GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Clutha Leader, Volume II, Issue 103, 30 June 1876, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

. kkk THURSDAY, JUNE 22. Ih- the House of Representatives on Thursday ■ evening,

Sir j. Yogel rose to move that the House would not interfere to prevent the/issue of. the Crown grant ,fbr the _?ial_b Swamp. The hon. gentleman prefeced-ihis remarks by stating.circum- , stanches jwhich had occurred after the recen-fc'fdivisibns upon Sir Geot-ge Grey's motions, tlpon receiving the resolu-tiohsVgafS-ed by .their supporters at their caucusl^meeting, _tKey ! replied that it woulidl be impossible they could remain in office a day without having this Piako Swamp sale .cleared up. They were, therefore, anxious to test the matter, so that, if the opinion of the House, was agaln^i.jthem, his Excellency should see^cfp.her advisers. After adverting to IheJrregiilar action of Sir G. Grey, he ,pujt "it to hon. members that, howeveristrpng party, feeling might run, it wasTabso.utely necessary there, should be some concerted arrangement outside the House for the , transaction oi business .within it. Where this was not

donei'.it was in the power of a single member to put the House to a great deal of inconvenience. The hon. member^ then read a number of letters, telegrams, ,and other documents, with reference to the Piako Swamp sale, and which' had passed between the Native Minister, . the Colonial Secretary, and M_i .'.Russell, during the period of two months, while the sale was being negotiated. These documents, he thought, were a conclusive answer to the charges that the negotiations had been conducted in a private room. As far as he was personally concerned, he had nothing to do with the matter beyond giving his approval. From beginning to end, the negotiations were entirely in the hands of- the Native Minister, though he did not complete it without submitting the matter to the Government. As to the insinuations that he favored Mr Russell, he thought he was

entitled to ask the House to allow him

te treat those insinuations with con-

tempt.— (Hear, hear.) - He appealed to the Native Minister to state if he ever committed himself to any decision without" having been requested to do so. — (Hear, hear, from Sir D. M'Lean.) With regard to this purchase, he could say that if he had again to come, to a decision under similar circumstances, he would act as he did then. It was tbe greatest extravagance of idea to think the land could have been ren-

dered available to settlers without an

enormous expenditure. The construction of that road was one of the very best things that could have happened to the district. To have put up that land to auction, they were fully convinced, would have rendered them the laughingstock of everybody. Even now there were about"_:0,000 acres that could not be drained without mechanical appliances. ,In fact, with a full knowledge of all the facts of the case, he still maintained that the Government had the best of the bargain. Notwithstanding all that was said to the contrary, he believed that if the works were offered to the Government at cost price, there would not be found half a dozen members in the House who would sanction so hazardous an undertaking, because it was impossible to say. what amount of money would have to be expended before the speculation could be said to be. a success. With regard to their, legal power, there was not the slightest doubt the Governor possessed all the power he exercised in the matter, which was only the. same as in a great ; many others dealt with in the ame way. There might be a question raised as to the expediency of the sale, but none whatever ,as to its legality.

To explain the reason why they issued their Order in Council before the meeting, of Parliament, the hon. gentleman read telegrams from the . Native Minis- i ter stating he had secured the Native I interests in the land adjoining the Swamp, and that a map of. the land had been prepared j and also read a letter from Mr Whitaker on behalf of the purchasers calling upon the Government to carry out the agreement, by giving a Crown grant for the land, which grant could not have been granted before survey had been completed. The.purchasers having spent a very large: sum of money upon the land, to which they possessed no title, had a perfect' right to demand that the Government should fulfil their obligation and . Crown-grant the land > as; soon as they were in a position, :to ; do so. The hon. gentleman then submitted a, map of the, Swamp to the House, and pointed out how a good deal of the land it was originally intended to allow the purchasers to have was taken away by the Government for Maori : purposes,: so , that instead of ;the purchasers getting, more. land than was originally, in tended, as' was- alleged, they on. the contrary got a great deal; less. Oh one .point he felt , bound to say that the honorable member for Auckland .City. West committed gross affronts and insults upon the Minis try > the House,' and the public at large, ;by appealing to the Home government and the . British -„ Parliament ,upon a question of this kind.; He would boldly say •j that themajority of ;the; people of the J Colony -would strongly resent the interference of the Home Government in r iters of purely local concern.— (Hear, \) The honorable member -• for kland West had gone the length of ag that the Government had made

a corrupt sale, and by implication tlie" last Parliament participated. - Well, he thought he was nut so angry as he should be with tlie member for Auckland West, f because he felt that the hon. gentleman labored under a morbid hallucination: on some ' questions, as, for instance, when he thought Auckland ran the risk of being cannonaded by Her Majesty's ships... He urged the. House not to deal with the question' as ? a party one. He did not think for a moment that the member for Dunedin City — Mr Macandrew — or the member for Roslyn — Mr Burns — : who had. both, known him for a long time, could possibly believe he would have lent himself to, such corruption as was alleged.. He held that the sale was a good one, that it .-was admitted now, to be. so, and that the Government had full power to. make the sale. He therefore left ■ the question to the impartiality of . the House. — (Applause.) Sir G. Grey rose amidst applause, and said this Parliament called on them .to do what no Anglo-Saxon people, except that, of- the ..United i States, : had r •been called upon to do, and it was with wonder and delight that he saw how the House responded Twhen he raised the cry of public wrong*. He inwardly'" exclaimed, "The hour and the men have come, and this Parliament is equal to the great questions before it.*' Touching the relations between the Governor and the Ministr}', he said the country required a Governor vvho would place an arrogant Ministry in their proper position, and give fair play to the Parliament and people of the Colony. Referring to the Swamp purchase, he said that, as Superintendent of the Province, he applied at Auckland for certain information regarding the sale, and, failing that, he had no other course to pursue than when he found himself in the midst of Parliament to raise aloud the cry of great public wrong. He stood before them as one accused of lunacy, and he therefore appealed to their sympathy. First of all, he would ask them to dismiss from

their minds ali the letters and documents read by the Premier as trash and twaddle." ; - They were worth-"*- nothing'. This transaction ; did not stand alone. There were many, other^similar- transactions, each one more grossly wrong than the other, and he instanced a case where 10,000 acres of coal land were sold privately, after being put up to public auction and not sold. Major Atkinson : It is untrue.

Sir G. Grey declined to proceed unless an apology was made for the expression, and appealed to the Speaker. The Speaker said that if Major Atkinson could not prove the statement to be untrue, his expression would recoil upon himself. Sir G. Grey proceeded to refei- to other transactions in land, which he considered a great wrong to the Maori as well as to the European race. He maintained that all the Premier stated to the House bore out his (Grey's) allegations. Another thing he wished to point out to the House was, that there were two Ministers in that House and in the other who we-e members of the Civil Service, and who were therefore not as independent, as Ministers ought to be, and that the Premier exercised; an undue influence over them. He believed the action of the Government was illegal, that their Orders in Council were so'much waste paper, and that high * legal authority told them so; though the Premier never said anything about it. He would give his belief—*-!, was, of : course, only belief— that . the Piako Swamp would, when drained, become asvaluable as Romney ; Marsh in England. ; He deprecated the idea of keeping in a Ministry simply to secure Abolition, no matter what their wrongdoings. The inhabitants of New Zealand were able to secure -Abolition themselves, and he warned the Minis^ try they would. yet have to remit tbat question to the people. He would not attempt to prove bis case any further. The Premier had already done that for him. He, as a supplicant, would withdraw from the House when the vote was taken upon this question, and he would ask the Ministry to do the same. It was not right they should be judges in their own cause.

Mr Stafford thought the House had a right :to expect from the hon. gentleman some substantial proof in support of the accusation of "corruption he so generally and ..freely bestowed. But what had. they got -but a wild speech upon everything on the face of the earth except, the Piako ..Swamp:? He must say he could not but admire the unexampled audacity with - which Sir George: endeavoreduo cast, opprobrium' upon the Governor by saying he was not an independent gentleman, and that he was but a tool in the. hands of the Ministry. ' Why, when lie (Mr Stafford) was Premier, -and, Sir. George . pr.ey Governor, the very things he so "condemned now were the regular practiceS,.He spoke, with of the Governor signing a blank paper, and yet, when the member for Auckland West .was Governor, blanks documents— even her Majesty's prerogative— were signed, not in 'pries or teris| but in hundreds,' at -the timj.,l and left entirely to't]ie,discretion of the Premier.h imself to use, . Tt' really appeared, that since ; Sir , George . Grey, ceased to be, Governor jhie ; did no-, thing but, bark, at alI f who followed him as Governor.,:; Why,, the, whole ,prin--iciple unresponsible ,* government wwars r that the Governor should jseek ; , the ;ad-, vice, of his responsible advisers. 7 Why,

without any law at all, -or "any sanction whatever, the hon. member himself (Sir George Grey) sent to the people" in: Sydney, telling 'them'' if they came here be would give them land to ..settle upon •■' ahd yet he talked of the actions of the 1 present Ministry. Yef when he was Governor an- Order ,in; Council was; issued to complete land arrangements. Even the coal-field sale he referred .6= as* mere corruption, he (Sir George) had offered that land 4 for sale in vain: ' It' was well known nothing could .be done, with it unless ifc was in the hands of one man. The Piako sale was- one of expediency — he absolutely refused to believe there was any ' corruption. When he was. in, office,,. and .finances, were not flourishing*, he would have .been glad to sell that.land ; if he- could; .He had seen the lower part of the swamp when it could have been' sailed .over as easily as the Waikato . River,, and the centre of the swamp rio niah had : ever yet seen. He thought at:the, tipie the sale was made that it was a ' very- good one, in * consequence' of -the large amount of capital and labor , it caused to" bY brought into the district. 'H : e.repudiated>the idea that the issuer of Orders in Council was improper; to do so had always been a common andeven necessary practice. He deprecated, the action of the member ior Auckland West bringing in so limited a-question-as Piako Swamp before the House had" an opportunity of dealing :with questions of a.far more important character, 'Mr Stout stated his 'reasons for howhe voted on the Piako question. Those who intended to support th? resolution moved by the Premier must remember that they would! practically endorse the sale of such large blocks of- land- as good, and endorse the doing of it in

secret without any public" "competition. There was no stipulation that the land should be settled. If all the, land that ■ could be at once sold by auction was to be sold to large capitalists, then millions of acres in New, Zealand would have to be sold immediately. ' 'Nothing had been stated to shqw;that the- _ sale was expedient. On the contrary, Government knew that tlie land would soon increase, in value from the projected railway. Besides, there was rio Native war o"n at the time. The hon. member then proceeded to. discuss f he legality' of the sale, saying that the Government ought tb have laid before the House the opinion of their legal adviser upon this matter ; but hedoubted whether a legal gentleman could be found who would risk his reputation by stating- that the action of the Government in issuing Orders in Council was legal. This agreement was not only a violation, of, but a fraud on, an Act of Parliament. They. said the land had' been open for sale for years, but it had never been open uprm the same terms as those upon which Mr' Russell had obtained it. Surely the Colony was not c mfined to one capitalist, who represented a Loan and Mercantile Agency Company. He.deprecated the bad example set by the Premier to new members, in not conducting a debate on administration without calling an honorable member a lunatic. Referring to the ridicule the Premier threw upon the Superintendent of Auckland, for imagining Auokland

ran the risk of being bombarded, he called to the recollection of the Premier how he bombarded the Courthouses in Otago, because certain delegated powers were not given; to the Superintendent. He cheered the remark of the Premier in ; deprecating the action 'of Sh 1 George Grey in appealing to a power outside our local Parliament; He -would remind the House they had a local Parliament in Otago, and people there claimed the right of administering their local affairs without the' intervention of. any other power. — (Loud applause from' the Opposition.) As far as the defeat of, the Ministry was concerned,- he' did not wish to see them leave the Government Benches, not, at least, till he saw the "Financial Statement.- He-objected to the form of the motion ; . he moved, as an amendment, ."■ That while the House regrets that the . exigencies of the Colony, or Ministry, should ever requrre the sale of a large 'block of land such as the Piako Swamp, to' one individual, and without competition, it is yet of opinion that the Crown. grant for such Piako Swamp should be issued, iv order that • the legality of 'the grant may,' if any person feels himself aggrieved thereby, be tested before the proper tribunal." Mr Stout put it to tl_4 Government whether they would accept this amendment?" The Government deojined;.. to; do; so, and • . . - :

k. On the motion of Mr-Reader'Wood,-the House adjpuined at 12.30 ,p.iri % „

._. .PRID4¥,.JTJNE23. ■>

On meeting at 2.30 p.m. on Friday, Jn reply to a question '-by 5 Mr"' Rees,- : 7 ; Sir J..,yogeLsaid,the Hon. Dr Pollen, w&s enrolled, ..uppu _ the Civil „..Seryic_e, ' and would be in course of time entitledto whatever retiring allowance would be \ calculated was due to- him. Sir IX , McLean, ; however, • did not belong to .the. Civil Service at 'all. .

" Sir D; M'__ean<made : a- personal ex> planation in , regard, to the allegation thafhe held' the r.ffice of Land Purchase Commissioner, and drew public moneys; fo^ other offices besides his Ministerial allowance. 'He ; wondered how Sir G. ..'Grey's memory should (ail him, as it | w a s he himself who abolished the office : of Lands -Puriihasirig' Commissioner in by proclamation ii^the * Gazette.'

He could say further)" that when made Minister he* resigned-o ffices.an d emoluments,. From 1863 .to the ; . present hour lie* had nevei* received l a single sixpence saye his pay. .as, Superintend dent of Hawkes Bay. "" ' " ;

Sir J. Yogel said,, re the Ha]l-Forbes contract, that the loss entailed upon the Colony wa,s L 18,765.., No. money had =yet been recovered, ! b ! ut he might say that there was --reason,, to .-expec.t. :spme portion would be recovered, a compromise having been' promised:' -He- hoped to be able to lay .more information on the matter before" the House before the session -.closed.. - - .-.'•■- '

; Sir J. ypgel moved the Disqualification Act Amendment Bill, the object of which was to legalise certain ..elections, and which could inflict no injury upon upon anyone.* ' ~ ',; ' '

.Mr Macandrew- seconded, the .motion, and said that the Disqualification Act was never intended to "apply : to' such c.ases as.. these /provided for in. the, Bill* | Mr*' '-' Murray recorded liis protest against' s the Bill. - The Government ought to, deal _with v the_ question , as-,- a whole, and not nibble at it piecemeal.

,: The Bill, was [read? a- second .time,* committed, and passed.

• The adjourned debate of tlie Piako Swamp: was resumed. ..:•!-* ■ '

Mr Reader Wood reminded the llou.se that already two legal" gentleman had addressed the Hous_7 and held that the Government's action was illegal, and though the Premier saioVthe Govern--ment had. a .legal opinion,, he .had not. produced it, though * defied -fo do so.' The honorable member proceeded to comment upon Mr Stafford's actidri in supporting the Government whether" right or wrong. He reminded- him of Lord Palmerston, who did not care for people to support him when he. was right — he wanted people to support him when he was wrong-. The honorable member for Timaru found -fault that Sir.- G. Grey had npt.adduc.ed. proof -j of his charges, but he appealed to r the House to say if the Premier had- not. admitted' every charge "rna'de by Sir' George Grey,- The honorable member than proceeded to severely criticise - the member for Tiniariwn his, remarks on th.c . previous night referring, to. Sir,. George's acts as Governor with' reference to signing blank 'pardons.- 5 The honorable member vaguely referred to some case wherein .a, Premier insisted upon haying; the. last .sentence of Jaw carried out upon some person, but that the Governor would not consent. The honorable member then, pointing to the member for Timaru, said lie ought to thank God he had a kind heart and a clear head standing between him and,thejudi.ial murder.

Mr Stafford interrupted, giving an unqualified contradiction that- there was ever any instance such as that indicated

Mr Rees than proceeded to comment on the conduct of the Governments . Native land purchase .agents, and quoted' at length from Bri'sseriden's evidence before the Tairua Committee -to-show how certain persons were unduly favored. All this went to show that these land, transactions should, be* put on a proper basis. There should not be one set . of land regulations for the. Government .and another. for the public. He had not ascribed "corruption to the Government in the Scsnse that any of them -had received, a cheque or any other beneficial. -interest from -the. transaction. But there „was_ corruption in giving to friends and favorites of the Government without due "publicity what would have been *" refused to him if he applied for*_t. ; j Referring to thePremier's .remark about Sir . George Grey as to the bombardment of Auckland, the hon. "m'eriibe'r said if the letter

to :the Secretary for the Colonies was that of a lunatic, then the argument of the Premier, when he said they would become a laughing stock if they offered eighty, thousand acres by - auction, was the argument .oT ah idiot."

"' The* Speaker pointed; out that the expression was put in a Parliamentary

-Jvay.

' Mr Rees was. understood to express, regret if it was so. Mr Ormond regretted that the only substantiation of grave charges made against the Government should be ; speeches like that ofthe hon. member -—amusing and. discursive— /but [not what the House ought to expect. It was an earnest -of what -might be expected •in .future, that they -vould be equal., to their, duties devolving upon them.""„He regretted ' the issue, of. the late surprise* which no; doubt /.coujd v haye been atfoide-l, though it was easy to ibe wise after tlie >e.vent>. The outcome of that vote wiiS.-.-to place the in the hands oi the House, to be. sifted to' 'tlle ; ' bottom , "' either l to '*' he A -•proved ..or -disapproved- :-4hat? was; .-they! .position. r ("No, no," and " Yes, y.es.'') Touching 1 'the 'sale 1 ' he' was ! of opinion* that the regulations : w.ePe;-n&t (! st,ric.tl-y< i -complied with, and.that it would bays : been better for the Gdverririifitit'to forego what -might be ] a : very good bargain r-ather than carryj out. =what r was done irregularly. \ y ,_ ; „ ■ , r . . _ : ... On resuming at 7:30 p.m., 'Mr De Latour continued the debate on: tfre-Wanip purchase; "strohgly-'o'p-*' .. posing j.tip { p, : y,anp^^^ _, t .. i , ; r: . : ' J; ivtr Bryce' defended the sale as a singularly eMpedie'rit'Orie-, whi.c_t- would' probably not have been made .yet if; -not. made in the manner it vvas. v He" qupted from Mr M urray's^ evidence befor.e the SeleetCdihrhitfee-toprovevthat a fair price was.'?received'i'fbrAthe land by, the.c Government;. r : .- He',;"cb.ncende;d

that the large expenditure" on' reclamation did great-good to the ; district when looked at ih" connection, with Native affairs. Mr Murray considered the sale was not necessary ,or advantageous,, and said' that the roads made through the swamp - were n.xt; to useless .for traffic. The Government ought to have made a rail way wlfrough ; it.' '*■■*■• Mr Stevens would vote for the moI tion. The salemight have been an administrative error,, but, the House was bound to ratify it. Mr Rees strongly- opposed the motion, which, if carried) would be the condoning of a flagrant piece of wrongdoing-. Not a Premier 1 in any of the many possessions of the British Empire would : dare= to fbring ,do(vri such a resolution. He advised tho House noV to ratify the contract, and if the Govern- ' ment pressed it, to walk. out without voting '" ■-■■■•'•'■ -- ..-• jMr ( .Ro.w.e,-;^though... apposed-,? very strongly to alienating large blocks of public estate, would vote for completing this sale. He knew all .about- the case, arid sailed over the swamp years before a majority of members in 'that House ever heard of it. .--.,- -; ... - < r |Mr Nake objected to x the sale, f because the Maori King' was riot consulted. jMr Macfarlane explained that the sale ofthe coal-field, which Sir "George Grey said was made' 'to Mr* Russell, had been entirely effected by himself on r behal'f of the Waikato Coal . Company while -Mr Russell wais.at Home, Mr Wakefield s Tid that though somewhat uneasy, at the .cdmmeh.einent of th ( e debate that the transaction was " dark,'' he was now satisfied there was nothing improper.-' At worst' it could only.be called, an administrative error. He "would" support the resolution 'because, it. was the.: only : way out of the difficulty in which the House had placed itself. Its very boldness was a merit in allowing members to vote for. it who would not do so" otherwise. He strongly opposed the alienation of large blpcks of land.

;Mr Montgomery said the Premier' had not made it clear to them that there had been no "additional land given to the purchasers'- of lhe swamp. The Government should' '.not "havej-bld, the^ land withoufsurveyihg it. He did' riot, believe there was any corruption in the matter. ' ■" • ••'•'••• ■ -' *' : ''•

; Mr Whitaker. gave all .the details of the" transaction from 'it's inception", tb the -completion,' showing that the sale was not only legal and regular in every way, but w,as absolutely a good bargain for the Government, and productive of very great, benefit to the Province by finding 'employment for "hundreds of immigrants. •' Instead of get.ting more land the Native- .Minister actually kept back 8500 acres of the best for th.c Na.i tiVes. .In, 1871. land could have, been bought for Is 6cl. to 2s an acre. , Over £35,000 had been"'" already expended upon it, but a large-riraount would yet be required. He denied Sir George Grey's allegation that he „w.ps concerned =in other land transactions, or had ever taken' any "favor 'from the Government.

Several others having spoken for ahd against, a discussion ensued- as to whether the House > should adjourn or go on, The House finally adjourned at ' 2:3 a.m, till 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday.

"TUESDAY," JUNE 27.

Mr Rees gave notice to move — "That, inasmuch. as Mr. Whitaker,; member fori Waikatbj'is interested in a contract with the: Government; it is advisable that a Select .-Committee be appointed to inquir*?, into the circumstances of , the caserto ascertain, whether the honorable member is entitled to hold his seat in the House.""

Some discussion; ensued upon the Order ofthe t)ay for the appointment of a Committee to try the allegations .contained inthe petition of James Macr kayj against tlie return of Sir George Grey for, the Thames. . . .

Mr Macandrew'said it -would save a great deal of time, if Sir ; Geotge i were now alluvved,, to. make his choice, of wliich seat hi Should sit for.

Mr-Stout did riot think that,' according to parliamentary ; law, Sir George was at liberty to^do. so. :,;, „ ': ....,; . As there was another similar Cpm,mitte'e asked' for; to try the allegations contained in the petition, .'of George Bentham Morris 'a£ainst' r the return of George -^dward -,Kead foi] the ;c ,East Coast district, „-;; „-> •...- )., I . x It was moved and agreed to that Mr the ' Members of tlio Minis-' try be meriipted from- - sitting ori* ; thes'e • Cdmm*i'tt_es>-^"v 'k -f-;,">- ■ '.',i i<- ,n-v'>:> On the iriiotiori.for a Committee7totry ,the contained ,jn the :petitlbh of H.nHVe' Pot"ae, ; 'co^nplami'ng* of :ari irifohrial '.lection' for the Eastern-'MaO-iielectoral district, .7 .'. : .» ; - ":'.: \i-., Sii*~l_>onald— M x Lean- moved—that -thepeitition- be dismissed, with ..the object of 'getting a now writ 'lssued. - ' |A good deal%f discuSsionerisued. fMa» Macandrewr moveo) thatttbe de-~ bate be adjourned. The debate, was > adjourned accordingly:"" "" iTh.e'adjpurnqt.i: debate, .on -tl^eSwamp was then resumed. <-.;•>-,-• , Mr Macandr.w regretted tha. so much eXtrandouSJ matter- had been-'m- ■ 'traduced dritO:rt;he debate,; and also?rer .gretted that the Governmgnt^d.niad.6. thi question. a party one. He, at least^ wduld not do so, There^had'ib-.h*'a r great deal of t r alfe of/big; men._ and little men as capitalists, .and especially of Mr -rßiissell/""' Weit,7'b^y^uld. only say he

wished the Colony, had a good .many men like Mr Russell.' He wished to point out to the House that the real question at'issue was : Was it right to sell 80,000 acres at 2s" Gd per acre, to "one" man ? \- Was: it expedient .to dispose ofthe public estate in that way? Playing been on the -.Committee last year, what he gathered from them left the -firm conviction.upon his -mind that the Piako Swamp was quite as good as the Taieri Plain 25 years ago, except that it was twice as big*, and on that there were settled now. 4:00 families, besides flocks and herds. He did not believe in the charges of corruption, oij that any member—of the Ministry made a .penny out of the sale, or that tbey ever dreamt of doing so. They r sijnply made a mistake, 'ahd ; the best' of -people did that occasionally. As. the best way he could think of to get out of the' difficulty, 'he wO'dld move as an amendment, " Th. ,t in the lopinion of--this House, it is expedient in the public in|terest ! that : the Piako Swamp should Ihd survey edvinto-.fsuitable -allotments, and sanctioned under the Auckland VYaJste "Lands 3 Ac V tlie Government refunding*; all payments" made? by purchasers, also that the amount expended on improvements altogether, with interest thereon." • .-.-:-•- .

Mr Sharp argued that an. utter want of proof had been adduced to "bear out the. charges of corruption and sharp practice, which were as devoid of foundation as those insinuations made last session against an ' absent man. He did not .for a moment believe that those honorable members v?ho made those charges believed in their truth them-

.Mr Tol'e said he was acquainted with the circumstances. "There were few in Auckland '• who: were not ; arid I after having perused the report of the committee of inquiry last year, be felt inclined to designate the sale by a less complimentary term than " transaction " If was a very queer transaction. Indeed, he very niuchdo'iibted' whether, if; he or anybody else applied for this land,..he would have got it,- and he considered, the issuing . of the proclamation regarding the sale in a recent .Gazette was merely a sham. The honorable gentleman expressed his belief 'that the whole thing 'was illegal, ; that -the Governor had exceeded his powers, that tne price obtained for the land was iriost inadequate, arid that the sale was alto r gather inexpedient. : Nonviolation of the law could possibly be a public benefit! He hoped the "amendment of Mr Macandrew . would. be . ;camed,. and the difference in price handed over to the Province of -Auckland. When he wais returned,, it was under the pledge that he would oppose any land "monopoly whatever.-. He would vote. against the original motion.

Mr Pearce said his opinion of' the matter was, that the Government deserved credit for what they did. 'Mr Woolcock would, support the motion and uj)hold the honor of their Ad* ministration.

Mr Larnach said ..it .was generally admitted that a fair sale, had been made, and he did not see how the House could faiWy. or .conscientiously interfere with this sale.' He- for one would say,' let the Crown grant issue. Any more swamp; questions' they had 5 to discuss he! hoped they would send before a Sel.edt Committee.

- A - Mr' Fisher deprecated the course the debate had ( taken, . tlie. greater, portion being either personal or irrelevant. He was -strongly- opposed to the' sale : of : large blocks of land, and would there^. fore vote • jagaiijst ..the. Government on this occasion.

Mr Fitzroy said he opposed the motion of the member for Auckland West, because he thought the sale was fair and open, and ought to be carried out. : He believed if Sir George Grey came into office to-morrow, he would have to carry out the sale. - JVlrPyke thought, from all, he had yet heard, that the Piako Swamp was, a place specially,' designed (subject, .pf course, to" the direction of Sir George),! for! amphibious settlers;, who would as" soon have their farms under water'as' abbve it. ■ . His own opinion.; was that: tbe conservation of, the. Piako Swamp was not necessary .to the welfare of New Zealand. He considered tlie /whole affair a trumpery one. r It J was stinking in the nostrils -df : -the people of the country, though the meniber. for Ariel-land West , '.bought it was the only 'important' question" they assembled there to consider.' "After quoting the evidence of the member for> Bruce to show -that the ..Government were paid a fair price for the land,;, the honorable member . r M*as .interrupted by the 5.30/ adjournment, - - - —

| f For continuation -see $/&/* pagei)