"A good old talk for quite a long time”

Press, 18 October 1980, Page 14

"A good old talk for quite a long time”

This is the text of the press conference given by Mr Muldoon on Thursday, October 16, after the caucus meeting at which his leadership was discussed.

The Prime Minister talked about the East Coast Bays by - election and wound that up with a long discussion on the state of the economy and economic policies. There are some good signs. The bal-ance-of-payments forecasts for the June, 1982 year are now quite good and very manageable, chiefly as a result of the settlement of the lamb .levy in Europe ar * the extra price for butter to Europe. This has given a considerable boost to export earnings and put our balance-of-payments projections into a situation where we can build some new economic policy on them. The negative side of the East Coast Bays election was, of course, that we lost. So we were looking for reasons and all . kinds of reasons were brought forward — very difficult to evaluate them. It is a bad time to be in Government. People are unhappy that you’ve got a high rate of inflation, a lot of unemployment at.d people

r e worried no matter hat. they might be. Some of them don’t like the way the Prime Minister goes about his politicking. Some, on the other hand, like it very much. Finally it comes down to the fact that, in a by-elec-tion where you’re not going to change the Government, it is worth-while in the eyes of many people to say ‘l’m a bit tired of this Government and I’ll show them. I’m going to vote Social Credit. And they voted Social Credit; the ma t „ot in.’ I don’t believe this will be carric'. forward to the General Election. At General Election time the issues will be there. Do you want a National Government or do you want a Labour Government At General Election time our forward policies will be more apparent our energy-based policies, our polici of growth, think big, and not just think about big organisations, but think big because of the spin-off from thinkr _ big that goes into the whole economy. right down to the small businessman and the wage and salary earner, from th n ;e policies.

And I believe that these will be a considerable issue at next year’s election and so does our caucus. The Labour Party will be on the other side of it and I think the Social Credit people will be somewhat irrelevant at that'time because there’s no way that they’re going to form a Government.

Sb we had a good chat on these things. We accept the fact that we failed to get our message over to the public. I think you people have to accept some of the responsibility for that' as well as us. That if you are concerned totally with the more spo ‘acular trivia, then

the message of what the political parties propose by way of policies will simply not get to the people.

From there we went on to yesterday’s Dominion Executive meeting, where many of these concerns were expressed. You had something '' a report on it yesterday —and 1 reported on it. George Gair reported, and Hugh Templeton reported — we were the three who were down there — and then we had a good round-table discussion among members of caucus.

There was a surprising degree of unanimity on what’s wrong with the party, where we’re going wrong and also to some extent where we’re going right because we are the Government and we are governing. We had a good old talk f:r quite a long time and reallv we just finally ran out of time. One or two members read letters which were critical of different aspects of our policy; one or two were critical of them, and that’s understandable. I read a telegram that came in this morning from the marginal seat of Eden. “Muldoon is the only politician in the party of Prime Ministerial calibre,” signed McKenzie, 8 Averton Road Epsom. The messages are coming in from both sides and that’s all healthy and not too bad. So there are some people in the caucus who have been thinking in recent weeks that they would like a new leader — and that, under our rules, they’re entitled to do — and they’re thinking of Brian Taiboys. And this is what Brian Taiboys had to say on it. David Thomson rang him at 10 a.m. this morning, just after caucus commenced, and he said ‘Please tell me where you stand on the leadership of the party’. And Brian said: ‘I think it would be better to stick where we are. I am concerned that if we make a change we would do ourselves more harm than good. If caucus is determined to make a change, I will not fefuse. My attitude is that I am his right hand and that I support him and will continue to support him. I’m not there, but if caucus is determined to make a change then I cannot refuse to serve. My advice to caucus is that we should continue with what we have. It’s basically about style and at* titudes. Let.' Rob find out for himself. If he’s prepared to adjust, let’s stick with him.’ At this - stagd he asked David: Thomson for his advice, and David said ‘I have no doubt we can win with Rob and we should: not change the leadership.’ I’m giving you this to be perfectly frank with you. There’ve been so many head-

lines about what might or might not have been said and done that I’d much rather tell you myself than havo you guess or find out piece bv piece. That’s where the caucus ended. Press: Mr Taiboys said that if you were prepared to change he’d stick with you. Are you prepared to change? Prime Minister: Well, you’ll have to wait and see. ; P; Can’t you give us any indication. . . P.M.:'No this is a-matter for my caucus colleagues. They make the decisions finally in these things. P: What sort of change are they seeking from you? P.M.: Well, this again is the subtlety of the thing. We can all have our own opinion. It could be to be kind to journalists, but I don’t think so. P: You said yesterday that you thought you were a bit long in the tooth' to change. P.M.: Yes. P: Did caucus vote then on the question? P.M.: No. No. That aspect of it hasn’t arisen at this stage. It may at some time in the future. P: Don’t you think that Mr Taiboys was giving you a message that you must be prepared to change? P.M.: I may say that I had a chat with Mr Taiboys early this morning as well. P: What was the tenor of that conversation. P.M.: Amiable. We’ve been good friends for over 20 years. P: Do you know how many people in the caucus or how strong the opposition to you is? P.M.: I think I’ll have to leave that to you people. P: Has the discussion ended yet?

P.M.: I really don’t know. Tve made it clear; that if anyone wants ;to raise the issue next week or subsequently then by all means they can raise it, because that can happen at any ■ time. And there may. be someone who wishes to raise it.

P: Are you under some sort of testing period, now to see whether you do change? P.M.: I don’t think so. We don’t do things like that; we do things in a much more relaxed manner. P: You don’t • think things could come to a vote when Mr Taiboys gets back? P.M.: Who knows. I’ve given you his thoughts on the matter. P: Do vou feel secure enough to put the question of leadership into the ring yourself? P.M.: "Well. I guess it’s in the ring. I think it was probably in the ring today. Why should I bring if up? That’s what thej' do in the Labour Party. Mr Rowling says ‘Please give me a vote of confidence’, and they dutifully do it. P: Why don’t you ask . for a vote of confidence? P.M.: Because I don’t think I need it. P: Do you feel now, Prime Minister, that you are ruling with the 'confidence of caucus? P.M.: I wouldn’t go so far as to say that. I’m sure that considerable num-bers-of caucus members are concerned at some of the criticisms that have been levelled’ and are prepared to pass them on and perhaps echo them. P: What is your view of the party moving, at some stage lin the near future, to change the leadership in favour, of Mr Talboys. P.M.: I take the same view as he does. I. think it would do harm to change the leader at this stage. P: Do you think, things would have got this far if you had not been out of the country' for • six and a half weeks? P.M.: No, I don’t think so. P: You would have been here to stop the speculation? P.M;: Well, we’d have dealt with it as we went a long, I think. But you see the East Coast Bays result made a lot, of people very, very sad.

. And obviously you have post mortems and you get a great long list of things. And we had a talk about it today. A great long list of things that went wrong and went sour and who was responsible for them. And I think that’s good and fortunately, we can do it in our caucus without rancour. We do it just as a discussion among friends and quite without rancour — and that’s a good thing. P: Do. you feel that the Party’s taken the opportunity, while you’ve been out of the country, to turn against you? PM : No, I don’t think they deliberate!}’ said ‘Well, Rob’s away let’s turn against him.’ I think it arose to some considerable extent out of the general political atmos* phere in the country, which is not good for the Government, as indeed it is not good-for the government in Australia and is not good for the government in the United States and is not good for Margaret Thatcher in Britain. This is one of those things that , happens from time to time. This.-is unusual, I’ve got to say that. P: Do- you' feel that you should stand down. P.M.: No. I’ve made that clear. I wish to lead the National Party to victory next year and I believe I can. I really do believe I can. P: Will you be doing anything in coming weeks to rally support P.M.:. I don’t really do' that, you know. People come along and talk to you and say ‘l’m on your side, Rob,’ you know. P: Do you feel'that you’re on some sort of trial? P.M.: No. We don’t really do that, that Avay. You blokes have ’ been here

for a while, you should know that. • . P; How was the ’ Taiboys’ message ' received by caucus? Was there any discussion of it other than the Thomson state-

ment? P.M.: No. We didn’t really take time for discussion.

That’s the point • at which we concluded. But it was appropriate that after a number; of others had had’.a word that he should be able to convey his thoughts to the caucus. And I think that caucus appreciated the fact. It gives them the feel of the thing. P: How did you assess the mood of caucus after that? P.M.: Well, you’ll have to ask them, and 1 guess you will, but I think members thought? that th*ey’d had a pretty fair morning on what was really quite an important subject. P: You did say that you didn’t > think you were ruling with the full confidence of caucus at present. Where does that leave, you? < - P.M.: Did I say that? T didn’t mean to say that.. That must have ..been -in answer to a question. Take it that I> did not say that. I certainly didn’t mean to say; that.. Let me make- it quite clear I think that caucus is perfectly happy to carry on as we are .ad this stage. If, when Brian comes back, they want to . raise the issue again, they win do so. P: Do you expect then that! this will bo raised at • later caucus. P.M.: T really don’t know. The chaps will absorb this morning’s discussions and make up their own minds, makq their own decisions. P: There was no vote; this morning? P.M.: No. P: Would vou expect , a vote at a later caucus? P.M.: I reallv don’t know. • P: You couldn’t tell from the tone of today’s discussion : that there,, is likely, to be a • later? - - P.M.: I don’t think the ques* tion arose in that man-* ner- No-one. talked- about votes. The term is counting heads.- Tve read it several times in,.the last 24 hours. Well nobody counted heads today. We have one each, no more.