LICENSING POLL

Press, Volume LXVII, Issue 20328, 29 August 1931, Page 14

LICENSING POLL

POSTPONEMENT THIS year. HOUSE PASSES MEASURE. AN INTERESTING DEBATE. (PBF3S ASSOCIA.TIOH TKI.EOBAM.) WELLINGTON, August 28. In the House of Representatives this afternoon, on the motion of the Prime Minister, urgency was accorded the passage of the Licensing Poll Postponement Bill. In moving the second reading of the Bill, the Rt. Hon. G. W. Forbes expressed his appreciation of the attitude taken up by the New Zealand Alliance. He could understand the sacrifice its members were making in setting aside what had become a duty extending over a period of years, and he realised that this was being done only because of the exceptional circumstances prevailing in New Zealand to-day. He pointed out that the postponement ot the poll would result in saving not only Government expenditure but also expenditure by the rival organisations.

Mr Forbes declared that the economic problems of the day were big enough and serious enough to occupy the tphqle of the country's attention. He paid a tribute to the Restoration League of Invercargill which, he understood, had made every preparation for the election and had gone to considerable expense. However,, after it had been explained that any departure from the arrangement would imperil the whole issue, the League had withdrawn its opposition because it did not wish to create sucli a risk.

Biglits of the People. Mr J. McCombs (Lab., Lyfctelton) said it was apparently no use trying to delay the passage of the measure. Mr Forbes had already obtained urgency for it, and would be able to follow this up with the closure. Mr McCombs said lie remembered with what burning words Mr T. E. Taylor used to describe "the wrongs inflicted on democracy to serve the financial interests of this vicious monopoly." Mr Taylor was not there today to raise his voice against "this great betrayal," but his widow had 6ent a message that the people's right ; to vote on the licensing question which had been so dearly bought should not be lightly set ( aside. That was not only the message of Mrs Taylor; it would be the message of 8000 women belonging to the "women's Christian Temperance Union, which organisation had been primarily responsible for the enfranchisement of the women of New Zealand, the first woriten to be enfranchised in the British Empire. This Bill meant the partial disenfranchisement of the whplo of the people of the Dominion and might easily lead to further disenfrajichisem^nt.

Allegations Againct the Trade. The licensing law provided that if Parliament were dissolved within two years there-was no licensing poll, therefore the Trade's -representatives had done their level best to destroy the Government i'n 1930 and thus shorten the life of this Parliament. But having failed in this manner to secure a five-year period between polls, the Trade next turned its attention to extending the life of this Parliament. Now there was a proposal to make it six years between polls, and he understood that when the House went into Committee the>o would be a further amendment proposed which would secure that if Parliament did extend its life to five >yearß there would be no licensing poll far eight year* from the dfite 6f "the last poll. Mfuiy wild statements had been made regarding the cost of the poll, Mr McOombs added. He declared that the ?ost to the State would nbt exceed £12,000, every penny of which would h® spent in vthe Dominion. Printers would get some of this expenditure, but most of it wrQUld go tp returning officers and poll clerks, thus relieving some of the unemployed clerks. The big expenditure would be by the Trade, and this also would give employment. The Prohibitionists would have little to spend, but ho declared/ that no moral cause had ever lost or won by money. He considered that the present time was opportune for a poll because the people should hei given an opportunity to cut out unnecessary expenditure on the liquor traffic.

Amendment Moved. Mr McCombs moved that the second reading should be postponed-so that the Government might refer the Bill to the Inter-I*arty Economy Committee for consideration and report. Mr E. J, Howard (Lab., Christchurcli South) seconded the amendment. Mr Forbes said he could not accept the amendment;. There was no need to refer the Bill to the Economy Committee because the whole of the House was fully conversant with all the facts. The amendment to which Mr McCombs had referred hat} been approved by both side •. Mr had made stateconcerning the activities of the representatives of the Trade in 1930. Mr Forbqs said he was quite unaware anything of the kind had been going on. He had had no idea that he had been sitting on the top of a volcano, nor had he any notion that he might expect danger from that quarter. (Laughter.)

Pledges. Mr D. G. Sullivan (Lab., Avon) said if' the licensing; issue was of vast importance to every man, woman, and child in the Dominion he would like to know by what right any two executives such as the New Zealand Alliance and the Licensed Trade couli come together and have their decision accepted- in such a way as would deprive the right of g.ll the people of the Ddminion to exercise their judgment. He considered that no 'member of . Parliament could consider himself absolved f rOm anf pledge he might have wade simply because half a dozen people in an organisation hail decided to change their minds.

Mr J. T. Hogan (Ind., Bangitikoi) contended that the passage of the Bill | at the present stage would be putting tjie eart before this horse, because the Economy Committee might recommend the postponement -of the General Election, Mr Howard protested against the decision' of si* or seven members of the executive of the New Zealand Alliance being considered sufficient to justify the postponement of the poll. Mr W. D. Lysnas (Ind., Gisborne) contended that the executive's deoisiou absolved any member from his pledge, Mr W, Nash (Lab., Hutt) submitted that pledges fifed been mad§ to tho electors and not to the. Alliance. j

Amendment Rejected. Mr H. E. Holland, Leader of the Labour Party, said he was opposed to the amendment because he did not think the Economy Committee had any right to deal with a question of the kind. He thought the present would bo a suitable time to introduce the principle of the initiative petition, by which it would be necessary that an issue having once been defeated a petition signed by the requisite number of electors would have to be presented before the question was again submitted to a vote. The division was then taken on Mr McCombs's amendment, which was defeated by 5S votes to 11. The division list was as under:— Tor the Amendment. Burnett _ Martin Hogan ' Mason Howard - M unro Jordan Nash, W. Langstono Sullivan McCombs Against the Amendment. Ansell Lye Armstrong Lysnar Atmore . McDougall Kitchener Maemillau Black Macphcrson Bodkin • Makitanara Broadfoot Massey, .T. N. Chapman Munns Clinkard Murdoch Coatos Nash, J. A. Cobbc - Ngata De la Perrelle O'Brien Dickie Parry Donald Poison L'ndcan Ransom Field Samuel Forbes Savage Fraser Scmple Hamilton Smith Harris Stall worthy Hawke Stewart Healy . Sykes. Henare Taverner Holland, H. Te Tomo Holland, 11. E. Veitch Jones Waito Jul! Ward Kvle Wilkinson Linklatcr Young Pair. For. Against. Wright. McDonald Tho Bill was then read a second time. The Next Poll. When the House went into Committee on tho Bill, an amenumeiit was circulated. Mr Forbes explained that its purpose was to make clear the ell'eet of tho postponement and provided that tho vote should be taken at the second General Election from the present time. Mr D. Jones (R., Mid-Canterbury) said the possibility of prolonging the life of the present Parliament had been mentioned. He asked whether the Prime Minister definitely stated that an election would be held this year. The Hon. Sir Apirana Ngata: May be held.

Mr Jones said tho Minister for Native Affairs seemed to express doubt that an election would be held this year. The House should be told definitely what was the position. Mr F. Langstone (Lab., Waimarino): It depends on you. Mr Jones: I could give my decision in a moment. Mr Jones asked whether tho amendment would not mean that the next Licensing Poll would take three years after*the next General Election, whenever that might be. Mr Forbes said it was entirely for the Houso to decide whether the life of tho preseiyt Parliament should bo prolonged. Liquor Advertisements.

Mr Langstono asked whether Mr Forbes would agree to inserting an amendment which would allow newspapers in no-license areas to publish liquor advertisements. Tho Hon. J. G. Cobbe said he had been interviewed regarding the matter this week and had promised to bring it before Cabinet, but he had not had time to do so. He eousidered that tho matter should lie left alone until Cabinet had considered it.

Labour and General Election. The Leader of the Labour Party said tho Prime Minister should give an assurance thaly tho General Election would not be postponed. Postponement depended on the Reform Party. Reform members:-And Labour. Mr Holland: Labour will not agree to the postponement of tho General Election under any circumstances. I do not like to hear it suggested that the General Election should be postponed./ ' Mr Jones said if the life of Parliament were extended for two years, and United members had indicated that that was £heir desire—- ' Hie Hon. P. A. de la Perrelle: Why do you make those suggestions? Mr Jones said the extension of the life of Parliament had a definite bearing on the. meaning of the Bill and tho clauge should be drafted to avoid all uncertainty., Prime Minister's Belief. Mr Forbes, repeated what ha had said regarding the National Government and the extension of the life of Parliament. He had no power to form a National Government, but if the House decided that the present" problems were .sufficiently serious to Justify brushing aside the General Election it could do so. He believed sjueh a coin's© was necessary, but ho could not do anything without the support of tho HfSuse. He did not want to shirk the elections. His Party never had been better off 5 for candidates. , , • Mr Jones romadted that what the Prime Minister hads&id showed that the licensing poll might be postponed for five years instead of three as the electavs expected. Mi" Sullivan said the Loader of the Opposition could clear the matter up by stating definitely that his; Party would not agree to a postponement of the General Election. Perhaps the member for Dunedin West would make a statement. It had been suggested that ho expected to occupy a yery high position in the evenfj of a compromise.

Reform's Attitude. The Itt. Hon. J. G. Coates said much depended on the outcome of the work of the "Committee. If members of tho Committee could agree on a plan for the rehabilitation of the country he expected the House would help to carry that plan out no matter how they looked at it. It was impossible to foresee what would happen until the Committee made its recommendations. He suggested thai the Bill met the position as nearly as it was possible t*> meet it. In reply to Mr J.. A. Young (R., Hamilton),. the Prime Minister said the representatives of the Alliance and the Trade were agreed on tho provisions of . the Bill. After several other members had spoken main clauses were passed together with the amendment submitted by. Mr Forbes.

Clause Rejected. ' Mr Langstone then moved as-an additional clause that a proviso should be added to Section 146 of the principal' Act allowing newspapers in proclaimed or no-license areas to publish liquor advertisements without being deemed to solicit oil behalf of the Trade. sfr Forbes aaid the Bill was for a specific purpose and he advised the member to let the question stand over until another tiiue. However, Mr.Langstone called for a division. Hip motion was defeated by 39 votes- to 22, and the Bill was reported. to the House, read a third time, | and passed.