s'Uci^ssr'.:/..'' :.', Mr/ LUICE . (WelUhgtoh/Suburb's) said' that he- was in (favour; of :'a, : trial being made/of: the .proposals; -/He/would,' howT ever,'sooner.' HaVo, §een ; One; 'scheme' tried, first../;' Owing, to./the, snialler: : ;|cqst', in regard." ,td'?. the' /transmissioh; /' the ■'/Hntt scheme should receive-first'consideration/ , :Mr;; MANDEB (Marsden):'said•■ that;if■ ■the: scheme : was/,.properly conducted, it. .'would be /of great-.benefit.' to •.-the •cbuh-. try.': "When'it \vas,fairly established;'electricity; would be universally in tho werkfibop'and htofcn./-Ee was.gladthe Government going to.■'undertake thti ..Wtoft-raffi^'chMe/;./;'ii;/,/;;..;:-,\'^/;//^.;'. ; /., - Oppbneht N of /-tha /Sciienid:;'// ■) /.^;- ; /',,-:/.;/:; //Mr.^AECE;^atea) ; thought that;'prK *ate, enterprise should have: the right -to usb- the! water 'power on certain ■.cdudK tidns,.including:.tho! power/for'! the' State to purchase after, tw.enty or;thirty/years/ He was; going to protest agaihst v 'further borrowing : on big!schemes..' If!thb/whblb schfemo. were./adoptedj''it. would' mean; that , J20u,000,000;. would■'.- ". bis:./involved. Under;; the 'schemes.- ; the. • cities/woiild. get the ' benefit /of at',-.the'■ ,es4" pense; of!. ..the.'. -'cbuntry... distribtsi/'i/:'The Hawcra';,Electric:Lighting/Co;, bbuld only . sell, half'the; it. could ;prdduco, and it had never\pfiid<:a ; dividend./; This! showed ■■• that .'.■: small ;•• schemes,-in the country : districts Vi'iyould. ::hot /.be ■ a Buccess.!: Under \.the. 'Scheme population would: bo ;encoiiraged' tb', drift -into/the • cities./:'. ',■■'■-. ■.■.':•'.■■■'■.{■ ;./ ''■'■•■ -/ ".■'.'";.!:-. ■'

v-Mr.,'FIELD-(Otaki) thought a' further report: should. be obtained with reference-, to: a. scheme.in.-regard to. one' of tho rivers/running from''the.TaraTuasV' 1 . Mri. BUCHANAN (Wdirarapti)'.said: he; had a- high opinioil,;o^..thq.'beUefits-tovbe derived: from 'harnessing, tlfo'vi-atfer power, but he. differed from/, a pfoK'iousV.speaker : as to:how the ;scheine should/be carried out./. Tim. attitude'flf.'.the- Goverfimciitvfor many years had'been.-one. of. indecision.: Many expertrrionts. had - been carried.' out. lit regard to electric power,- and. it;;\vas.' the duty of, >fJio V Government in the strongest possible . manner that " they should not .touch this project -uritil :tl)ey proved that they had; the' latest-and 'most up-to-date'. information -. on;; _the. - Biibjeith' The latest information was.in,' Mr. Hay's 1 report of .1908. ■: This vgentleman -'was 'a capable engineer, btithehad not had.the opportunity -of specialising in this \work as,:did' sOmo of the experts .tit; Niagara, for instance. '• _ •'; .;.'.'■ \- ■ "■■'.. Up-to-date Information' Wanted. . It would h e foolish: in the last degree for 'us to enter'.'into'.'this'large expenditure ,before thei highest skill available, no matter, .what it cost, was seemed by the Government, He did not think any of, the Government engin-eci's were qualified to take up this particular important work. ' To get the best men aviiilijble would thko a considerable time, "nhd yet wo were supposed to . have part of . the scheme in operation in a year or two.'Ho would support tile amendment suggested by Mr. Massoy to reduce tho amount of money tho Government may bo empowered to.borrow,.' "■'■,

Mr. ROSS (Pahiatua) did not think there was.tiny need for tho note of warning sounded by the Opposition members. It was a progressive proposal, and ho agreed with it. The Makuri. stream, in his district, had been reported oil in 1904 by Mr. Hay,-who estimated that it would produce (1000' horse power; 'If tho Government; got .'an .undertaking'in- writing from lliose' ill the' district connected With industries, who. wfliild iiso the power thero would be no heed of fear for 1 this'particular -scheme. !

-Mr.FUASER (AVakatipU) -thought it, .Sviis, too'larj;b an order to start oh all, the' works proposed at • once, ft would ■be better, to'take updone or two'works, and push thein oh as well- as and skill could do It; . .It; .-'would 1 not be wise to .rush..in to.all these schemes/at oiice. . Mr. DllAONdtewke's Bay) urged that tlie.'-Lako- AVnikareiuoaha scheme should be- adopted first..' Ono .scheme in the North' Island, andv oho in tho ' South Island should be taken in hand before any. other schemes woro commenced. ~ Views of tlie HdMiß.M'Kenzie. : ,Tlie : : Hon! R.VM*KENZIE (iii reply) said' that the had most-in-formation.. about the- Lake Coleridge scheme. As -i-egards- th'e Hufct scheihe .a reservoir-'ai'ea of 280 . acres nail already been'bought. ;The:headworks in connection with 'ithe Lake- ; Colei'idge scheme would /cost Altogether -.the scheme 'would- run- into As soon as: 3000 : h;p;' \veva disposed of it. would jneld-.a return of 'oyer JBSGsOOO. In connection; with the Waipprl-' scheme.;,at Duneditt there . had been enormous - deTOlopmente. -'....Most - 0f... the - current was used.dn; cdnhectibh , : wil;h;. dbinestio: appli j . ances;'...The<AVaipori scheme; .which inade. a good profit; cost iGI32 jierli.p.;' whilst' the i Kike; ColeHdge scheme would ; cost ..£4O per"li;p.-, 'and.-.the'.Hutt per' liip.',-' Power would be.-sold in "Wel-lingtoii-.aiidJChristdhiirch'at one-third : of the cost at,; Diitiedihv; During ;the busy :hours-/the cost -would/hot-■' exceed ohfe penny';per.unit./;The. United States had 31 f'iniliibii h;p. in ilse;/ He did not think the .electrical power in. use- iii :.'Ne;y 'Zealand ; ,exceeded.:.2o,ooo-. h.p*- ;•:At present; about 125,000 h;p:! was/required in : New Zealand/ It waß not - possible to, Supply. power in-Wellington,generated By steam 1 at-double, .the ;cost, which the. .Govern.-; nient ■ could'•' Supply : it from the Hutt., No i One .could guess .as to-how, niany- hew, usesivoiild: bb found for electricityi,"Thepower;at Manapourd and Te Ahau. could plMiice'tniilions; ef' poundsi of hitrogen-, oUs manure; If. there was. no'market in .New;- Zealand /for. ; the- manure '-o'ne-'.waS' available iii; Australia'.;' '//',//..''■:-. the Besi/.'Markets in New Zeatahd: - • ■ / AVheri. ;the'. schemes 'were 'put in; opera-; tioh'every.larfri:.in tW, vicinity of'.the '. transmission.', lihe -.would- find, that - it .wpiikl pay to' biiy.'current. /No'-dbubt.it , ivas': triie; "as' Mi'. ■'llissey had ■ said;■'-. that; a!; market'-.must'.first he found, for the' ;p^,wir;'\;!twiV6f.''th* , :.dhHstchurch;';ahd;. Auckland.;, 'rhfeiva-was'ftlsb. a;'market 1 in Wellihgton; and /there 'might; bsffiho .in : . : Otagd..,and. Soiithlaiid;' •;. Certaiiily there '■ was. a :hiarr. ketpii. the,'3sast Coast.: It, : >'as'liigli,tihi6 that' the 'schemes-Avei'e ehtei-ed. Upon; '■. Ho felt '■' that the r'finitncial /i'Psults ; ;'would'; be satisfactpry. froni'the'start; Even, iii; NJew-. tiihber.'was yei'y plo'nti-; 'Wl;,;:the'''pebple;''did:'their'-heati.itg-'-by'.'ileo ; ; .tricity; 'Everywhere' that; similar schenics • had: jbeen -/.adopted'!: the';" result', '.had / been: :to drive' the • people : dtit of the.towns-into' the cbUuitry( ; aM ; ho.t.-Vice.H ; eJßa.as ; .had been ;averi'ed<by; some/members;:- .-.The/fact: .Was;J that people. ,fpuhd...': that.-' it/ - was> '.cheaper, to establish; indiistries; : :.'ih,:; the countries;.than'.in the' cities.,.-;' He".W ; b"uld atlimt :.it ( -was, a safe.' thing to ■ Ijo' oii. the ;safo sidei/buif-New ' Zealand-,'should; get'-, .a.'inOye oh/in,regard;to'this.mattef; ■/?■■' Would Give. Mining,a,NeWiileaselof Life.- ', /This.,. bouiitry y had;; ine^cr;'; decided .. toi borroiv money,for ailjbtter,ehterprisb.. As Ihe-;-country."-.gi'eivii the electrical: poWer' .■'would- make/New- Zealand the best.tiiahiU : factliringi country:, in' the' Southern': HeinK .sphere!. Last; year, in' South: Africa- there Was one.';co,nipany:;.;w,hich' : .spent'six, .times; ;as. ;.hiuch;''as New'. ..Zealand proposed to.; expehd;'ih the- first /yoar.\. It .was: bflund tp/ha,ye'.a',yei'y: great effect onthe mining indi!stlfy^ i ';vi;u j 'i;facV. it;, would givo;;tho'. .mining 'industry on .tho' West .Coast and iitt'OtagoU hew;.lease of, life.., Then, again, ;it;-:w6iild; enabie'Trrigatibh "to 'ho- carried •.Oil'ih;Central,Otago,;where it,'was.badly heeded,"/': Local.bodies; Would lie 'interest-' .edZtd; v khow . that; .the,, cost.; of breaking lnetal, 'wouldvbo; cheapened- 'by/; three-' fourths by the.-.usc,of electi;icity. ,',;ln thb Tublic WorkskStatetneht lib Would give further'details, in! regard.to,'the, sbhenle. It;rdigtit"also, be necessary;for, hiih tplay cet'taili/.'papers: 'before ,;Parliamonti;:.'/He' regretted- that/Mrv.'M'assey.;thought, that' ■ the amount,proposed to.be devoted for the. 'purpose should-bii cut dtjwn;bylialf.: Tho melitiondd,: in.v the '.nleaslrtp' was J a ; reasbhable sum. >■ He was'.perfectly.sat:, Isfied/that. it'; Vas ;■ better.'f or -the' --'fipTern-.. inen't/tb'develop the water,,ppWers.tlian to, allp'wj'tli'e local -bodies .'to?;'carry Vout' the ■'undertakings./ .'He'.thought:that-the', peo-, .pie 6h':tlie.-East:.Coast.'had;.a jiiat claini' .on the! Government in : the thattcf;./ Auckland; :tpo/;W6urd,;be : :,welisDiyed,by;'the, •.Kaitnna.'scheme.;;;/. '■■■■':".'•■' ;;.;'/;;:,; .:■/;.'

Competition; With/ Local Bodies/!'/.r./. : > //Mii yAfM/MTfEßSXAtickiantt East) raised'. the/question'; of •'■ competition 1 -with; - local bodier/which •- liiid. ■-' already'emb&fked/'in this ■-enterprifeV'^ ::i OTib ■ :Auckia^'. O.ity' Council lad 'embarked on this scheme, and was/ enlarging:.its' plant, '.but; iit■ li' • few/ .years it-would.find:■ ./-the 'Government"'a' Se'ridus'/conlpetltbi'.^igSei'suggSßtetl •■.. the Government/should "make a; statement as. tov AVhat-.policy ■'■ it', intended to adopt in! respect to';: competing • ~w,ith : , local bodies, <:'■ 'i;.Mr. : :-HBREIBS/(Tailra'ngii)' pointed"out. that if ctobide were/manufactured in .New Zealand ''the:'igas-i\v*duld : , compete'.with ;.thb' .elMtTioity;.i/ i -.Tho^/. , 'memi)6re-\l.wbVS'liiid stated :■ that- small'farmers' i would/be/ able to. n gflt;.smdU supplies of electrical ;powe'r , '&ls^aken,^'|^'ttiilras,-tlMrt'^vcre':trißi& ; formers; everybody'.-who tapped the trans-' m'ission'line would;get. the full: voltage,' ..with'thb.result that -tlieii' premlsei/might. be. burne ddowiii •' It -.would not pay:/ to instal ..transformers; where' only /a. small quantity.-,was Quired;/.'; As & : :'generai projectj '.everybody,'agfeed iyitll'the': pixt.*posal.: But/it. should: be/placed ~beforb the House in a business-like way./ ' ; .'■ Mr/ aOGG- (Masterton), said, that, rlie thought he /would support. a proposal-, to reduce /the amount to. be. spent annually:' uhder.';the proposals/ : - v : / ,-•■;.■';'.•.,,-.;:,/ ./'Messrs.. Stallworthy/,Macdonald, M'tar/ en,/.and' LaurcnSoir. supported, the'. pro-' liosala.of ..the. Government?,; '::';; :'(/ : .'; Jl'he-Bill .was then read a second; timb.' '■; RIVER BILL/ ' The Kiver-Board's Amendment Bill, wis put .through its rflndl stage's.■:;. '/' ■/,■■;% -,;.- ■•'■'. '■■■'';':'■;;/■;BY-LAWS' BILLi/'/'M, _;'" : . : In moving, the second ■ reading..of.,thfe By-Laws BUI, ...".■ :•■;■■/.'/: - f ho:;Hbh;.:J./OARKOLIi. reiharked'that tlie'Bill was more of a technical Bill thanotherwise,. and' made necessary. alterations, .in the:law/, that had: been ■ hi'' force" -. for 'nl«ny;';y«fti , s/-/i-.'Afi>eSpendit'ur6/..''d{-. maiiyv hundred/pounds Oil /'litigation ;• had been, enforced '■ on local .bodies under the' oldlaw./'' . :/-.-'; ■//!■■'/ K //. ••; ':".-•■'. ■' '■•": i SeVeral speakers' agreed that the Bill .would, be ; exceedingly Useful, and . would, savo/ contiiuitL trouble -'iu'" ; the Courtsi The duly /objection / raised/ was ; to the twelve months-limit within .which existing: by-Ia.WS I ihust 'bo- conili'medi It "tfns urged/that a period of three years shoui-1 bp -fixed;.' .';-■:■ '' ":'•."' X'■■.''-■.' '

The MlNlSTEß,,'in'the course of'his ;reply, said the:'credit, of. tlife Bill' was due to.the'Attorney-General. As to the siig- ■ gested .aimMldineilt. in the direction that tho.. confirmatory .process should. not.'■. bo; han'ed by aiiy liiiiit, so fat as existing by-ltiws.are ooncerned, he was.not against it personally, and before the Ceinmitteo stage .ho. would consult with the Attorneys General on.the matter. Another sifegeition had bedlithade as to a Model Bylaws Bill. lie did" not think" any such; Bill could be incorporated in the present measure. ■ Tho principle' was gdbrt, biit it would. have to be, incorporated in-some largeri.Bill. A, question, of this nature .would have to be faced.,-, ■ . The second reading was agreed to. OATHS; BILL. In moving the., second reading of the Oaths Bill, '-', Tho Hon. J. CARROLL remarked that the object of tho Bill was to abolish' the insanitary praotico of lcissing. tho Book oil 'hiking the oath. .This form of oath/had already boon abolished in England. Alternative forms, pt' Oiith wei'o provided by the Bill. No chhhgo was niado hi re* gard to,all forms of oath now pevwiaiblo.

The old forhis reniained lawful, though they would no longer be obligatory. The second reading whs agreed to without discussion.

" INALIENABLE LIFE ANNUITIES BILL.' The Inalienable Life Annuities Bill was read a second time, pro forma, and was referred to the Statutes Revision Committee. MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS BILL. In-moving tho second reading of the Municipal Corporations Amendment Bill, The Hon, D. BUDDO said that the Bill nlade-soiue important alterations.ill/tho existing-law, and when it went before the Committee, lie- would-',be prepared; to go into all details. ' ,

; Mr. FBASHR-(Waktipu) said, that in many, respects the Bill. ivh.s. an improvement In the, present laWj but it did not make provision, for many of. the matters asked, for .by the. Municipal Conference; They could not .expect to have them all in, but ho the Minister should circulate, a list of the: suggestions from the conference before the. House was hskod to. go into the .Bill. . In regard to' the matter of voting for, loans, there was ho alteration;as.far as.lie poiild see.. The principal • Work on the Bill • would have to be'done'in Committee. Views of tflr. Luke, '-,'''" ' ■'/ ./.Mr; LpiOD (Wcllingtbn^Subiirbsj. hoped. the Minister ,wohld see: his way to adopt the suggestion of'. Mr,: Frasel. .•.Eeferringto Clause 10, dealing .with' overdrafts}; the Speaker said'the'provisions bf, the Bill; could not be .given effect tb in the base of a trainway accident; .He agreed that the council should have; power to pay. off -anbverdr'aft,: as suggested ih the Bill. . Clause ,U,. dealing .with the question.of amalgamation bt-bofpughsj. needed very careful cOhsideratibh. The Wellington City Council: had already .connected Up. di'aihs;for private people, as suggested .-in the Act t and . the scheme., had proved a boon to 1-esidents.."; fie. thought the Scheme ..might, be.extended toincbrpbratß. iv.ater^in. the; clause. /' •■-' - . ■■;■. "..; Mi'. WILFDRDdEtutt). said, the Bill waa bertainly ali advance-in. municipal legislalioh, but.some,of;the. most lmpoftaflt re-: hiits winch were ..passed. ;unahimpusly, by the Municipal Conference had .beehfover-lobkeaaltbgether.-.-'/He'was affhid that a. great deal of the ardour; of the' municipal, experts' of the Domihibii would be .damped if ihorb prominence .waf. not given to;. the recbmmbndatioijs which they; had made., ■ The Conference Remits,' : .; " ;; ' ■ ;' Machinery remits so -necessary I ,in tho government of a/ borough had/been''omitted ■'..wholesale.-.- ; He had ■ six or. seven sides, of typp-.writteh: foolscap- 1 pages'to fyalSvith,!. and he hoped that the Govern/ ihont/Would ''accept;some of/ the'; recomniehdatibhs.he: wbuld make .when:,the Bill was;in Cplnlhittee. / It would put;heart ;bf grace lutb thb..conference ifvsoihe of the remits' were I'oUhd to be incorporated ih: thb 8i11..'-./Astbthe complaint/made by ; .Mr;/Pras6f ,as' : to; the;birpulatibn'6f Ihe remits f rbiii'. the conference, he iiiUst hold the' Minister.-to blame..', Of.cpiirso,lhe vMiiiis--ter;/wdiud/;say that the ' Goyerhment .l'ri.ntaiv-was- .'.vei'y bUSy,- aiid of- course' he was fi'glltj ,but it-was'a good,many Weeks since the remits were sent on. 'Ho' hoped the; Minister would- See .'that the 'draft. in the, hands, of.: the 'prihter : iv'as"-. dealt with; so ,that; in '(jbmniittee' member's would' hm ;thb; l'eihits' of;. tlib- bbiiferellce/before ■them.'-.;'■;;;:•-.'■"'-'': '.'// " •'./. •,'.'■';'/'■■/''.' - ; '"/ ToWh-Planhihg Sbhenje Uhjed, ;

Mr; HANAN,'(liivetcargill) -.'urged, that, the. time:had',arrived, when ■;the Govern-' hibht, should- bring ,/foi'\vard'/ a ■'" TownPlaiihingj' Bill;;'. Thb/object lessbhs.' fUf- ; nislied' in t Ne\y- Zeal and should- be: .' su Hi/ cieiit;'tb .convince; ariypiiorthat;the''.tihie Was ripe'fbr': such-a'Bill. ;'.. /•■.;.';'',;;,;/,' //Mr/'.■■sEli'. (Christchurch ■ :■ South)- 'ex-, pressed ,'liis sortOW'; that- power'-'was not given: to establish ;'mu'iiicipal/flsh markets. He .hoped/this power .would be gkeh.. / that as/the Bill- stbb'd'/it w'buld'l-haVe'. his : support/'t'.bu.t- ; in' .Would .■ be, mtich ihipl'Oveil'. by giving coil-' sideration' to ;; the. decisions of' tho;M.Uni--cipal ■ and ; Libraries' ; Cbhferehce; /

■;• In'-reply ihg ; ;tho: Minister-stated"- thatIhe ,'best possible had v.been , done ; withtho remits from.' the Municipal Conference,; which : rbniits'.; C6yered| a. period' of three. years. • • It' vyas.; riot Usual to-print' th^pjremits,.'but members.could'isiibmlt' .them'.'ln,-: the'; form of '■','d/. "supplementary "firdei 1 been fully gbrib; intp./; Hb/did not think ''the; loans .could; be.' extended; to ''water.-, supply cpnMotibns,'as/Buggcßted;:l)y..Ml;',; iLTike,';althbtigh the/.suggestion' was .' brie ; that tempted..sympathy.;. Thb-'other matteis ..mentioned- could' ■be , brought. forward/ in .Committee. ,;ThPro,was .still ;a. cpnsiderAblb';.Sm'pulitl'.'.'of,•'work, .td'-'ho,;-..done' iii rCbmmitteei'/bUt-- he /'thought '.'■', that'/the' Hbusp.,Wbuldtagreo : that... tlio' : ; prihbipal' matters referij'ed- by/the .'Municipal' ;Cbh-. forerice.'had.beeh^dca.lt'with; ■ , '■;., .;■; /iThe'.seCbrid '■ reading was. agreed to.'. .: ■;