THE REFORM DEBATE

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 770, 19 March 1910, Page 5

THE REFORM DEBATE

POSITION OF THE PEERS.

LORD COURTNEY ON REPRESENTATION. SPEECH BY LORD LANSDOWNE. "OLD TRADITIONS SHOULD BE RETAINED." By Telegraph-Freea Aesociation-Oopy'rißht. (Rec. March 18, 9.25 p.m.) London, March 18. Continuing the debato in the House of Lords on Lord Rosebery'a reform resolutions, Lord Courtney of Penwith discussed tho question from the standpoint of divergence between the two Houses, and incidentally criticised the House of Commons as not being a true council of the Nation, owing to the absence of representation of some great , elements. Just as great elements were also absent from the House of Lords. Ho concluded by detailing his scheme of representation in the House of Lords of Capital, Labour, and Nationalists.

Lord Lansdowne emphasised the fact that nobody objected to going into com-, mittee on the resolutions, inasmuch as suoh an attitude would bo equivalent to declaring the House of Lords to bo perfect. He dwelt on the seriousness of the proposal to ask a large number of peers to surrender their duties and privileges. , ... ■ .'.'■■■.

The Line Betweon Reform and Revolution. He hoped Lord Eosebery would submit an ultimate scheme which would maintain continuity, and keep on the right side of- the line between reform and revolution. .The House of Lords was a going concern, with considerable goodwill which ought not to be sacrificed. 'If new blood were introduced, the old traditions should be retained. Hβ would greatlj regret any alteration in the name of the House of Lords—a name whereof they had no reason to be ashamed. Hβ, trusted , that any reform would be on an equitable and reasonable basis, not excluding the hereditary principle. The country's recont verdict waa no wholesale condemnation;.'■ of the Lords. The principle of reform should be'a, simple one. He remarked that one picturesque and. attractive, but unpractical suggestion favoured including representatives of the oversea Dominions. ■. Surely an Imperial Parliament was one thing, and a Second Chamber another. He would ask those familiar with the opinion of the great colonies whether' the . latter greatly desired to be associated with the Motherland in the everyday work 'of legislation. He die. not think 'the Dominions would part with their best men , for the • purpose of attending, nor would they be grateful for the amount of representation granted, 'which would, necessarily be small. Lord Lansdowne concluded by reviewing, the various practical methods of reform.

;., VIEWS OF LORD CREYVE. LORD ROSEBERY'S- RESOLUTIONS AGREED TO. (Rec. March 18, 9.45 p.m.) London, March 18. Lord Crewe (Secretary of State for the Colonies) said he would not oppose the resolutions, bnt the primary and urgent question concerned the relations of the two Houses. What, was unpopular was not the hereditary principle, but the uncontrolled exercise of hereditary power. The Honse of Commons must have a say regarding any reform, of . the House. of. Lords. ~ ' ';. : ..'.■ ;, V. Lord Rosebery's resolutions were then agreed to. ■ They are as follow:— . . (1) That a strong and ■ effioient Second Chamber, an: integral part of the Constitution, , is necessary .for the • well-being of the State and the balance of Parliament. '■-. •• ■■•■■■•■ •' (2) That such a Chamber can best be obtained by the reform and reconstruction of the House of Lords. (3) That a necessary preliminary to such' reconstruction is the accept-, ance of the. principle that the pos- : session of a Peerage no longer of itself gives the right to sit and vote ,-; in the House of Lords.' . The: House went into Committee and. adjourned until Monday. ;..

THE GOVERNMENT'S TACTICS. ' "NOT EXACTLY CROMWELLS."; (Reo. March 18, 9.45 p.m.) "V. London, March 18. Lord Curzon, speaking at the Junior Constitutional Club, referring to the elections and the Government , s position, said there could be no greater instance of sudden catastrophe or disintegration. Hβ remarked that: the Government's tactics were intended.to prolong their existence, postpone defeat, and embarrass, the finances. They wanted to • produce confusion, and put their enemies in a false position. The country expected ■ broadminded and dispassionate statesmanship, and did not expect the Government's policy to be actuated by a spirit of the political gambler. ' The country did not intend that the House of Lords should go. The Government were not exactly Cromwells, competent to destroy one of the two Houses. It would not - ( be by sham Robespierres that any great revolution could be carried. , The House of Lords should be reformed on broad and generous lines. He hoped the approaching elections would return a party strong enough to carry such reforms of the Constitution as required to pass sound measures of fiscal and social reform.

THE MINISTERIAL PLAN.. SEVENTY-FIVE CONSTITUENCIES. (Rec. March 18, 10.20 p.m.) London, Maroh 18. The "Times" states that the Governinonfs present plan for electing, a Second Chamber is to subdivide Great Britain and Ireland in seventy-five enormous constituencies, each returning two members, the senior for eight years, and the junior for four years. The members elected to replace the latter would eerve for the remaining four years of the term of office of the -senior members. ; THE NATIONALISTS. A STEAIGHT FIGHT, NOT A FABIAN POLICY. (Eec. March 18, 10.20 pjn.) London, March 18. * Mr.' Redmond, speaking at an Irish banqnet in London, said the Nationalists were anxious to prevent the failure of the veto campaign, but did not intend to participate in a sham battle. They demanded a straight fight, not a Fabian policy. Come weal or woe they would stand by their pledges. He did not know whether they would succeed or whother the Irish cause would have once more to wait. Mr. T. P. O'Connor, in a speech at Liverpool, said that in a fight with ■ the Lords the Budget was a Weapon wfllch ought fearlessly to be used. Mr. Herbert Samuel, speaking, at Basingstoke, stated that the hereditary prinjstgle must on. ~

SIR E. GREY'S VIEWS CRITICISED. . DISTASTEFUL TO. LABOUR. "NONCONFOEMIST ENTHUSIASM NEARLY WORN OUT." London, March 17. Dissatisfaction regarding the .recent speech by Sir Edward Grey (Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs) is increasing. Liberals complain that he has dispelled hopes for adjustments of difficulties with the Nationalists. Sir E. Grey's declaration that tho Government intends to proceed with the reform of the House of Lords has proved extremely distasteful to the Labour party.

The "Standard" states that Sir Edward Grey, Mr. Haldane (Secretary of State for War), Mr. MTCenna. (First' Lord of the Admiralty), the. Earl 'of Crewe (Secretary of State for the Colonies), and .Lord Wolverhampton (Lord President of the Council), insist on combining reform of the Lords with limitation of the Veto. . .. . •

The "British Weokly" complains that the Government intends to spring .upon the nation a scheme for reforming the Lords and introducing the Budget. They will do this with the certainty of defeat. The Government, adds the paper, is apparently 'determined not to approach the King. The Nonconformists' enthusiasm for the Government is nearly worn out.

: "".,' London, March 17. Mr. Redmond, in his Newcastle speech, complained , of the .rotten policy of the Government. Hβ declared that Sir Edward Grey's speech on Monday showed that the Government proposed to relax its grip upon the Budget before the question of the Lords' veto was settled.. [In. a 6peech at a Liberal banquet, Sir Edward said: "If reform of the House of. Lords' is left to the other side, the Liberals will be courting disaster, death, and damnation. 'The'solution will be an elective Chamber, elected not necessarily simultaneously with the House of Commons, and not "on the same area."] , ■ , LORD CURZON'S METHODS OF ELECTION. . ' London, March; 17. The newspapers understand that Lord Curzon's proposals will be— :'. (1) The nomination ■of an undisclosed . number of' peers by the Government of the day.' (2) The election of English peers on the same principle as governs the flection of Irish and Scottish.peers: (3) County councils and great corporations to be formed into electoral colleges for the selection of eighty-four representatives for the Upper House.

A TRUE COUNCIL.OF THE NATION. Lord Courtney's remarks in the.above cablegram in reference to the House of Commoss not being a, "true council of the nation" are amplified in an.article in the February number of the "Contemporary Review," in which he states:— "If the power of the Lords has increased in recent years, as we.must confess it has, the increase has been largely due to a general suspicion that the House of Commons cannot always be accepted on trust as the exponent of the national will. At the outset of the general election a manifesto was put forth, backed by a singular combination of signatures, containing the following sentences:—'Make the House of Commons an exact image of the nation, and thongh it may not even then be at all times.; a perfect guide, it will gain enormously in authority. If all opinions ■■ of importance find an expression in the House of Commons corresponding to the : degree in which they are held in the country, ~-the .will of the nation will be expressed by the will of the parliamentary majority, while. the views: of. the minority:i will be heard in ' proportion to : their strength.' If the ■inherent authority of the House of Commons is increased by making.it the assured embodiment of the national will, the inherent authority of the Lords may simultaneously be improved, without taking away from the predominance that must be ■ allowed to the representative House; The statutory' mode of enforcing this predominance might follow the lines of the-resolution-of Sir H. CampbellBannerman, or might take some other shape. I should myself be prepared to accept Sir Harry's scheme,:but I confess to an opinion' 1 have- already intimated that, with -an improvement of the char- ' acter in each House espeoially in the elected Chamber, the practical difficulty of co-ordinating their . powers would disappear." .

An interesting article, giving the history of various proposals put forward during the forty years for reforming the House of Lords will be found on page 10 of,this issue. ~,....