MEAT BOARD.

Press, Volume LXI, Issue 18302, 9 February 1925, Page 11

MEAT BOARD.

the lysnar charges.

royal commission opens. PRELIMINARIES ARRANGED. . ('special to "the tress.'') WELLINGTON. February 7, The first sitting of the Royal Commission appointed to enquiry into the charges by Mr W. D. Lysnar, M.P., in the Itcuse last session was hold here this morning. ' Mr -Lysnar protested against the action of the Minister of Agriculture and of the Me.'jt .Control Board in connexion with the sale, of certain freezing works and other properties of the Poverty Bay ■Farmers' Meat Company, Ltd.j to .Vestey Bros., Ltd., and as to the acquies'-encc of the Minister and Hie Board in such sale by consenting lo a, transfer of the meat export slaughterhouse license of the Poverty Bay Farmers' Meat Companv to "Vcstcv Bros., Ltd. The Commissioners arc Messrs John Alexander, of Auckland, barrister (chairman), Gerald Fitzgerald, and Alexander Macintosh, of Wellington. Sir John Findlav, K.C., appeared for the Government, Mr C.P. Skcrrctt., K. 0., for the Meat Board, and Mr M. Myers, K.C., for the National Bank of New Zealand.'

Mr Lysnar raised a preliminary question as to whether the scope of the enquiry was wide enough to cover all matters. >• -Tie said he wanted to sec' that- the .position was absolutely plain. If not, h'c'would urge the Governmont to have the order enlarged. .... The chairman: What is the exact point? Mr Lysnar: "I want a clear right to call evidence as to the circumstances under which Vestey Bros, conduct their business here and in other parts of the world.'' The whole point of his objection was the question of allowing a, big trust- or combine to conduct its purchases ' in' this country. Unless the Commission was allowed . to consider that phase of the matter, the enquiry would bo abortive. He wanted the words "in Poverty Bay" left out. of ono paragraph of the order of reference, so as to enable an enquiry to be made into the methods of Tester's operations outside of as well as in Poverty Bay. If the enquiry was going to be narroycd down to Vestey Bros.' operations in Poverty Bay, ho ought to be informed of thai, at once. If he'had the right, to call eridenco- as.to Vestey's operations anywhere, whether in connexion with their own freezing work 3 or as meat- buyers or meat vendors, he would be satisfied. Sir John Findlav said that neither he nor the Government had any previous intimation that. Mr Lysnar wag in any.way dissatisfied with tho scope of the Commission. .Mr Lysnar now raised the question as to whether tho scope of Ihe Commission should riot be enlarged. ' , , , Mr Lysnar: If you consider it necessary to enlarge it-; Sir John Findlay replied that he.was not going .to say . offhand whether .what Mr Lysnar questioned was covered by the scope of the Commission or not.

, Alleged - Broken Pledges. • -* - r Mr Lysnar said he "wanted to be ablo to giro evidence as to the pledge's Of the Government.,.and to quote the opin-' iOns expressed by them against Trusts, and it was because he claimed thatthere"' had been a breach "of such promises that the. complaints were made in the House.. He had never asked for an enquiry into Meat Trust, matters at all. That was for the Government. . Sir, John Findlay: [Would, you,mind expressing shortly what you want in this respect? Mr Lysnar: I.want' to-be able to give evidence 'that the : Government pledged-themselves to put the Trusts out, including; of course, Vestey Bros. Sir John' Findlay said the Government..wanted to keep.nothing out that was-relevant to ..the enquiry. The chairman said that certain clear issues must be adhered to.* As he read the Commission, tbQ charges were, mainly in connexion with the alleged unfair treatment- of-the -Poverty- Bay -Farmers' Meat Company. Character of the Charges. .

" Mr' Lysnar "said" that ' what he particularly wanted. the Commission \ to consider .were, the statements made by the Minister of Agriculture and by the Prime Minister in .the House that' by legislating in the manner proposed it was contrary-to tho policy of the Government a"hd the policy, of ..the.'country, and would cause a. revolution.. ■ Ho wanted that phase investigated, and that was the ground on which.tho Primo Minister" asked the "House to reject his (Mr Lvsnar's) proposed legislation. . Sir, John Findlay objected to such a statement being made. He asked lus friend" to put his requests in writing, and-to"let;him" havo a' copy., '. The chairman said he felt sure Mr Lysnar would have no. objection'to that. .Mr Lysnar, said he had.no objection to do so, "but he could not- ■ do EO • now*. lie wished to catch the Main Trunk train at 15 minutes "to 1. ~ Sir John Findlay: Well, you have two hours yet. Mr, Skerrett said it was impossible for the-Commission to decide anything until Mr Lysnar presented his case in soino understandable .and intelligent, form, so that they, could • understand hiß complaint and what mat ters he-de-sired to have investigated. ; Mr Lvsnar said Mr Skerrett was wrong when he suggested that hj? (Mr Lysnar) had asked for tho Commission. It was 1 the Government that was asking for the Commission to whitewash themselves. , . . : , Sir John Findlay-objected to such a i statement. Tho.v could - not, he suggested, discuss the terins of the Commission until they knew the character and details of .the .charges Mr .Lysnar was bringing both' against the Government and the Meat' Board. Mr Lysnar asked-if Sir John was goin "to approve of tho- attitu de .taken by the Ministry, and the' Minister ot Agriculture. ; "Unless he (Mr Lysnar) was satisfied' that the scope of the Commission included that, lie was-going-to ask for an enlargement of the enquiry.-The matter should bev settled now.:, The chairman, after consultation ! v-ith his. colleagues, said the/ Commission considered: the best plan would be for *Mr Lvsnar. to produce m writing the esact points in," which, he considered the scope of the enquiry was not sufficiently or widely sot * The master, could then betonsidcrcd. He di<l not thinlc, however, . Ithat : the , haa power to interfere with the Ordcr-m-Couneil nor to .enlarge the scope of itSir John. Findlay:' I want my friend to put his application, in writing, so as to say clearly.and definitely what he W& Mr Lysnar: I am-quite willing to put it in writing. . t In further, argument, Mr Lysnar said there -"were '■ some matters in which Mr

Jonea.and the. Meat Board wer& .not interested at-all. ' •

Mr Skerrett; You complain that the Meat Board acted improperly in the purchase of; these ■works by Vesteys. There is no reason •why you should not withdraw these charges. Mr Lysnar: I have nothing to withdraw. (Laughter. 1 ) Mr Skerrett: The abstract question of h.ow trusts arc to be dealt with is no concern of the Commissioners at all." , •• Question of Evidence. On the question of taking evidence, the chairman said the inain evidence couJ.d be taken in. Wellington, but tio doubt some evidence would have to be taken in Gisborne; Mr Myers said ho could not be expected to call evidence •on behalf of the bank' until Mr produced evidence. , Sir John Findlay said the procedure was akin to. that of a court of justice. Mr Lysnar should c,ill his evidence and close his ease, then he (Sir John) would, present the Government's case. Mr' Lysnar said all he wanted was to get the evidence out. Si* John Findlav said- there was no desire to 'repress or suppress evidence. It" was decided to commence the taking of evidence in Wellington. The chairman said this would save time. It was agreed to commence the enquiry at Wellington 011 March 17th. Documents Asked For. Sir. John Findlav asked for the production of: ' (1) All books, papers,'and documents showing, or relating t0.,, the financial position of the Meat Company as- and beforp the date of the sale to .Vesteys. (2) Correspondence, telegrams, and statements of account •• between' the Meat Company and the National Brink of New Zealand, and befivecvn, the bank and..the company. • < (3) Correspondence, •• i-ables, * and statements of accounts''between 'the company and the Bank of Scotland or its agents, and between the bank and the company .relating to ,the financial position of the-company at and before the -time of'the sale to- Vesteys,'and' also -relating'to the steamship Admiral Codrington.

(.4)' The correspondence between thecompany and its 'guarantors in New Zealand and between t.he guarantors and ..the Company.. ..

(5) The correspondence between the company and Mr Lysnar .and Armours or their agents, and between Armours and.the Meat Company and Mr,Lysnar. (6.) Correspondence -between the Meat- Company or 'Mr- Lysnar and Vestey Bros.,' and ""between' Vestey BVos. and the company or Mr Lysnar.

. (7) THe killing sheets and records of the company for three . yea.r3 prior to Juno 11th, 1924, tho .dale of Mr Lvsnar's letter to the P-rime Minister. Tile chairman asked "Mr ( Lysnar if he had any objection to produce these documents, and added that the Commission had Ihe same powers- as a magistrate in connexion with the conduct. of the enquiry, a.nd under a. decision: of Mr Justice Cooper's they could order the production of and papers. He asked Mr Lysnar if he had any objection to the "requests made by Sir John Findlay. Mr Lysnar: Some of these'things I certainly -object, to. Tho correspondence between the company and the. Bank of Scotland is one.

The chairman, suggested that they should get down the items Mr Lysnar objected to produce. Mr Lysnar: To the bulk. of them I havo nonobjection whatever. Sir John Findlay eajd there would nped to be a good deal of preliminary enquiry.' He wished, to have the .books and papers examined by an accountant, so that statements• relevant,,to the enquiry could bp placed before the Commission. . '.. Mr Lysnar- interjected that. the. ship had nothing to do with - the Government.

After some further discussionwas agreed to. take ..the > items - that . Mr Lvsnar did no,t" object to. ; . The chairman said he was desirous of saving time and simplifying the procedure. Mr Lysnar said he might, not be able to get copies. It would take some time. Tho company had no staff, and all its material and' data was stacked up'and locked up. 'lt "was a.ll in'a. heap. Sir John Findlay explained that all he wanted was access to the documents. He would ; undertake . to get . copies made.

Mr • Skerrett: All - these documents should be with the receiver.

Mr Lysnar: It has nothing to do with the. company as a. whole. Mr Skerrett (emphatically): Hasn't it. • ■ • 1 The chairman: That's a matter that Mr Myers might : have something "to say about. Mr Myers said that, without commit.ting.tho' bank,, he was. disposed to .say that any documents tho company might desire, would be produced. The chairman, said that from the remarks made by Mr Lysnar they might find that.the company's records were somewhat in disorder. , It seemed to the Commission, therefore,-, that the sooner steps, were taken for the investigation of-those documents tho better. It was quite clear that a number of matters involved, in the enquiry could only be dealt-,' with after-a. perusal of certain of the records of the.Meat Company. \ After some further discussion, t.ho chairman made a minuto to the effect that Mr Lysnar agreed that neither his company nor the ' directors , nor himself had any objection that the Commission and the■ parties to it should have access-"to' any documents relative to the matters within the scope of the present enquiry, including the balancesheets and killing sheets and the panv's correspondence with the Government, the National Bank, Vesteys, and Armours, and that every fadlity would bo given in that resjiect, but that Mr. Lvsnar did oSject.to.tho pror ductio'n of'correspondence in connexion with the Admiral Codrington, between the Meat Company or the. company's agents and the Bank , of Scotland. Mr-Skerrett agreed that the information regarding, the Admiral Codrington was necessary and should be produced. Mr Lysnar:-It will not assist the matters one iota.

Mr Skerrett, reverting to the" question of the Bank; of' Scotland and the Admiral Codrington, said, that if there were ,any documents in existence at all likely, to throw light on the subject of the enquiry they should be open to inspection. Eventually it was. decided to'take Six John ' Findlay's requests for documents seriatim..

Company's Balance-sheets. When No. 1 (which-Mr Lysnar had already agreed to) was read out, Mr Lysnar said, "No,, I cannot agree io that! It would : take a month to, do that." Mr Myers said; there, was no need for Mr Lysnar to get the material read. Others ' could do. that. The chairman: We, want only Teasonable access. We'. don't want. you to get it/ready. ■l/ understand- it- is proposed'to get an'accountant ;to- do', tho work. ; Mr Lysnar: Do,you want.-to;go in;to our balance-sheetsf ■ Sir John Findlay: Very likely. - ' Mr- Lysnar:- We will -give you the

(Continued at. foot of next' column.)

balance-sheets and you can .do what you ■ like with them. The chairman: I understand it is proposed that some approved accountant should-go into the'matter. '

Sir John Findlay: Yes,' there is no objection to the; Commission '3 nominating the accountant. t The chairman: \ All that is - required is .that an accountant should have reasonable access to the books and records of-the company. • T.hat disposes of Mr Lysnar's being troubled with the work. I 'understand it is • not a question of reluctance to produce them, but of setting a time to put .them in order. If the otherraide undertake, "by, means of a trustworthy man to go. through these things that will probably Teinove Mr Lysnar's objection toi No. 1, which I thought he' had "already'' agreed to. These things eecxn to me to be very relevant indeed.

Mr Myers: Mr Lysnar .said distinctly before that he had •no 1 objection whatever to these documents being produced. ■ •

Mr Lysnar:! object to the matters between the company.and the Bank of Scotland. ' '

Thic chairman minuted that all papers relative to the financial'position of the company at and beforo tne date of sale to Vesteys were to be'produced, saving that Mr Lysnar reserved- his right not to produce correspondence b'etwecil the company or its agents aij'd the Bank of Scotland regarding the..Admiral Codrington. .. .

{ Mr Lysnar then agreed to tho other requests made by Sir Jofrn Findlay. Bank and Ship.

The chairman: That leaves out 0110 point in dispute, viz., tho correspondence with tho Bank of Scotland.

Mr Lysnar: Beferring.to the.ship, tho position is that this matter is alive-to-day, and we hope to have sonm beneficial result. We ' want' nothing done to .prejudice the positiop. The chairman said the point in dispute could be left over- until March 17th. . • .

. (Sir John Findlay (to Mr Lysnar): Will you have that here on March 17th, so that if deemed necessary an order can be made that-the documents may be inspected'immediately ?

Mr Lysnar: I will not say what I can. do about that.,

Mr Myers: Surely that is a fair suggestion. He is getting'a concession, by what Sir John Findla-y' agrees to. . Mr Lysnar: It is out. of the scope of the Commission.- ... . Sir John Findlay-said in-view of Mr Lysnar's statement, he would press for an order for production subject to penalties for non-production. Mr Lysnar then raised the of whether Vesteys. should , "be . represented.. ' ; The chiairaan said the matter could stand, over, until . the . position about Vesteys disclosed itself. The Commission then adjourned. ,