DEFENCE ACT.

Press, Volume LXV, Issue 19668, 11 July 1929, Page 6

DEFENCE ACT.

RIGHTS OF CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTORS.

DEPUTATION TO MINISTER, j [THS PBEBS Special Service.]! i , j WELLINGTON. July 10. i I A very definite reply was given by j the Minister for Justice and Defence ; •'the Hon. Mr Wilford) to a depute- j tion consisting of 13 ministers repre- j fceiitiri' T the Presbyterian Church of i New-'Zealand, who approached him j this ruornmg with regard to the rights I of conscientious objectors to military training. The deputation was introduced by Mr P. Fraser (Wellington j Central). j The Rev Dr. E. N. Merrington, j Chaplain to the Forces, and convener of the General Public Questions Committee of the Presbyterian General Assembly, Dunedin, said that it was not a pacifist deputation. It represented the Presbyterian Church of J New Zealand, which was made up of j members holding widely different j opinions on the subject of military training. The deputation was approaching the Minister on the specific case of Richards and Miller, who on Junp l%h a t Auckland had each been fined £5 and deprived of civil rights for 10 years. They had been offered hospital" duty, but had refused. On the same day three Seventh Day Adventists had been exempted without any alternative service being required. The Minister: Thev were offered alternative duty and had accepted it. That information came from the officer commanding. Dr. Merrington continued that the Presbyterians of Auckland, Christchurch, Dunedin, and Wellington supported the deputation on the major pleas. There should be a settlement of the broad principles of the interpretation of the Defence Act in relation to the exemption of conscientious objectors. It was regretted that there "was discrimination between the various denominations It appeared to be the practice for Magistrates to fall back on the tenets of the faith of the denominations concerned, when there was any doubt, but why should men of good faith, allowed freedom of conscience on the subject of war as far as their Church was concerned, be refused exemption ? The Minister That is for the Magistrate to decide and no one else. j It was important that there should be a definition of the powers of a Magistrate, said Dr. Merrington. and the exercise of those powers, so that there should be some protection for people from >:he use of those powers in an arbitrary manner. If things went on as at present, something like a national crisis might arise, similar to those in the past, when sincere men stood for their rights of conscience against a stronger power—the State The Rev. D. D. Scott (Onehunga), Clerk of the Auckland Assembly, and the Eev. Dr. Gibe also outlined the wishes of the deputation. Dr. Gibb stated that if the young men concerned had been first granted exemption <■ they ■would willingly have gladly done hospital work or other work by way of al-

ternative duty. If the Minister did not take action, the two young men ■who had refused to pay their fines would be imprisoned. It was a serious thing that young men should be sent to prison in this way, and an agitation might sweep the country. The Minister: I am afraid I cannot be terrified, Dr. Gibb. Dr. Gibb replied that he did not expect the Minister to be terrified, but at the same time there was intense feeling in the Church on this matter. Replying to the represehtationSt'or! the deputation, the Minister said that he did not care what the religious convictions of a man might be. Anyone had the right to apply for exemption from military training if he believed he should not do it. The clear duty of a Magistrate in considering such an application was to ascertain if the applicant was conscientiously objecting. But if he believed that he was not conscientiously objecting, he would not be worthy of the name of Magistrate if he granted the exemption. He (the Minister) would see that types of alternative service were gazetted, and when that was done alternative service could be allotted, but after examining the results of the efforts of his predecessor in office he was convinced that this question of alternative service was a very difficult one. If anyone had a suggestion to offer as to a suitable type of alternative service it would be gladly received. He did not intend to do anything in the way of interfering with the sentences passed on Richards and Miller. If the two students were wise they would pay their fines, but if they did not pay they would have to take the alternative, as any other man would. He felt sure that the people of New Zealand would not say that the three Auckland Magistrates, who on four occasions had decided that Richards was not conscientiously objecting, were wrong in their opinion. He did not say that Richards did not have many good qualities, but he did say that he was not conscientiously objecting. The case was closed and could not be reopened. Richards had drilled at school, and before continuing training in the Auckland Battalion had protested, not as a conscientious objector, but as a politician. On the first three occasions on which he was charged he paid the fines, but on tue fourth occasion he proposed to immolate himself on the altar of sacrifice by refusing to pay the fine. Did the deputation ask that the Minister for Justice should interfere on the fourth occasion? Miller had done military training up till 1927 or 1928, and yet Dr. Gibb had said that there would be deep indignation in the Presbyterian Church if he were punished for refusing to serve. Did the deputation wish the Minister to set at defiance the judgment of the Magistrates, who were sworn to do and act fairly? He coulu not take exception to the speeches of the members of the deputation beeause what had been said was commo. to the whole of New Zealand. He could, however, put his finger on the weak point of the whole argument. The deputation seemed to confuse the authority which interpreted the law with the authority which executed the law. On the questi of the provision of j alternative duty for conscientious objectors, the Minister said that the efforts of his predecessor (Mr Rolleston) in this connexion had not met with much success. "However," concluded Mr Wilford, "I am going to find an alternative. That is my job, and when I do find it I shall have it gazetted right away."