THE HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 687, 11 December 1909, Page 6

THE HOUSE.

.' VyTHE/PEFENCE BILL ; \ Ji ! ;.- ; " Vskimmed; through =by;cowmittee!;.; » ■When the House met'yesterday, the Defeno* ' . Bill was reported- by. \ the Special. Committe*// to which..'it -was referred..'-,..., ■'•■■-' '.'■-•. i"Mr./FISHER (Wellington,' Central), said -.;he. - ■yrishod-.to draw attention .to' the inadequate consideration the Bill: had from tho -■', Committee. 'The first : meeting of the Defence :; 'Committee was called' on Thursday morning, -: and-it was -understood', that' the',only business .-■-, woild- be the election- of .a chairman:: Instead •'■ ,of /jthat,'- the : Cominittee 'had- to'gb :into' the ■■■" whde- of "the Bill,'and: nocossarily jt' could ' only.'-.do so, in,'.a very- inadequate .wa'y..'VTh# . Corimittoe sat again on 'Friday monung'frem. 9.301 till .10.30, and resumed' at' 11.30, when.■•■'■ members.; had other Committee engagementsi for final consideration of the measure;/' Tie consideration of. the- Bill 'by the Committe* •';, had'been'so utterly, inadequatothat' the 'House . should ;attach very' littls 'importance/ to' -it • -The case was another (illustration that ness/.dpne in, a .hurry mnst be dono'badly. There was.no time. to. ask*anyone.for any, in-,;, formation, and . the Commits examined-"no ■'-- ,witnesses.', One,or,two very-brief reports: wero [-received from .membors/of.-'tho Defence ,Coin- : ' mittee. He' disclaimed ■ any responsibility,' for the'; Committee's report 1 on,' the ■. Bill-in '•' such circumstances. ; Many "of. tlie proposals :■ in thaBill. were'still'absolutely'unknown' to: -i'the'V,: Committee, and what had taken: place wis no-'' thing more nor less' than a farce, and .showed : : that the driving business "which. l occurrediat.\ the end of; the session,was-worse ,than ..useless.' j

' . ; :;--^V- • .T Mr. MASSE Y.!eaid' he was 'very glad that' Mr. : ''■':■; Fisher bad made his, statement.. This wap: pro-:' bably the most,important. Bill. of- the "session; ' : providing; fo>; a": complete'ohange. in' the •• fence system. It: contained 103 clauses',! arid; •'"' it had,been rushed through the CommitteVin'two forenoons; 'He.was ill'favour of the.Bill, but he objected to' the scandalous/ way' iin. which; it had been dealt with; The,. Bill ■ should'have been' introduced'months ago,'' aid' a special committee should'.have' had.;the.'-op-.- '"■' portunity;-of'examining it and calling .expert'' witnesses. --•' : '■':.■.: <■'■■ ■.■■.••;■■- ■■■-■■■?...■:-'-/"..--i". : '.v. ■ ;. Mr. JAMES ALLEN- (Bruce); condemned th«' in'which the Committeel'had had ■ : to'-.do p ;its work. ■':"■■; .-" : ■'-.-.. ■'.'■■.;)«'■*"»■?'■:- Prime,; Minister's Rtyly. ■ ••.■>.• o ■•'.;: 'Z-C •'•-. •when this .Committee: .was elected '.:agaia ,cai» : '''.' Should ;be 'takc'nv.asUo,'whb':,.was. i at f I Mem befs-should:nottfgrce.: to.':' sit?, on'.'.the ,Coiri-, ;V mittee\if they •.were;ttnable'to'attend, tho}moet-: ■■ ihgs.'."(Mr.;; Allen: -Tliat's-nof. fair.) -'Then.;.., .were ..thirty-four', i. new,' in- the. 8i11,,.?. which had..btsea,"submitted .to ; '.the Committed,,-- : only as a niatter/of convenience.. Any man: of '■' -.-. , ordinary intelligence. could - understand-.;, the i■ ■ Bill easily in half an how When-the Bill' was in; Committee: in'.the House: he 1 Vould - be-glad-to explain the new clauses.. :"' ■' '-i '-'; -Mr.:' : M'LAREN. (Wellington 'East),-protested'^ ithat; ,the.Bill;should ,not be hurried through." '■ Time should;be' given, for the • publio to mak* '■'; representations';■'■■ ; '''- "■•'■'■'■■ ,-,.■'. '-.v '■ ■ " ; Mr. : HERRIES-:(Ta'n>"anga) f 's'a'id that -the Bill : •'•'<> would i pr'(SbahlyPbe'-'put , " , .thi-ough^alli ; its stage*-"' next Monday.'•->''',':;..''.' L... - ; ■;■■■ -v;..-;. s<;.-'-" :. :Mr.-.;M'Laren: -Then it's -'grossly' nhfain-'"'' ■"• ■ ■"' ; ;Mr/' Herries:.That is what .always" happen*". "■ at the-'end- of "the-session. - Itiwa's- impbssibls -- for.iany Committee' adequatelyUo'-consider an ;i: - important-Bin of .103' clauses in'three or: four -' hoursi He believed that the'.Committee's ire-V port.was absolutely useless.- ''■•' '■.'■,'"•' ; , -■'. Sir WILLIAM. STEWARD, ohairrtan'of the ' Committee, said no attemptwas made. to":stifle v ' .discussion' in the Committee,- and ho request - was..made- for further ,'time.- x There was a - .general desire -on. the •'• part' of-the House that'' : the Bill should be passed, ;and, numerous peti-' ' tions: in; favour''of , its -main provisions had ■ been received from the country.. The.Commit--tee reflected thatjeeling.: Ho-moved that tha'V- '■■ report'.lie. on the table;-'^'.-; .'-. ...:■:•-'A,;-.'-':' ;.TheV.ia6tion:;was.'adapted.' ■•';■■ -'.;;-'!''■'; '-.:■

; "%iORJ<I'NG; RAILWAYS: bEPARTMENT.vi' ; V Consideration' of the Estimates •: was ; resumed ■*' : frot4:last Friday. The working Railways. Do. ' parißient-wfts first-taken. -. ..v ;'.','',.. .;■ ~;.,''":. Mr.'. MASSEY ; ,askcd if; any other opportuhitr'' would:be given: t6. discuss-the ■ Comnussionere"', '■"■ report.on the' Addington Workshops.' ■ ■-,-' KM*.. T; >E; TAYLOR : (Christchurch ■ North) & saidj.Mr. Hall-Jones,';had' promised that men-■ ; .whojhad' be'en:casual;hands for,five-years\»ad•'.''■'■ moro.-would'be:placed -on the permanent>lißt ? '■ if.they:passod v the medical ; test,,bnt'this had'; not been;donii. He .wished/to know also;if the v, Department, was going torecognise'the.Ehgme-' Drivers', and. Firemen's Union. •-i >;■ ■;'■■•■ '. Mr, DAVET (Christohuroh East) urged that'« • opportunity;-should' be given todiscuss.,the.; Aadiiigton report;' .v: ..-'. . :• ',• \„'. . -.'. The Addington-Report, - ,; :,'•'-: .a;', >The Hon.,J,, A. MILLAR, .replying tb v Mr. ;: ; Massey's.:question, 'said that there, was' an' ,; ' itein;,on tho-Supplementary -for thi-' payment , ; :bf ...the-,. Addington, Commission'erß>"v'(Laughter.) -';s; .v;;-. 1 -:-; - .>. ;•■;- ;.., .;-.-,■.•.■■••../.'■■■*; .;-: -A- member:,, They' will!-come'down "on' 'one*..'.'-. of the last days;;of'the.season.'-'. :"..'.:,':;'. :, Another member: At 5 a.m. ; ,' .',-'■>: -.' i l •'■';

Mr. Millar said.he'had no objection to'-thV-report being .'discussed;, but' he' did not know :■'- if : the Prime. Minister.could 'set. aside a time." As regards the casual'hands, there had been a sort ,Sf .promise,i but- already the' Department.'wi;s dismissing men,, and;if it installed :* now. labour-saving' machinery as recommended '■' . by -the Addington' report if would probably 'bo : dismissing Viuorel, It" these;' men' were' mado'' permanent-'it'.would ;be "necessary to-'let.'so "'; .many men. stand, down:, every., week. '■ -They. 1; had; not 'got .the ■ work for; the .men to;'tip. V'v.:' Railwaymeri and the Arbitration' Court; ' - ' ■'.'

; ,Mv.:BAUME,(Auckland East)'moved.the'rfr .p taction.,of the; first item' .(General 1 Manager's,-;'.': r : salary. .£1250) bj',<£l" as. an,indication that In'' -: ■'•"■' the-; opinion of tho House , railway employees .■: "should-lie",placed I .lilider'the/'jurisdiction of the\> ; Arbitration; .Court. It. ; w'as; desirable that thai ;:-:-' < : ',■ rates of pay"', and; hours' of .work ■'; should.be:;fixed.'by an'; outside tribunal, laiid,;--'. ■'■): ■ should. not ' affected by. political I interests. I '.'. V.- ' |>';.Mjr: : OVIT , rY/.(Ricc«rton)-BMd'''tlie''';sort...of;'-.i'..'-.' ..promise", wade by .Mr:. Hall-Jones in- regard 'to .;-'■ .: casual' workers was a ; very definite',proinise, ,; v . inade ,in the. presolice: of Messrs. Ell,. Dav6y, : .'■>' '.': and. himself.:.' The men. had, been -.led ,• very.;! jf ■;< much;.astray. Some of thorn had to go. to tho ].;-\'f trouble.of passing the doctor and'getting'certi-' : / : ficates, and the ■: promise should: bo; kept.'; Tho',' :/,■' Houso should also bo : told who the individual-" was-.who first'complained-to.:the.General Man? ■ :;'•'{ ager in regard to the '"Addih'gton workshops." . • ,Mr. ELL-(Christchurch Sonth) : ,th6ught that? .;'" the men; in. the. shops-and traffic-department ■'*■"'«■. should . He -consulted as to 1 whether, they" de-<\.', sired \to' come under the-. Arbitration, Court, ''..'>'■''' Only a section of them, had been consulted .', before. ,'• •'-.■:'•;■ V- \ "'■"'; .'■■.",.;, ; .' -.;,,. . ■'■ '■ \■!'■■;•'•'■ Mr. LUKE warmly en- ' Ldorsed \the ~ suggestion .to bring railwaymen : . under the Arbitration .Court. A,dispute which l v [came before the-Arbitration '.Court; in corinec-'' v 'i Hon..with' the crtginopriugtraUoan. Wellington-': : ': : I had. boon:■ instigated..-from'..the. Petoho'-woVk- ; • .shops,"-.which; wore: not affected by.,tho award.--:,!" lie gave to .Mr/ Millar, .for. doing? as\ v. I much, -railway/.work,'aspossible,', in /New >Zea- "_-■■■• | laud...'; : '::.;'. ■'..'■':'"•; .■ >"..'""""-"--"?'"'"'' A"-":'"-" : '"'.\V'-"' : !-;-; ! ."--" > V''.'-' ; [ "Startling Conclusions." 1 ' .'■■■'■' -,-,;.;•; ;;t ; ' : '',' ; v'';'"■''/;• ,'-' Mr., HEIiJDMAN/^Wollingtoh:'North)?,spoko^': at some length on the,Addingtoh workshops re- v. ; port, which he said could 'not ho called'satis-' V factory. Ho- asked if any, steps 'had been taken • '.',' to adopt any,,of tko.snggestions.of,the;Commisv' : ' sionors.:'lho,Commissioners\reportcd > that -the" :>. :>' method of manufacture at Aduhigtoti'was not 1 ''* by ,'any, means..satisfactory,-. ahcV that .loconio.'!-. • ''•■■ tives could be-constructed:much nioro cndftplVfiv" .ill-private.shops..:.,;lle.thonght' the':'' principal'■•''?fault, in ''tho'vadministration: of the'aailwayf j : ■ Was, not So in uch; ota' t)io' re'vemib' side "lis' An ■ tni '■'('■■>■'•■■ -JTlio:GoinMiissi'onor6/roport«>, ; ; : - that-the >ork,'at;Addingl;bn .wai^o^'doiiO'.et'. I '''■■■'<'

;': : W^Pj|i|t!o>isiy/; as v it /^should; ;.':V ::?b'.,f.dditipnal appliahcosjtvdrone'oded-'fermttnn:': "■'■v.'i at 'wlng,^a'nd: ;^ '■■ and ,-V/'^'/^J'ftht-ibe:inferreilVthat: .-//istM™at^the/othor/railway::workshopsV-"lt's'ug-:whblo^^■•of." this 'enormoiis ;, > ;aaMti|hould ;bq filaccd under theoohlrolof an; ;'■ that/of/ Naw.jSputh -H.::II/:Jacksch- at. :-v.',,thO:Mhqniry;.'ie'.vtho'; effectithiit/ebhsiderablo ■: -A'wrk-iwas >dohp- at yA'd(|ihgtnh ;nh the'cOnfract /V'.vengihejVaiid.'that,apart/from', that tho difference: -V/in,:»ri<!e !wag7prily.'£Bi: : ; :Tho Cchimissibhers'-rp-' /'-pprh. .Mr.;;Davey,stated,.:washardly/.in accerd.vanco/with.the/oipertcyidence//' /:,'"; "'•■'■'■■.,. ; v/^/A".;'-!^? n mari>/Risc.'C::-:' :./;:v:v:;v ; / /: ! ;--:-' ;/"-'^r}/gi>i3Aßci/vP 7 afea)-'said^that^ .-'■ .: : toblet-mcn's: I wages'::'wdrP'.ihcrehsed'is. v *'a;.weok ,:,:,;thdy 'hbusdVfeht; ,the; effect v';being/a';net;'loss:bf;7s.Vbr/Bs.' ■■J. ; /.VMrj; /MASSEX vivfiot sed /this:/ cdmplainfc/^Hp : .:, .•:: asked «for -.■ an '.assurance; that ian opportunity ■///woiildiibegiven/tb^discuss'tha-Addingtpn/Te-: ■■:'■.■ pdrt"' befpre ..thdSsessiph .ended; .v-He'-'-intended- • !..''to.support amendment. '.--Tho rnil;:■■,'way; mdli.had noyerhad ; a 'proper opportunity ;/- - ofv,saying :whether.-they,; desired: to.,como. undor //.'tho .'Arbitration"Court-or-not. /It^was/, almost f:v/.:iin"ore' ; Umpbrbint'^that ; //.; -Should vpbmoV under "tho :.C6urt':^thanprivate;: em-i-rVployecs/.'sO .as/to-stOp/the ..wretched:, political -■vVf.'interfcrenca'that;was;always going dn.fHd be- /: "llevfld that large importations were/beingmado ; ■: '•'," of: castings 'f or -the- ihter'-lpcking .machinery.- If V;.: these castings 'could bo manufactured h(jr?j in -~'; private: or Government it should bo '•: ;/,done , :'-V'/>/7/:/'. { :"'X'■:/';.''--: ■\^.iik?---''i----.'^ : '' , -V-..vMr.;Lnke:,:Private.shops are/nparly..shutting.. ;;' -'übVftbwV, : ;^:'i:->;:';./-:;:/://\'' :^ J / ; :/; ': ; :/^^Massey:: : l;am'sbiTy : ,to;hcar;it;v /',./.:./

'; Statjment' by -MiK 1 MII laW// •:. h f l ." ■; 'the irkilwaymdn/another.;.opportunity -to.;,say ' wheth'er/theyiwpuld'como under the.;Arbitra- ." btitvif .'they did :they:,would ■ hayo - tp/accept :'the- s'amd iconditions asi.PthetL.wprt-. , : :'ers;,,'lt :wbuld:ribt'; apply...to 'dne- diyisipn,, but; :-t6/all:Uhe : "wbrkshdps- hands;-;/Flange, ; boiler, ;;platbs!*'had: -beeii:.irtpotted/fpr;: years.;-rhere. ; had'.pnly beenvdrid' special/.impprtatiQn/ofrosle : ■ I bdxo3. and' springs,iiand:that • was .when it: «'as ;get sOme""dhgines' put.in a/huriy-. ," Since'April-1; the'Department-had-turned/Out --13:46oohiotives, -.21 -cars.-.'.1l ..brake, .vans,., 10. ■•■ hogtiy,i;.wagons,;and:':4ll.-four-wheeled 'wagons, '■ These/were^now-;oh-;.tho;.road./-Thd,work 1 ,in . >/hahd'Ji'Cohiprised v :"33'aocomotives,/.62,.car5,;:23 1 . :,bra]de», vans,;67 /bogdy,-, wagons,;- and -1288.' f Pur-■-''^^wheele'dl-wagons.-'■lt--was^-'.hoped:to ;put,ph-the. • -roatV-before,'Ma'rSi 31/13.locomotives, 6:: cars, ; •:6rbraKe.'vans,'SSlbogey/SvagOns, .and, 296.f0ur-; - /wheeled: wagons^ •j'ohs-forvthe^yeari 1 ?:-'/'.',:' : .-;.://;v^'--" ; :vr; '■.'-. %i.' Witty: iTdit'U ','-•//'. - ■ ■';• V.MK -'MillarY.r.aamit.-thatii.bnt,-we;; .hayo'only .' 'gor ; '. : a:-limitdd/ahiount;;of jnioney-, to',wprfc/on.'. :,; Thd; was',, only i going/.t'o/kst ;,a,: certain ■';, .tittipi/'andr.the'n/'ttie, 'meh;:,'.wpuld/havo,:.to/gd off ;';;wH6l^lp^/';^/'^^ : ::.;/;. v /;Pr^sea,i;lifl^'Wol/Pracli«b^ '■ v- As/regards' the'v.casual: rwirkersjiiMr. 1 :-HallV JorieSt-liad/iuadeia'distinct: 'promise, /but,; oil; 'investigation:.he/found:.that/the/rtattelv was -not/'praoticablei'-and''.".instructed, ■the-officials ; ;: nOt(:tp/'carry ,it/out.:-'lf;;nU:;tho' casual linen, of ; ■ ■ service '-'Were'."admitted, -: it .would. / ; ' .regard vtojthp.-'additiPiiiil-,'report,';the namei.of, . hi'ade complaint, was ';;the/Hoii;,Mr.',Jehkinsdn. r/ : -./;^-C;.i ; ; >:.'*r: -'■)' '-'• ?:'/v:Mrt:')Vitty::>Wo: knew:Jt,long .ago. / •K/; f :..v,.'V ' .'/. In' ; *.thd• dourso!,/of..- a/'/priva.te ■,cohversa.tion, '•■'. contirtUedr. the:i : .;''Minister,--:: heY/toldZ/the: . Manager.'-.' '■: that/-tho ■■;■ ! wort- -/was; , ;:-• not/ going/On satisfactorily;.-. 'Hp • thaught that :': 6n ;the/.wliPld': thd'VCpmmissipn-had-'ddnaVgObd.. ' Thb'Jißh'pps'.were/built. fprv.;Tepair'. : :shehs;.-;arid.--;:the;i»i6minissioners">aja. that'.unle'ss:': they/got: ;.neiv,Kiih6ps-they'v would: not/bo 'able /tp.ihaiiu-/,faetarof',td;;the;-best'f:advahtage//.Tho:;busiftess ; , of '-thb'N.ow''Zealand'railways would' hot; justify : -an rexpeftditure/of -1-£150,000, dhVnew/shbps./rhe 'Vgreatiidemahd-'for -ydarS-had: been ?:iuorpased -'railwia.y/stook:'-:The General Manager-had fre- .'.' quehfly/V'doinahded/imp'rdvcmehts/in-.thd; iria- .: chih'ery-.ldf. .ihonby/hadVgone ;:: in jrollingrstoofc/and; =plaritr sSohie/ : :df v the.-. old /-machiiibry/:Was/dping iyery'^ddl/work.//// 7 :/ ' V:;;Aiterht|pris./af /Addingtbn;///i :g f-./Siithad':'^ ■-.-'ittOiiiejrMo'- carry-out: a- lot: bt 'tho: recemiuenda- /. tid^s'made' by-Hhd: ,Gommissidners. ■: ;:A, silctipn ; ' gas-plant ;hadtbceh/alroady:shipne(i;./which ;/'wdiild. ; ap'■away;';;SithV.-:thb"'Steam\'bbile'rsv.;;" , rhe. :\i r sugg&tiphV made Vby'thd :Gdmmissiohdrs' ; ;ih' ; :,rd- : . ;/gdrfctb/dlectjic" ''.Vra6toi'thaii i; .the':.plttn-wKfch!-thevGove.rnmont/in/ . '/'teriabtljfo'pursud.v.The.VGovernment.was,going : Ktb rafra'iige; .with: ;thb. 'Ppuncil/tb/supply; ; ;;-::onlv,:atj.|;hesp''rjm'e§:J:; Provision /rjras/alsb/being machines,; and .the shop ' '■', would Jalsbibd/rerarrahgetl-as; far as I .',possible; '.:,Iri'.'jiV'sbbrt::;time":":they,-'would'':find':/tn V;'6n\e'iiils-'would;'-'he -iablehto/iturhibut ;wOrk, ?; morp vs'itisfactdrily.:::vAs':rregards; i the; •, engines V, m'ftdb'.byj-Messrs: iricd.Bros.,';;thd ; .Governmdht. )ji'inaae;thV'planKarid.'did-^U : ithe.ihbaTier'.>work.'' :/vCredit:sfibuld! be':'giveh : to;thd'Bopartindht' for:' /:haviii^-'Buffidieht-/sta£f r !>'at /'with^abhbrriial/rebairs.'-:,-With'^ -'respect .to/:tho': /"heav#, : expenditu.re.;ori the railways;..high/wages ? : .j;andvflbal ; .troublds:had:;tb . DfepartiSeht vhtid always /kept 15: weeks' -sup: /.-ply :,Ih.*gtbck"' for:-^hdiwhble/'of, the Railways' of ;-:.;the i'ppmihipn;';;/;He',';linpfd/ tp;.<brihg ■' -'•;Son(b.Sof.f,the; : ;:/Cbmmissibherstw'erel:being'/put/vin-'tfain/by -the/inquiry,'was. i'-j ;made:''' r .Ho.:'thoughtVthat/thd ropprt/had/done 1 ' ./- ?Oo"d;vth6ugfi-tho- commlssipners :w6ro .too :much- ;;- tnol.iiie ; d?:te;:lobk/at.' :'-: vate'employef/s-idea/d 9 : !<:wai not: sb-'mubh/ tb j. ■;>..:ddw riftth'b'costs "to^^-'a/'reiisdnableVameurit.'' ! <The" ; ' :/i]uality; Jdfithbjwbrk .':turhed'l qirt/by: thd ;shops; /:'/wdtild;iCbmpard,'rwith/that;bf any/railway :sys- /;; | :dm I HPsthb,' i wd'rld. : ';.:As!regards: the' tablet-men, ; v'thci#wa^esv;:*erdr;ihcroased, : :arid:.ff()Q ! :.hons'e's' ;//withdi'a'v;n";sb;;:. : that ■/.the/full.vpay././ihcludinß '..i; thd;':Pc|ui.valeht;;of, the' free' houses: should-count Z^'fp^supmanhOa^phr;;;:;/;^ //cahfe';Under/thb/Arbitratibh"';Court;;V a hd/werc; ;;.v.; tb-'get.Jthe/samb'fwages jahd- hdurs'.as,"outside /';':'\vcjfjiers,'.;.theyi.-c6uld jnot-'i'expect-tb'vget': the .// Bamo.:;privildges i asXthcy;? liad. nPiv'./ -The ■:■' but- ; ';-:•■■ Bidd,;wofkers would not'stahd- ; it: ' : ': "v" -': '';'// J fe ; {; :■;;-; should; .6onsider..wnetherMt.wbulbViiibt- beVpos-;-;::f}bl6: J i t t- do .'''tt w ./;:thoidißtinction;,be.twconvporui'aneht'a'ftd casual' :]iad-''been-'done!'-'to'. r; i: /ohcoilragd!rinvpntiveuess';Vm ' urged: the;'cbnstruc- ■■'"- TO. , TO'?^' ; , rall W'''wbrkshops-'Vnear'vthe VWaii ,',, taki^ -aai'/net." parochial,: in '.- -.'By.,;iaoas,.. pretested:Mr;':Craigio: : ./'The.'nia-' /•:./;hinbry7of;:thP.:;U(!w.vslipp3 .should "bd- wbrked' ':/'?}-' oleptricity.dbtainQd'irom-:tho -water:-power: :-'!-V'/:-:'•---;■;::.?/: --:■:,'j. : '---'■■-'■:.'■ -.- r \ -, ::.V:^Mri^UppNAN^(Wairarap^)./urged;-that : tho/Wairarapa. timc-tabla ,the ;;;:::Uciiar.tm.oht,'.sheuld.:.'h'avd'cpusidored'-what : ';//'«quifon]onts-pf;,school/'children!'wore. ; No're-- -',;,. questfhlid/bcPurniddc tbithd■.Wdlliugtpn Edu--.;:for,,iaforradtioh : 'bn;'this'-hcad. '•'.: S hp.-'Postal'Department;: should -also :ha'vo ;.been ■v con>mM^.vEyery,;hiembef./ encourage .;-:Mr^:Mil!ar^t9/sed/that; : the ; rnilways:'paid,,but :-/;;in;rekaM, : ;;-:.the ( :AV ; airai'apa.:had''Uriduly;sullered- : Be£oi'e''tho '/ / diyers;ipn::bf /traffic vfroiii:; V lino - >,'it/ja!U:;handsbmely,/;Evcn'. i ndw- thdl'iira'.was :/ P^J', 1 * I ?^J"^* 3 ' V '*°Jl.>-s pi-ior :td the connection ,':'.':v.-yntU.!woo'dyiUe;.?:--Hc-.*duia/snßgt*tvtb.M'r.---MiU' ■/•/ lar-tliat.hp should Wiifdh,'thC traffic on'tlio" Ufiti' ~ .; cloieifrf. and/if--he/fouhd/that too much had ■•;•■ ;beeH'yldne■.in'tho.-way of reduction lie".should .possible remsfafe t.v.o or-three'of ;: ■% ths/trains;/;lt was; tb/bo'; hoped' that. a';con:'"vfiiddrSble -portidii-ot/tlie/mbhey --that,' was /-lie-" "--; ! n gfset.;iipart -fur-addifibna to foiling stock would-,/::-beJiUMd!td/scdurd';inipfovemehts':to 'trucks at ::,/presehtMh.uiie.//Wiihv«gard:to;thd/construc- ,..-:■•.: IoU-bf:n«w.lbcom6trtt!9;he:]M';sve(l,that:excel- -/,; ktit;Bnginds/cbula..bd.'prceufeu-putsidd.tho-Dp- ,, manufaatured -;.wthln'';this:cpuntry.Vcdst,J/-;-'-.'::,:- ." ..",':.:,

■7 hopcu^'the ; -timb; '"•;-', :; ..*bn!d:-.&iue.:.svhen/i:the;-.-Mlhistc'r'-'fbf Railways ■'■■ ■ 'woUllli;get':(iuit.e -clear-rdf ''his-responsible; olfi--7 cori''.;:::Hc.::-thoiight:; ; that.:t'iie -Minister should ..: hivc/iiihde'as iiiaily.;c,asuals ; periiianeut- aspos,7; sibloi'Xlt wasiliis'ijpiuion'.thai'a'liinin erecting shopi'should -be: established ,in. either island. •'. ■ He;-;*as, stuprlsciLi at Hhe, .way; in ;which the ■■•.-.••.'. pesitiiiii'iisijto."whether:'the .'iiien, should, .come 7v Mrbitratioii7Act7:had. been .placed •'-.:.'7 beforb'.,the omplbyoeijibf. 'oiib-.Khnp.;. The clauses ?'■'..7showiilg the disabilities: were' brought protuin-,-7', eritly."''u'ntlqivrthbi^rVii'Jtite^vwitilat. they were 77' lcft.;tb -nitd' Out> ! the J ;adv'(i'ntngos lor themselves.

Otti6j^CSpaec!t6s..,7-C^iC^7.^;■'- ,':. v:!; -7" : 7 ' : ill-eifecC-iliilih^schools: in;'tho- Wellington : dis-.trict^ofvithe.^recoiitijichiuiges'iin-."the- railwny tinic'jtttblos.uJt.hi'asi.hliCoblliio'n that the-altera.. boen-to6;stld-.■deiii^b(t-i^v«c^K'KeMi|i.Mili(-'iof-,El:etaliuiia,-;,for' .instAMce,-!(!oiildfiiot!'roply , iitiV6iie. day tda.lottev. >ecel§il.^iriiiii^:W(illiiiKton,; ! ulthoii|jh: the tfis:tanta>. iv'a<tjiiit.7loo ilijsii. -77 "■'. .■•. ': ••■'• ■'■."■•.■:. v^Mr^vttTilGOT^Wallliigtdii' South). drew at'teiitlbn ; tb. the, fact7thut,: ; ■ lliu ■';, iron-working

iiidchihists/'atVtho ;Pctono'-,W6rksh6js did not roceivo .as ■! high pay .as workers {similarly.dmployed/Outside.': They should:bo. placed on the. samp ';footing i'- as ■'wood-wprkihg: : ■ machinists. Then,; again, the locomotive .drivers/ arid firemen in" the ' Department had ".-"a ■: grievance;, Under th'cv previous; Classification 'Act, ■■ thorq were to .ho ',50 first grade, and 50 second; grade drivers, aiid 60 first grndo, and 50 second grado •.firemen.:--.; Tho /present Act, however, stated that there .werp to ho no niorb. than .50 per Corit of bach grade.' Attention was also.directed by Mr; AVright to a grievance with inference to holidays.: Ho went on to point out that as a result, 'pfVtho, cost of carriage oh .sugar having: .been, .raised on - the Manawatu lino, 'a; great'Vdeal 'of that commodity ;>.was now being sent by water. It was reported that sincp the Government took "over tho line tho number/of; employees on it had'been greatly increased./ ' '/. Feilding a Flag Station, • '■'."Mr.' BUICK (Palnierston.North)' referred,to tho 'fact that Feilding -was' only a flag station in corinectien with the second express service. This was on/ insult to. that' centre,,which" w;as ono of growing importance.. Ho asked the Minister to.havo a-return prepared as" tp, the business at Feilding: under tho -previous express service./-''lt' Was/trusted that:FeiHing would bo placed position which it, ought to cccupy.,::-//-./ ~.:•-/■';/;,;/ : : .:.",-' ■,-,.'..• NawWeiiinDtpn Railway Station. /;:: : Mr. ! 'HERI)MAN. (Wellington)"asked .if ■ tho Minister .could give soma definite information with regard'to the. policy of: the Goverritnciit in connection with.the erection of a hew railway station■: In reply.to a recent question, vMrV Millar had stated that a survey hadbeeri mado,. but the exact locality of the new 'buildings'' had.'not been"'; determined.'. It was of .great importance that tho: information ■ should-bo-made public as .early as. possible. : Mr.' ARNOLD (Dunedin Central) said that Dunedin-had:a fine.station, and;he 'trusted justice in' that regard: would be done to-the other'important centres. Hallway, employees should bft consulted: as .to whether they would come under the' Arbitration. Act. ••/,. Mr. NEWMAN:-(Manawatu) endorsed claim Of Feilding to: be mado a stopping place in- connection with'-tho 'second, express service, Teildirig, was one of thd most -progressive.towns in it was'the .cenfre,-of. an enormdus area of rich settled country. Further, Feilding.waS thd distributing centre of a large; mail services./. ■. •'-• -■ •••■ •- - "'■-.

■ Position of /Casuals.;,/ '■/'//' •'!://■ • : ' Mr. ■ TATLOIt;■ (Christchurch : North) asked ,how many casuals-had been; the victims pf tho inability;-of: the ;Depaitment'.to:carry out-Mr. 'Hall-JonbsVpledge."./ /:■ X-';!■:/,:' ::: ■.■.'■'■ "Mr.; Millar; 1 There were 350 at the time. . .Mr/Taylor- .How many now?. V;; , ■•; ..Mr: iMillar:;:Under tho,retrenchment schemo 250 have gone, leaving 100.to-day■;.';/ ~' - ■ Mr;Taylor"-wdht oh to soy that ilia remnant were .'entitled': tb; go : te the, Minister, him' tp fiillil-'thd promise/niadd 'oil:behalf of. the country^:Tt was. a glaring■ that thdVwhole of:the employees of thejWollingtpnMhna'Watit; lihd; had been taken; intp/thp mr-. uianent service 1 Of,:tho Department, under, the circumstances: :.Ho wculd 'romind'.the .Minister, that it was"currently bclioved-in -the.:Addiiigtpn district/that, the Government intended tb go'in:for-a great, deal more contracting. . ■', Mr. Millar: That:is hot so. : ,'■■;/';: / ... Mr." GtfTHßlE.'(Oroua); regretted: that. Feild-. ing liad/been: overldpltod in connection, with tholsecbnd^e'xpress,service./;Pdilding.:w ; as one of the : mbst-iinportaiit'tpwns in thb,Dominion, and was'.bo'u'nd'.ib continue to fprgo.ahead:/Its 'mail I ,'service was , vdry.'important. .Ho honed that.justice;.would'yet be., done toiFeildihg in that regard../ I "Another, request. which ,'hfl ,would like to' bring forward was. that Feilding should he made, thd .terminus, for thd evening train.from Wdllington> './:.// : f

'FurtherSßbmarks^ ''■The. MiNiSTEE.'ih the .course of his .reply, said ';that last/time;/ v a ''yoto . was takeri'/as. to,/'whether, .the'. railway/men should' come j/iiiider. tho.•'.'.Arbitration Act, .72 ,:vbtod--( : ;in/ '• -favour./ of ,- tho - proposal and 151)0 against,it. :Ho.would no', bring, the men under, thb.Aot.unle'ss,tho:nieh ! .ddsired.it or: 'the'.'.HousS; ordered it.' It : was.'his'epinibh'.th'at. ■ the; menV were : better.'■: pit. ,a"s 'they j|.were, a t-' preseh't: ./The 'taxpayers' -would'. iwt r hg'r'ee. • to-' pay the ;'men : , thb rates/stipulated "under/the "Act unless' the men .were' 1 brought "under; the/Other conditions stipulated .in/rhb/Aot./; The.' Dep'ar'tm'ehtr'Had /always . given' - a /bonus ' in. return Vfpr. any .original. :SUgeesti6n that would ;tend;Vtb: 'cheapen. n the' .cost.- of /prbductltiii; :■£ It; %&s-'.not wag'-': -onsj ; because .wagpns-'nith.harclwdbd sidps;,wcre .lng.euectea.ou. the /VYairarapalines: wpuld be thdyV had 'enly, taken <pff. 323 iVhiiles. bf V' daily.' '..running./.:' The , trainV seryicb: could '.tot, bp, altered to ■ init ,a small ■" nurii.W.'.df /ichpdi/childrcn; or' to' cphyenierico' thre9 or./four .business ;hi«n;i with iregard, tb their mails.',;/.:.(:-;/;/;/; / ~;.-■;' .'■' ■ ',:- : -:.:-:': ■;■..';;■"•''

Statement by/Mr/.'Massoy. ;, ;V,- ; ; '^Mri-MASSEY:objected habit:,bfhbldiiig'.'cpmmittee/jmMtings.whilb -the'-'-HiiisS vivas-sitting, as ,the"result MX iwhichVMrV Gut))rio had/to,delegato/for -'several hours tho fejire;scntAtibn/bf his district .'in'/the. House.' 1 ' !• Ho had 'l'eceiyed'.'a letter, 'fr'eni; a/friend in ': the Wairarapd; .'who 'stated,that it -tabk.twb,'uays uhder/'tho hew, arrahsrehient .for• his letters;tb ieaoh : iWellii'igton.'. -,Engine-drivers //on. ; the. railways .were,, riot paid 1 so .highly .on the aver: ago,as. ;iiot. fair/to the,ineh'/ //'//;' V/:.'!;;.//;- ; / / Mr/Millari-I'ne:average raie Is:higher'.;/' ; ; 'niaxihvum vis'hdtisb ■high.'/'//:''';-,"■/;.:'//.,//■ ;V;/"/.-:,/ 1 /;.: -/,/,/-■ v ,Mr.-"Millar; Tott/aTe right there,:-;■ v/ ' '--' ,vMr.""Massey,:, : cphtinuing,/said- that t, castings: :ahd ather railway,:material should bo; niadd in NeivVZealand -wherever, it .was 'possible, even: if, thd. cost ''was ■' a; little m'orb.. /Thd .engines used, in .Marlborough: should' hayb/been placed ,-ori the/scrap' heap .years ago,-and the/carriages se'ehied,itoihtsVd..'cbifio' put/of;thd/Ark.',!;;•, /:,.:',:,-

Mr.-Millar,in:ReblyV;; -'/-'-v?///':: I '// :•;/''•/ Mr; MlLLAß'said: the Wairarapa.:trains had bden for:ydiU'S'one;bf tho'-bdstvpayiiig'lines,, but .that/wasi'becaiise 'of -the -timber ;trade; which.'had,;now fallen ; of[ in the .'Wairarapa, Irriprovepaerits/with regard toVtrucks..would be iriddd: aS; fast as possible. .He -' w ; as -not going to import; any-engines:--; The Addingtbn l ' Commis. sioners, ;had -'reported: that; they,. could not ti ■ iniperted v fer,:less:.:than'S:per ;cent. under the. charge l made'by:;Mcssr's;,'Pricd.and i Sons.-.'When that: was all .thd.difiei'ericb'in'.cpst, it .was bet-, fer tb-havo tha.work.dorie.in'. 1 Neiy,.Zealand.Nothing wbuld'-give him greaterVpleasurd than' to .-put- tho'loo casual l ' men: on the permanent staff, : 'if, he ariy.''prospect, of • keppirig them, pdrmanoritly'employed, afterwards. The exteh-. ! sion .of.:-the -train/to Eketahuna- would; require a very large expenditure, which ,wOuld ; not bd justified :by tho .traffic. ,Hd 'would ■ consider -the. pbsitipn.of thd;w'bdd 'rnachinists wlieri,:ariy're'classincatibn.ivasbeing made,. The Department did not raise the tariff on tub .-Manawatu line, bht'.siriiply gazetted' the ordinary rates' that wero'in fotco throughout New Zealand. 'The Manawatu Company had charged -.lower' rates in' .view of their-competition, with tho water carriage'■ -to/Foxton.' There were, .'notices; in every workshop: that, rewards would bogivon for' .invention's:'" The, mail train in thd'morning stopped .at, Feilding, and the second/express •was .',:Vbnly;-a/temporary, strain 1 ' to carry ;them ovor the' holiday traffic. • There would bo no ■ebmmPhsurato'return for . making /a;, regular stop: thero in the case of 'the afternoon train, which would /probably, bo -taken, off In/the ceufsoof .seven : or : oignt,wedks..:,;.:;;,;'./

Mr; Allen Wants to Know— / ", '''•Mr:' JAMES .ALLEN, asked if the Minister would state' definitely: what' the policy was tp Tic- in regard..to railways into country districts. Tho-Prime Minister had made some nebulous regard to . guarantees,: but; a. defi'Uite: statemflrit was required. Ho also wished to know what rate of interdst was being paid oriloan riioney used .in the construction of the lines, arid, "approximately,. what was':tho:loss oil ttio/railw.nys/last year..,;, ■".. •>/. ; ; '. /;.;

Site of Wellington Statfon. y MrI'MILLAR said ho-cbuld not ..soy where tho new Wellington station-would be built; He recognised that as soon as a new station was provided to tako'tho traffic of the two present ■stations the better it would-be, but till they got tho -whole ■of tho yard laid out and ( other preliminary, work was completed ho. could not say exactly where the sito would bo. It would be somewhere .between, the presottt sito. and the lower end of Thoriidoii Quay. No;casual-em-ployees :■ of the Ma'nnwatti Company .were: taken over' by the Dopartmeiit. The:maximum pay for engine-drivers in Australia ■was.l4s.; .-and inNew ■ Zealand 12s. Cd. '.- In ISew Zealand, however, all the" engine-drivers were: divided into first and second sections,,and £l .OS. 10d.- was paid'to each pair of men.; In Victoria the amount was fls. 3d. per pair, and.in Now South'.Wales ho believed it. was lower. •■■-. , Mr TILL- (Christchurch South),also 6poko. Mr. FIELD (Otaki) said ■ the suburban service along the Manawatu lino, should bo extended from Johnsonvillo to Ponrua., . He wished to emphasise' that an early morning train from Otaki was necessary. It. was dei sired'that the 6.2 ft train from Wellington ,to Paekakariki should .go off to Otaki and return earlv in the morning. ■. ■■ ■ 'v.'.;'•■ ;.'•:■-. ' Mil' JENNINGS (TauinarunuiH urged' the c'ailns of people .who resided in unsettled dish'ictslike his. own" to; better railway ..facilities. JIo. .made, special, reference to demurrage. ; ■;;-

Statement by Mr. Millar, Mr. MILLAR stated that 3j per cent, was tho aicrage cost of money boriowcd for railway

construction./ Thoipss on the railways inst year . was . approximately; ,£220,000. , .That was what, lib Atas trying to pull up: Thb policy pf tho.Government in regard to-guaranteed lines could only, be 'stated by the. Prime .Minister. That was affecting, : tho construction ■ of, rail: : ways,; not working railway's... In reply/to Mr. Thoinsbn (Dunedin North), the Minister, said that on.some lines in America a.railway ticket could bo bought for 1000 miles, which could be punched like, a tramway ticket for short journeys totalling that distance;., It .was not used on .all the. American lilies', or in other coun-tries,-andho. did not think it was a very great success. Much improved facilities had recently lieon given in this .country, for. obtaining railway, tickets. Tickets at a lower rate than workmen's" tickets were provided iu tho case of employees under 21 years of age. . He could hot reduce the rates for workers'tickets. The policy of the Government was not to increase rates if.it could . possibly be' avoided, .There we?©, however, some rates that wore far top low. Tho Department had no right to carry anything at all for nothing. Tho extra ■ traffic :.to'Otaki : was refused because the. cost was estimated at £1000 a: year and tho revenue, at £400. If the difference between the revenuo and XIOOQ was guaranteed tho train would bo put on. .'. ',- . Mr. HERDMAN (Wellington North) pointed put that during tho. debate the Minister had riiadd ,rio definite,statement as to.how he' was going to make, tho .railways pay. It did ..not follow that the revenue would.be increased because thd; fares were augmented. It sopfned quito clear that what had been wrong in the past was that the expenditure had .been excessive. Tho Minister should at once niakd a declaration as to how.ho was going to mako the 'railways pay "the - interest on capital cost.".*' .■ ■'.' ' Mr.' HOGAN (Wanganui) .thought,"that v tho Minister was economising in tho /wroej* • di/ rectidn.. ■'• ... •.';' .'.

Making the Railways Pay. Mr. MILLAR said that the Government policy was to ; grant" preference' to locally-manufac-tured articles, including local timber. For tho eight months of this year, the railways re.vonud was £212(000 ahead .of last' year, and that revenue had becn'obfaihed bynu. increase of only, £76,000 in expenditure. The not: position of the railways' to-day was £138,000 better than .'at this time last year.: The Department's policy, would.be'to economise as/far/as: possible; arid toincroaso long-distancd rates,'but hot to Increaso freights if it could bp helped, except on one or two lines that wore practically being carried for nothing. By; tho'means indicated; he believed to. bring down by at least l per cent, the working expenses as shown by the Railway Statement;. ; '.The Railway Statemont members quoted; however, covered;only .two months of his-administration;-:'.They must judge' by tho '.nest' statement whether., he had succeeded in his policy. If tho Department got' £100,000 froni. increasing the long-distance fares and in eight months had.improved the ppsition by £108,000 as cpnipared with,last year", ho thought hecculd.seo tho £220,000 nc-cossary-to pay the.B} per,cent, that was rc : quired. ■-.■'.'. /.'■.■'.,/-' ,'"',■-,-'.'■' .'.. ; ,w :.Five hundred wagan. cevprs. had been: added during the year. F.mpleydes en the Manawatu line had-been increased owing, to/the increaso of traffic; extension of hours, and installatian :of the tablet.systom.'

Amendrnpnt Lost, ■';/• 'Tho amendmelit was negatived by 40 votes : Mr.-Masscy then : moved that, tho total vote be' reduced as.ari indication thai a day. should be set apart each session,especially for consideration find discussion. of: tho Itailway. Statement. Ho said he was not Eailway- Statement-was not - more ; important than tho Public Wnrks.Statement; . Tho':. : amendment ■ was. defeated "by. : 33 .votes - -Sir Joseph-Ward, said he would sot apart a morning for discussion of tho .Police Commis-: sioh's report, and a morning for consideration of: the Timber Commission's report.' ■ ; v • '■It was agreed to' continue sitting, until, the estimates for'tho' Native,. Mines, and Justice Departments :wcro disposed of. .j '.; : ;//- .-: '/(Loft Sitting:) -, / ;■_'///