Menzies Interviewed On Joint Statement

Press, Volume CI, Issue 29841, 6 June 1962, Page 16

Menzies Interviewed On Joint Statement

(NZ. Press Assn.—Copyright) LONDON, June 4. The Australian Prime Minister (Mr Menzies) tonight appeared on 8.8. C. television in the programme, “Panorama,” in which he was interviewed by Robin Day. The full text of the interview follows:

Day: Mr Menzies, we've read about your strong reaction on Saturday to the agreement which was reached in Brussels, whereby Britain would gradually do away with the Commonwealth preferences on manufactured goods from Australia and other Commonwealth countries. Now, why were you so disturbed about an agreement which affects only about 2 per cent, of Australian exports to the United Kingdom?

Menzies: Well, of course, the effect of it depends entirely on how many more agreements there are to come. Because it’ll be the cumulative ettect of these things which will be important, in the long run. Now this first one, as you rightly say, bore on a relatively small amount of trade from Australia, much more, of course, from Canada. But when it was announced as an agreement, thia at once provoked in our minds the question that is this the end of it? Is this a provisional arrangement? Or are we being told now that that’s the agreement? Day: Well, the British Government line has been that this can only be judged, and ought not to be judged except as a part of a package deal which is not yet completed. Menzies: Well, I’ve been emphasising to them in my talks since, that that needs to be made clearer than it was at the time this particular agreement was announced.

Day: May I put to you what one Conservative newspaper said about your statement—it said: "It’s a great pity that Mr Menzies should make such an outcry over the settlement on manufactured goods. His Government knows that its mam export interest will be well cared for.” And it goes on to make this point: "The main commodity in Australian exports is wool, and it's already certain that there will continue to be free entry of wool into Britain and Europe. Menzies: Well, the writer of that is—Like a lot of people he thinks that wool is our only export commodity. . . . Day: It didn’t say that.

Menzies: No, but he rather implies it. Wool is looked after —wool is safe. Yes. But we have many many scores of millions of pounds worth of other commodities, which are at risk.

Day: May I ask you about one point in your statement on Saturday in which you said that this agreement must not under any circumstances be taken as a pattern or the type of settlement which might be reached on other products? Now isn’t that rather strong language for one independent government to use to another independent government? Menziea: Well, I thought it wasn’t very strong, myself. You have to remember that these are our exports that are being dealt with—ours —these are our preferences that are being negotiated. Not your preferences into Australia—our preferences into Great Britain. These are the ones that are on the counter. We have a perfect right to express our views. Day: Oh. certainly, yes. What was the reaction of the British Ministers at the week-end to your observations? Menzies: I think they understood my point of view. Day: Were they angry with you? Menzies: No—oh, no. We know each other very well. We don’t get into that state of mind. Day: What safeguards Mr Menzies. .. .? Menzias: I may tell you that I . . . May I interrupt you? Day: Please go on. Menies: We in fact have been, as they know, most cooperative. We might have said at the very beginninglook. we won’t have anything to do with this matter. But we didn’t do that. We have.

through officials and other channels, put forward constructively. proposals without which Mr Heath, as tht chief negotiator, wouldn't have been as far forward, as he is now. Of all countries we have been reasonable on this matter.

Day: Now may I ask you about some Of the alternatives in this problem, Mr Menzies? If we join the Common Market, the United Kingdom stands to get free access to the markets of Europe; now if we don’t, as an alternative are you prepared to offer us free access to the Australian market—to take away your tariffs on our goods? Menzies: But aren't you rather overlooking the fact that we've been giving you tariff preferences in Australia since Australia began practically? Day: They have been reduced in recent years, haven't they? Menzies: But their effectiveness, let me remind you, has been such that we have over the period of the last 20 years been Great Britain’s biggest customer. Biggest customer! In the last 30 or 40 years we have taken more goods from Great Britain, though we have a population running from five million at the beginning to 10 and a half now, we’ve taken more than the United States of America, with 180 million people. And this is, I think, very largely the result of the preferential tariff position enjoyed by British goods passing into Australia. Day: But if we don’t go into the Common Market there must be some alternative trading arrangement for us to gain benefit from, and this is wha>t critics of your attitude maintain.

Menzies: Now look, I want to make it quite clear that whether Great Britain goes into the Common Market of not is a matter for Great Britain to decide. She knows far more about her business and her interests on those matters than I do. Or than we do. That’s not our point. We have said: ‘‘Very well, if you want to go in, thait’s your decision, and you will cast up the plusses and the minuses fairly enough.” We know what the plusses and the minuses are in the impact on our own trade and we want to come out of this with as little injury as possible. Don’t imagine for one moment we expect to come out of this at a profit, we won’t We will lose something. But we want our losses to be within reason. Day: Many people, Mr Menzies, see this whole issue as a choice between the Commonwealth and the Common Market do you see it in that simple way? Menzies: Well I think that’s over-simplifying the problem. I think the two things overlap. I wouldn’t at all be disposed to be dogmatic on that matter. But just to take a simple example, if Great Britain goes into the Common Market, the Common Market has an internal free trade, no internal customs barriers. Then certain products on which we now enjoy a preference, will be the subject of a preference to the European competitor, and we will have to encounter a tariff barrier, so that our preference will be reversed into a preference for one of the European suppliers. Well, this may be the price of admittance. This may be one of those things that must happen, if you’re going into a species of customs union And we feel the merits of that kind of thing. But we. being of the same race as you are. are always prepared to have a good look at our own interests on these matters and protect them. Day: Mr Menzies, there’s been some criticism in the press that you’ve doubtless read about your motives in

making your strong statement the other day. One was that you had deliberately overstated your case for tactical reasons in order to—with an eye on the harder bargaining, which is to come on wheat and butter and all these other things . . . Menziea: Well. I’m sorry to be disappointing on this matter but you say it was a very strong statement and a provocative statement . . . Day: I didn’t call it provocative . . . Menzies: Before it went out. . . . Day: I’m not objecting to it. . . . Menzies: My only’ doubt was whether it was too wishy-washy. Day: Well, would you like to strengthen it now? Menzies: I’ve never seen anything so built up and so dramatised —it's a perfectly simple statement We don’t want the rule that’s been applied to be—to manufactures —to hard manufactures—to be applied down the line. That's quite true. They know that There's nothing in our statement that hasn't been said a dozen times to the people conducting the negotiations.

Day: There'® another criticism made of you which you’ve probably also read That you made this protest, whether strong or not, to strengthen your somewhat shaky political position at home, where I believe you have a majority of only one in the Lower House of Commons.

Menzies: I may say that I’ve never felt so comfortable in Parliament as I did during the recent sittings with a majority of one. People think I’m crying myself to sleep every night worrying about that—they’re quite wrong. Day: You said before you left Australia that you were coming to look into the political implications of this European question. Now one of the things you mentioned —whether Britain would become a state, part of a European federation—what have you found out about this? Are you any clearer? Menzies: No, I'm not, but I expect I shall be before I leave. I've already had one or • two discussions with my old friend. Mr Macmillan — we can talk to each other, we're old friends, and I’m seeing him again next weekend. And I hope to furnish toy mind a little more fully Day: You’ve suggested that Britain as part of Europe can hardly be an independent member of the Commonwealth, those were your words when you arrived here? (Yes. > What effect do you think that is going to have on the whole constitutional structure of the Commonwealth and the Crown, the Queen of course, being Queen of Australia as well as Queen of the United Kingdom?

Menzies: I think it will tend to—myself—to loosen the structure of the Commonwealth, but the Commonwealth structure, of course, has been fairly well loosened in recent years, it’s become a little less structural and perhaps a little more occasionally functional. And when you discuss it of course . . • you just mentioned the Queen; we are the Queen's men and women in Australia. We’re monarchists, and there's a certain quality about the relationship between the monarchical countries which can’t be reproduced by a form of . words with other members of the Commonwealth.

Day: Do you think that would be affected if the United Kingdom were merely part of a European federation? Menzies: Well .... Day: . . . diminish the significance of the Crown . . . ? Menzies: ... the longer this. Well, that's true. But

the longer I live, the less disposed am Ito generalise about the future of the Commonwealth, because I don’t know quite frankly. But I do know this —that to me the great Commonwealth question is the relations between Great Britain and Australia. This is it. I know their relations with other members of the Commonwealth too—l don't underestimate them, but when it comes down to brass tacks, to me the continuance of the Commonwealth is vitally associated with the avoidance of misunderstandings between Great Britain and Australia and their working together—economically and politically.

Day: Thank you, Mr Menzies.