BUDGET FIGURES.

Press, Volume LX, Issue 18148, 11 August 1924, Page 9

BUDGET FIGURES.

MR MASSEY REPLIES TO MR WILFORD. AUDITOR-GENERAL'S STATEMENT QUOTED. (SPECIAL TO "Tlin PI'.ESS. i WELLINGTON. August Kb The debate on the Budget, which ended on Friday night, has been unusually tedious and uninteresting, largely, no doubt, owing to the fact that there was nor much in the Budget that was open to critieism. The Prime Minister had realiy very little to reply to, and for that reason his speech in closing the debate was no. of such interest or importance as such speeches usually are. Mr Wilford's arithmetical criticism of the figures and tables had already been crushiiiglv replied to by the Hon. W. Downie Stewart, and Mr Masscv clinched the matter by producing and quoting as follows from a statement by the Controller nr.d Auditor-General, covering a reconciliation of the figures in the Budget with those in the Controller and Auditor-General's report for 1923-2-1, and other reconciliations with the Budget: — Loans liaised. —Budget figures: Newloans and these raised for redemption expenses, £ 5,245,340; for redemption in 1922-23, £3,009.780; total loans raised, £8,365,M0. Audit Figures. —New loans and loans raised for redemption in 1923-24, £5,295,3(50 raised for redemptions in 1922-23, £3,069,780; total loans raised, £8,365,140. Loans Redeemed. —Total loans redeemed, £8,406,201. Audit Figures. —Loans paid off, £5,238,251; from issue of fresh securities for redemptions in current year, £3,069,780; total loans redeemed, £8,460,201. Loans Raised.—Audit figures: Increase in debt (less raised for redemptions in 1924-25), £7,323,422; add redemption loans, making a total of £15,264,502. Budget figures: Total borrowed, £15.264,502. Loans Paid Off. —Audit figures: Decrease in debt, with redemptions of public debt and advances debt, and lesj3 raised for redemptions in 1924-23, £12,601,465. Budget figures: Total paid off, £12,001,465. Public. Debt (gross debt). —Budget figures: State advances loans deducted by Treasury (increase), less decrease in gross debt (page XXIII.), making an increase in gross debt of £2,663,037. Budget figures: Increase in gross debt, 1923-24, £2.063.037. Audit figure's: Increase in debt 1923-24, £2,633,037.

Net Debt. —No comparison with audit figures can be made, a3 net figures lire not quoted in the report. The following shows the position —Budget figures: Actual increase in net debt, 1023-24, £1,568,265. From this actual increase in the net debt the Treasury deducts loans for State advances, £2.679.450, giving a decrc'aso in net debt of £1,111,185. Keferring to Mr Wilford's speech, Mr Massey said he was amused and amazed at it. ' He had the greatest difficulty in following the honourable member. ■ "Ho reminded mo," said the Prime Minister, "of something in tho 'Jackdaw of Jtheims,' in tho Ingoldsby Legends. He cursed the Budget 'with bell, book, and candle.' 'Never was heard such a terrible curse. 'But what gave rise to the little surprise 'Wcs that nobody seemed a ponny the worse.' "With all the honourable member's eloquence and the force with which he delivered his speech, we wondered what on earth he was driving at." Suryiu3 Necessary. Mr Massey argued that it was necessary if possible to have a surplus if they were to carry on satisfactorily. A few years ago th?,y had the largest surplus v.liat he could recollect, abov.t six millions. Next year there was difficulty in making ends moot. lie remembered how on tho latter occasion the dionourablo member for Dunedin South tore his hair and wept because, for the first time in a good many years, they had something in the way of a deficit. "There have been no deficits sinea then," said Mr Massey, "and-1 think it is a matter for congratulation. The honourable member suggested that I refrained from telling the people what the surplus of this year was until late in the year. . Ever since I came into ■ Parliament it has been the custom not to announce the surplus until the Financial Statement is delivered. I did not do that, but I was in no hurry to make the announcement. I delayed making it becaiso I knew that a lot of political wolves —I am not speaking offensively—would hunt me all round the country and endeavour to get their share of the surplus before it wai divided up by Parliament. The honourable member knows perfectly well what I mean. I like going to Dunedin, for I have a great number of friends there, but I knew that the morning after my arrival the honourable member and Ins friends would be awaiting to interview me. As far as the surplus is concerned, I think it must be admitted that it is a good thing. It speaks well for the country when we can show a surplus oi 1} millions. I know it has been said that it should have been more; that there should have been £540,000 additional. I cannot agree with that, was out of the country when the arrangement was made, but if I had been here and tho question had been put to me whether I would allow the £510,000 that was coming in. from returned soldiers' land to be used for the purpose of building houses, and helping returned soldiers to build houses, I would have said: 'Certainly, let the money go. The money went, and it served a good purpose in providing the" means of erecting hcusps as far as the soldiers were concerned."

Taxation Commission.

Referring to the Taxation Commission, Mr Massey said he did not expect to do a very great deal in the way o* giving effect to its recommendations during the present session. Amendments would be made in the law, and he would take the opportunity of moving them when the proper time came. As far as the Commission was concerned, the critics seemed to think that it was intended to deal with all c . IaS3 of taxation and to be representative of all sections of the community. That was never intended. He took the re sponsibility for this. What he intended to do was to appoint a commission of men who had a good knowledge or the system of taxation, and give them the chance of collecting and analysing the evidence that would be brought before them; the evidence of people wit.i grievances. That had been done. The Commission had called attention to the land tax, which the producers of this country had had to submit to for man > a long year. It was not right that they should have to pay land tax ana income tax ob well. Even if a mnn had made a loss chxnng the year ha was called upon to pay land tax, and manv landowners had made losses during "recent years. A business man

(Continued at foot of .Twwrfc column.)

could pass a tax on, but the farmer had no means of doing so. "I do not mean to say," added Mr Massey, "that I am going to ask Parliament to repeal the land tax, because what I bolieve is that it wants modification. But Ido beliovs that what lias happened during the last fev; months, and especially in connexion with the Taxation Commission, has so brough it home to the people that therwill never again be an attempt to submit the producers of this country to double taxation. I aay they will never be called upon to pay land tax and income tax as well. We used to express a good deal of anxiety about thj single tax, but the single tax, so far as injustice is concerned, is nothing to the double tax. Mr Wilford: Did not the Commission recommend double taxation in certain cases? Mr Massey: In the case' of small grazing runs and pastoral leases they recommended that the income tax should be re-imposed. I wish to say that we are not bound to accept the recommendations of the Commission in their entirety. That was nayer intended, but I think we shall be able to make some very important improvements as we go on." Point of Order Ends Debate. Mr Massey then dealt at some length with Mr Wilford's statements in regard to certain Budget figures and tables. He suggested that Mr Wilford had better find a new financial adviser before he attempted another financial speech. At the conclusion of the Prime Minister 's speech there was the usual claim by Mr Wilford that he had been mis represented and misreported. He quoted from his notes what he stated he had actually said in his speech in regard to the Budget figures and tables to which he had referred. Mr Massey rose to add something, but Mr Wilford objected, and raised a point of order that Mr Massey should not speak unless he had misrepresented him. . Mr Massey said that was hardly fair. He had allowed the lion, member plenty of scope. He had Mr Wilford's words in a newspaper report, but would not have been allowed to read it. M? Massey was proceeding to explain further when Mr Wilford again objected that the Prime Minister must say he had been misrepresented beforo he could speak. Mr Massev: I quite understand that. Mr Speaker said that under the circumstances the Prime Minister could not make an explanation except with the indulgence of the House. Mr Massey said he did not intend to ask for the indulgence of the House, lie had been misrepresented by impli cation on the part of the Leader of the Opposition. He was proceeding to add something, but was cut short by Mr Speaker, and the debate came to an end.

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