Telephone tapped -inquiry witness

Press, 2 September 1980, Page 3

Telephone tapped -inquiry witness

PA Auckland]: Allegations of -telephone l tapping, interference with] mail, -and being followed- by] the police were made by a, witness, when the Royal] Commission of Inquiry into; the Thomas case resumed, yesterday. J':?:, -.: J. Ella..' y Veronica ,McGuire, said that from 1962 to' 1971! her husband was the Mayor, of Tuakau. After Mr Thomas, was arrested she offered ..her assistance/to: /Mys-.Viyienne j Thoma?.' . Mrs'? Thomas frequently ; used, witness’s ..telephone. be-h cause she had a lot of trouble with .her .own. . • “She always was tapped because, it . had strange ■ noises,” said Mrs. McGuire. •She said::that«*>n mahy occasions sh>. jawtijlnspectorp Bruce Hutton.* the .man: who headed;^e f Crewe..lntirderrin- j vestigafion; l/’§ittihg /outride ; her'Horne:-'"’-On one occasion, there was a meeting at / her. home . attended' bv Roman Catholic priest tele- ■ phoned to' say there was a ( police ;car.; s in the., church , grounds ' with somebody ; looking at the house. • The car had a loon on top of it. , Witness said she. ajso saw i Detective Johnston -outside Ker house. She went pfit-atid asked if he was waiting fot anvbddy. He was very . 'em; i barrasse'd, said; he had-to do what he, was. told,, and drbye j off. !■ i ■" . ' ■ - -1. ■ / '■’2 She also" once went 7/outand asked Mr ■ could help him.' Mi-s? Thomas was-on the.telephone at ‘the < time. ’■/.-"/ ' _ **’, J Mr Hutton, who Had earphones on. grunted and. snarled and. was . quite, ob-. viously annoyed. The car. she-said, seemed to be “a . mass of contraptions.” .Vj Mrs McGuire said that each, time- thel car - left. her : house it went to the Tuakau < Post .Office.- When .. it was i parked outside the post s office there was no loop on < it. She said She began to 1 have troub’e. with her telephone. On March 13, J 973, it J went ? completely / out of order. A .Post Office vain 1 subsequently called to fix it, • but she had not;.'Called thep Post Office, about it. ’ ■ ■ I ‘ The trouble, with -the tele-p phone ' startedwhen Mrs]’ .Thomas,.began- to- visit . the;’ house.. ‘ ; 1 • i' ' Mrs McGuire said she, also : complained to . the,-: Chief Postmaster at. Auckland that : their ma.H was being , inter- 1 fered-with., . ’She said she made-at least 1 seven or. eight? complaints • about 'problems .withw.jher 1 telephone. ; There.3/w,as- , tab- J oirig and ' clicking'' on r.the > line. ' ' • 1 h^Mrs-McGuire; said that .at.; the Sunreme Court she was 1 followed bv a man she as- ’ certained to be Detective . Abbott / .•? : •He also followed her. .'to 1 her.Tiftfel. “l asked/ltifri how ’ long .was going to keep 1 following me,”she said. “He

| said •■he was . sorry, but he ! was-hinder Hutton’s instruction's:’”' Mrs. McGuirev said -that I while- giving evidence: at the I first" referral -. in February, 11973, . some . documents were . taken from her room by a jman’she later saw- talking to ] She took .a photograph of ' them but the film 'was later ! stolen from her house. , She said there were times when.. Mr. Hutton followed her.-and her husband at race meetings. He would come up behind .>her-'at.; the tote and scowl' at: her,. On one occasion 4ie followed her all day qt ; Avondale? . •■/Mr/Hutton ■.was,; she said, interested: personally in rac- , in'g/.but he did'follow her at meetings.. ; ; ' VMr>' ; said that byer/She- last month she had taken? from- a mumber- of diaries/, dates -relevant ’to the icase, and’ prepared .a precis for' her.: own convenience to memory:;:. / • Mr' H?jC. •. Key tev;. .counsel assisting ' the'.'' commission: We have found a number of differences between your diaries; and the precis. You have clearly written into your precis things, not in the diaries, and other things' in the diaries not in the precis. Witness: I did the precis in the-? evenings.;, T own... a shpp': : l’m a busy person,: and iti'wasn’t very easy. : ■ While ' "she was : being by Mr R. - L-. Fisher for the police the* ■ commission ■ chairman < (Mr Justice. Taylor); . told ' MtS McGuire: Just answer?/h’is questions/' you, talk tod much/;woman. . ' Asked by Mr Fisher If/she' .could .see-.any diary eritry'in .March, 1973, referring to? Mr : Hutton ;in‘ a. police car with headphones, the witness re-pliedr’Not-immediately. , -Mr- Fisher: I think the closest .we get is an entry on -March 21 when you saw a gold coloured Holden and also a creamy whitish Holden. - - - . . Witness: Inspector Hutton] had been there before-that. | < Mrs McGuire said that she] never suggested, .to , A .the] police that .they move ..their I headquarters to her house, i • She said that when she; saw the-man take documents; from her hotel room, he! didn’t get. the ones he] wanted. The ones he took] ■ were,unimportant.” ! ■ Mr Kevin Ryan (counsel] for. Mr? Thomas),, she . said, j had given her some import-] ant papers to look after and they were safe. The man went through the] ■window and down the fire; escape, and she took: her. ca- l mera and went out. into the! street.-. She did not, see .the man hand any/documents to Mr Hutton. ” ■ ~ v : she • was hot 'called to give evidence at the»secbnd trial. .:. George Abraham McGuire said that he was a real , estate agent and fanner. During '.’the ’ Crewe 'investigation he and his wife had a lot of trouble with telephones, and;

he thought that their telephone wasibugged. The telephone would fade out, there were voices, coming on the line when. they were speaking, and there were unusual noises. He gained the impression the police were interfering with the telephone. ' Witness said he saw two Holden cars in the vicinity of their house and on one occasion he saw Mr Hutton in one. He never saw a wire loop on either car. ’.Mr McGuire said he - saw Mr Hutton following . his wife into, the. tote at 'race meetings. He also saw .Detective' Abbott ’keeping a ■watch-on her. < . ; - Seftori William . Stott, • a senior investigating officer with the Post. Office,' said’ that in 1973 He-was directed by . the' Chief Postmaster to investigate alleged- telephone tapping at- the Tuakau exchange, which at that, time was manual. The complaint came from Mrs McGuire. Witness said he interviewed an operator and another staff member. He could find, no evidence to substantiate the allegation. He also had some of the telephone wiring in the vicinity of the McGuire home, which had a junction box near .it, checked: There was no sign of any interference. \ To Mr P- A. Williams, for Mr Thomas, Mr- - Stott said that the’ Post; Office monitored telephones only, .with jth6'.;xvritten’ authority of the lessee/ '?'■■■ ?■-?.<' ■'■■' ■ ■ ■' .-■ ■ ■; . Earlier. George Patrick Vesey, the - former chairman of .the : retrial , committee. Said/that; before the second trial he was assisting Mr Ryan,. ■'■'</•. ■■’ ’ ’ On-the Wednesday before the second trail he went to the Supreme Court office to collect a jury list.- The office told .him it had no authority to hand out a for-- - to “just anvbody.” ._ Mr Vesey said that,, the next day, bn . the ' understanding /that- Mr .Ryan had given the necessary authority for him to pick up the jury list, he returned to the office at 10 a.m. He was told to .return >in! the l afternoon,- and.he. finally received the list at 2.40 p.m: He and Mr Ryan went to the keeper of; the electoral ■ rolls.. The first two names ion the jury’list differed with the rolls. . r *■:... . ■ “Mr. Ryan said, “This is Igoing to; be.’ a. tremendous 'job’,” said the witness. ■ '■