STATE WAGE RATES

Press, Volume LXXXIV, Issue 25660, 24 November 1948, Page 5

STATE WAGE RATES

Bill Setting Up Tribunal

SECOND READING GIVEN (From Our Parliamentary Reporter.) WELLINGTON, November 23. The Government Service Tribunal Bill was given its second reading in the House of Representatives this evening but the debate though comparatively short was heated. The Acting-Prime Minister (Mr Nash) said that every opportunity would be given to public servants to make representations on possible improvements before the bill was finally passed. The Leader of the Opposition (Mr S. G. Holland) said that never in the country’s history had there been such discontent in the service and he moved an amendment. the effect of which was that the bill should be deferred, pending the hearing by a select committee of the House of the grievances of public servants. The amendment was defeated by 37 votes to 34.

So seriously did the Government take the Opposition’s criticism that “the bill was oeing jammed down the throats of public servants” that its only four speakers in the debate were all Ministers, the best debating team that could be mustered in the absence of the Prime Minister (Mr Fraser). Explanation by Mr Nash

For some years the State service organisations had been urging that a tribunal be set up and that had been affirmed at their conferences in 1947 and 1948, said Mr Nash. The bill provided for that tribunal and with the goodwill of organisations the Government would discuss with them the text of the measure and any amendments they thought were required before the bill was passed. When the bill was passed the Government would set up the tribunal at once to solve the matters in dispute and have the decisions made retrospective if the tribunal thought that step necessary. Mr Nash said the bill was the outcome of suggestions over many years that such a tribunal should be set up. The immediate origin of the bill was the report from a committee called the margins and anomalies committee, which, as he saw it, was to determine the different rates of pay for skill and responsibility over the basic rate. Negotiations had been held over the last two years with the service organisations. The Government had met the combined organisations, which confirmed by letter that they could not agree to a tribunal. Friendly Discussion

The Government had since met them again, this morning, and there was a very friendly discussion with the representatives concerned. They asked that the Government should implement the report that had been made by the margins and anomalies committee in connexion with labourers and tradesmen, and refer the rest .of the proposals, dealing with clerks, to the tribunal. Mr Nash said that the Government could not agree to that proposal. Under the bill the tribunal had power to date back any pay order it made, but not further than the date on which application was made to it. Arising from the discussion with the Sarties, the Government would amend ie clauses in the bill to give power to the tribunal to date back the order further.

The Government felt, it was not Sracticable in the long run for Minters to determine exclusively what 70,000 men and women should have in rates of pay, and it was thought that that should be done by a tribunal, said Mr Nash.* “Bitter Resentment” Mr Holland said discontent was widespread in the Government service to-day. Never in the country’s history had the service been so hostile to the Administration of the day. He doubted if any bill in recent years had engendered such bitter resentment among public servants. Protest meetings had been held, and public servants were threatening the Government with stopwork meetings, direct action, and even strikes. The Opposition in recent weeks had been working overtime to defend the people of New Zealand from the Government which was elected to serve them, said Mr Holland. It had been the fanners, and to-day it was the public servants. Public servants*—and several deputations had approached members of the Opposition in the last few days—said they had been promised on the word of honour of the Prime Minister (Mr Fraser) that no bill establishing a tribunal would be introduced without prior consultation with the Public Service. Now the bill had been introduced almost, although not quite, without warning. The Public Service had appealed to the Government for justice,. and it had turned them down flat. The tribunal for which the bill provided had not the concurrence of any of the .organisations concerned, Mr Holland said. Public servants felt the bill was being jammed down their throats. Rightly or wrongly, they held that the bill was a device to delay what was no more than justice to them.

Service Losing Men Mr Holland said the Government’s attitude of neglecting to pay its skilled men a suitable margin for their skill was resulting in the service’s losing many of its best men. The margins and anomalies committee was set up after the printing office workers had threatened a strike and after the Government called in a police sergeant to tell the printing workers they could not use the department’s premises for a meeting, even in their own time. However, those workers were given some concessions, and other workers had since demanded similar improvements in their conditions. Several protest meetings had been held, and in one case the Government had asked that the meeting be not held, and that it be given a few days’ “elbow room.” Then a tribunal was to be set up without the Government’s heeding the report of the margins and anomalies committee. It would have been better had the committee not been set up if the Government did not intend to heed its recommendations. The tribunal appeared to be intended to delay matters for at least another six or 12 months. There was at present a dispute between the Government and its employees. and the Government itself should not be left to decide the issues involved. Terms of Amendment Mr Holland moved the following amendment- “That, believing it Is vital to the efficient and harmonious functioning of the various branches of the State service that the representatives of organisations of State employees should be fully consulted before any legislation setting up any new method of fixing pay and conditions of employment be enacted, this House declines to give a second reading to the bill until such time as the , Government has given the various or- , ganisations of State employees a full I opportunity of stating their grievances ' to a select committee of this House and of substantiating their allegations 1 against the Government of a breach of I its undertaking that no legislation set- 1 ting up a tribunal to determine pay I and conditions of employment in the j State services would be introduced i until an opportunity of discussion and , comment had been given them.” The Minister of Industries and Commerce (Mr A. H. Nordmeyer) said he had listened to the most provocative and inflammatory soeech from the leader of an Opposition which every time the Estimates had come before the House had objected to the number of persons employed in the Public Service and objected to the. amount they

were paid. The House was discussing a bill which the Government introduced and which gave effect to a Government decision to have a tribunal adjudicate on those matters which must have the consent of the .Government itself. The bill gave effect to the Public Service request. Mr Nordmeyer said there was no shadow of doubt that the margins and anomalies committee was set up to look at margins and anomalies and make recommendations to the Government, but it had been made abundantly clear previously by the Prime Minister that the Government was not bound to accept all or any of the recommendations. It had never been suggested by the Government or by any member or the Government that if any anomalies were corrected they should be retrospective to October 1. 1947. The chairman of the Public Service Association (Mr J. P. Lewin) had gone on record as saying the Government was not to blame for any lack of decision when considering the recommendations of the committee, said Mr Nordmeyer. The committee last June presented a unanimous report on suggested rates of pay for three classes of people—labourers, semi-skilled labourers, and tradesmen. They were the only classes of people about whom the margins and anomalies committee made recommendations. The Prime Minister had said that the Government

would not give a decision until recommendations were received concerning basic rate clerks. That report did not come to hand until last month, and no agreement was reached by the committee. Proposed Increases Mr Nordmeyer said that if recommendations were given effect to concerning a substantial increase in rates at present existing in the Public Service, public servants would be placed in a much more advantageous position than their fellow workers outside the service. Mr G. H. Mackley (Opposition. Wairarapa): Why were they not told about it? Mr Nordmeyer said that this was the first time the Government had had the opportunity of placing its case before the country. Most of the rank and file of Public Service did not know what the bill was about. He was certain they had not been told by their leaders that it was largely along the lines asked for by the association. The leaders had said in no circumstances would they discuss the bill with the Government. They had been invited to discuss the measure but they flatly and flagrantly refused to do so. The door was still open but, in spite of that, spokesmen of the Public Service Association refused to discuss the bill and indignantly told the country that the Government had denied them that opportunity. He would not be surprised if behind all the agitation was the hand of the Nationalists. Mr W. A. Bodkin (Opposition, Central Otago) said the Minister of Industries and Commerce had cast a slur on the Public Service by suggesting that distrust and dissatisfaction were due to political influence. So far as the meeting with the Prime Minister was concerned, and if language and justice meant anything, the recommendations of the committee should go back to October 1. 1947. The Minister of Labour <Mr A. McLagan) said the Opposition which was now presuming to champion the Public Service was the Opposition that previously had said the Public Service should be cut by 10 per cent. Representatives of Government service organisations had said in his hearing that they had received a better deal from the present Government than they had had from any previous Government and better than they could hope to receive from any Government in future. Representatives of the four railway organisations had said they were satisfied with the present tri- | bunal and did not want to change the I present method of fixing their wages I and working conditions. Representai tives of the Post and Telegraph Asi sociation had also said they aid not ■ want any change in the present system I of determining their wages and working conditions.

Mr McLagan said there had been an occasion when a spokesman of the Public Service had said that if they were not granted what they asked for they would be “at war’’ with the Government. and he had added, to make the matter plain, that the object of warfare was the destruction of “the enemy.” The Prime Minister had clearly stated that he would not commit the Government to accepting the recommendations of the margins and anomalies committee.