House Debates Confrontation

Press, Volume CIII, Issue 30531, 28 August 1964, Page 3

House Debates Confrontation

(From Our Parliamentary Reporter) WELLINGTON, August 27. Two major threats existed in South-east Asia —the Chinese Communist threat from the north and Indonesian confrontation from the south, said the Prime Minister (Mr Holyoake) during the debate on South-east Asian problems in Parliament tonight. “I think it is pointless to argue whether one of these is more important than the other,” he said. “Both threats must be met, and New Zealand must play a responsible part in meeting both.”

Mr Holyoake described as "a policy of armed insurgency” the support by China of renewed attacks in Laos and South Vietnam, and its support of Indonesia's policy of crushing Malaysia. ‘‘This is the threat South-east Asia faces today.

“This policy of violence, ofj the pursuit of revolutionarywars and local wars by China and its supporters, must not be allowed to succeed,” said Mr Holyoake. The matter in dispute between Russia and China, Mr Holyoake said, was the manner in which free and democratic countries could be undermined and overthrown. The objective of world domination remained the same. Russian leaders argued for co-existence. This did not mean that thev had abandoned their objectives, but it did mean they were conscious of the terrors of nuclear wars and of the need to avoid major wars, and were prepared to seek limited agreements that would promote world communism short of nuclear war. The Chinese, on the other ha-id, were obsessed with the need for violence and revolution. They rejected the idea that basic changes could be achieved peacefully. They said revolution was the only way, and that it was inevitably violent. Support Here Mr Holyoake said that the New Zealand Communist Party supported the Chinese communists and their policies, and gave them all possible propaganda aid within New Zealand. Too many people in New Zealand had been influenced by that propaganda.

Mr Holyoake said that if terrorism and insurgency were to succeed in South Vietnam and Laos, the free world would face the same problem somewhere else, then somewhere else again, “every step coming closer to Australia and New Zealand.” The Minister of Defence (Mr Eyre) said Malaysia, if left alone, would develop a balanced and prosperous economy.

It was good to see democracy on the move again in South Vietnam in an endeavour to evolve an acceptable system

It was too easy to criticise forms of governments in South-east Asia. Opinions should be tempered by the knowledge that even in Britain and New Zealand the democratic form of government had existed only for a comnaratively short period.

“President Sukarno has launched Indonesia on a senseless effort to crush Malaysia, when New Zealand and other countries have been only too willing to help Indonesia concentrate on improving its own economy,” Mr Eyre said. “President Sukarno's idea might be to divert attention from the internal situation, which has seriously deteriorated largely because of his misapplication of Indonesia’s wealth toward the purchase of military’ equipment from any source willing to supply it. and regardless of whether it was obsolete or unsuited to the area.” Untrustworthy President Sukarno had said West Irian was Indonesia’s last territorial ambition, but Sukarno’s word was not to be taken or trusted. "I believe him to be one of the tragedies of our time.” He had reduced Indonesia tc a tragic economic state. He was like a little Hitler. The Leader of the Opposition (Mr Nordmeyer) said it was patently absurd to talk of South Vietnam as a democTcy. “The sooner the people of these areas are allowed to speak for themselves, and to say what they think, the better it will be for the world.” ‘■Khanh Can’t” “Leaders in the area have been described as sawdust Caesars. It has been said that if Khanh can’t, no-one can. It looks as if Khanh can't Who can? It looks as if we are having one military dictatorship replaced by another.” It could well be that the considerable American military presence in South Vietname and its advice had helped prevent a spread of war to the north. The situation was taking a difficult and dangerous turn.

“Communism in South Vietnam will not be contained until people there want it contained It is also true that the United States has contributed hundreds of millions of dollars in a social and economic assistance effort in the region. “This may point the way A larger economic and social aid effort from us could contribute more than spending on munitions of war. “The Opposition would fully support any such move. 1 think perhaps we do not realise our privileges, obligations or responsibilities in this matter.”

Mr Nordmeyer said Senator Wayne Morse had found no ( evidence that Communists inj South Vietnam were from the north. Morse Slated Sir Leslie Munro (Govt., Waipa) rejoined that the senator was an “irresponsible maverick of the first order” who had switched from Republican to Democrat and had been the only member of Congress not to support American strikes in the Gulf of Tonkin. He would like to have heard Mr Nordmeyer condemn Ho Chi Minh, tyrannical leader of North Vietnam. “I would also like to have heard him agree that the Red Chinese lead the way in supplying Communists in the area.” He described Dr. Sukarno as an unscrupulous dictator bent on aggression. “What disturbs me about the leaders of ! so many Afro-Asian nations is that acts of naked aggression I by Sukarno are not condemned for one minute.

“I rather think this problem may confront us in less than a generation. I am glad to see we have ordered five Orion planes and are adding to the fleet. We will also need helicopters. “If the United States’ position in South Vietnam is not tenable, then we in this country are in dire peril. For many years we will have to defend our heritage and make greater sacrifices. I am sure we have the will to do it.”

Mr W. W. Freer (Opp., Mount Albert) said he regretted the House devoted so little time to external affairs and asked Mr Holyoake to consider extending the time devoted to it.

“Whether we have a 6 per cent wage order or we don’t it doesn’t matter, if we have a war. For days we have talked about savings, but what good are our savings if we’re at war.” Mr Freer said he was sorry to find Sir Leslie Munro wrong in some of his opinions.

He quoted from “Time” that Senator Morse was not the only one not to approve the American strikes after the Gulf of Tonkin incident.

“I’m delighted to find ‘Time’ is on my side,” said Mr Freer. Sir Leslie Munro: I don’t always agree with “Time.” Dr. A. M. Finlay (Opp., Waitakere), said the most urgent and pressing problem in South-east Asia was that toe many countries were seeking to impose their regimes on others, in the belief it was for their own good, and in the hope that it was good for the oppressed. What they did not realise was that the views of the oppressed and the oppressors were not always the same. Sir Leslie Munro, had engaged in what was becoming known in the House as his traditional sabre rattling, said Dr. Finlay. He was glad Mr Holyoake, who realised there were different aspects of all these different situations, was in charge of the Government, and not Sir Leslie Munro, who saw everything in the

blackest of blacks and whitest of whites. Mr Holyoake: He is one of my greatest aides.

Fourth Change South Vietnam had just seen its fourth change in nonelective leadership in as many months, said Dr. Finlay. He was disturbed that during the last few months the Government could have been called on to support any one of these governments, which, events had shown, had not had popular support.

He was also concerned at events in the United States, and was mortally afraid that electioneering would take place not only within the confines of the United States but also in South Vietnam. He hoped sanity would prevail and over-ride extremism in United States’ foreign policies. The Opposition was accused by Mr R. E. Jack (Govt., Waimarino) of an attitude of repeated, though faint, criticism of the United States whose armed might, he said, made it possible for members of Labour parties throughout the world to go to bed at night in safety. The Labour Party should make up its mind who its friends were instead of adopting an attitude of lofty detachment. It was not the United Nations, but the might of the United States which enabled the Western world to remain secure against Communism. Need For Trust Referring to allegations against the United States, Mr Jack said: “We must trust our friends, and give them the benefit of any doubt.” Opposition voice: This must help a bit. Mr Jack charged that though he had heard criticism of the United States from the Opposition he had heard no criticism by them of North Vietnam. This last remark caused an uproar in the House. Mr R. J. Tizard (Opp., Pakuranga) said that when members heard the distortion of fact and travesty of justice “dished up” by Mr Jack they could understand why “people over there” were not prepared to accept the Western way of life.