THE PROGRESSIVE PARTY.

Press, Volume LVI, Issue 16882, 9 July 1920, Page 7

THE PROGRESSIVE PARTY.

DISCLOSURES BY A MEMBER, j (SPECIAL TO "THE TRESS.") WELLINGTON, July S. The Progressive Party around which io much rumour centred before and during last session, was dealt with in . a very frank spirit by Mr C. E. j Statham (Dunedin Central) this after- j noon, when he was moving his amend-j rnent to the Address-in-lleply. Mr! Statham's outspoken account of the origin, pi ogress, and aims of the pro-! gressive movement was subjected to a consider.".b!e > amount of interruption and di.-sent from the Government benches, particularly from those associated with it wtio have since entered tin. Ministry. ,\li' StaUiaui, however, stuck to his guns, and, in the course oi mis portion of his speecn, gave one ot tue most pronounced oxuibitions of i liard hitting witnessed in Parliament; lor seme tuiie. "I will have to. make some remarks' regarding tlie Progressive Party, - ' said Mr Statnain. "In tno lyio session, there was a certain amount of dissatisiaction with tlie political situation generally, and the present Minister ot Internal Affairs (tue Hon. G. J. "Anderson) came to me, witii others, and luked mo to assist in drawing up a pro- j gramme lor the Ilelorm l'arty. I de-j marred, saying: 'ton know my opinion | of ti;e present Ministry ; 1 would turn t lie in out root and branch.' '' The Hon. E. P. Lee: That was the National .Ministry. Mr Statham: "The Minister or] Justice ougnt to know about this. He was a member of tiie Progressive Party.'" One of the first planks of the platform, Mr Statham continued, was that the Ministry should be elective. To this statement, the Hon. G. J. Anderson objected, and Mr Statham retorted: "'ilia Minister of internal J Affairs ought to know about it; he was* chairman and convener of the party/' | "Then," Mr Statham proceeded, "I; come to the Minister of Education. He was an enthusiastic member, of the Progressive Party; in fact, his zeal outran nis discretion. He will not deny that lie was one of two who went up to persuade General Russell to join the party, and, indeed, to lead it," Mr Pan-: That is quite wrong.

Mr Statham then said he was not quite sure about tho leadership. The Minister of Justice, he proceeded, was very astute gentleman. He kept one leg in with tho Progressive Party, and one with the Ileform Party, lie was like the unjust steward who was commended by his master not for doing well, but tor doing wisely. Mr Lee: Give us facts. Mr Statham: "You came to some /of our meetings, and later you did not come." They then agreed, proceeded Mr Statham, that the Ministry should be elected. Mr Lee: I never agreed to that, Mr Statham: "Then you came to our meetings under false pretences." They also agreed, ho said, that no one of their number should accept a portfolio without the consent of the others. Mr Parr: That is quite incorrect. Mr btatham: I am astonished to hear the Minister, of Education say that. Mr Lee: The astonishment is reciprocated. Mr Parr : Do you suggest that the Prime Minister did not know all about this? ilr Statham: Certainly he was aware of it. Aa Opposition member: You held a pistol at the man's head. If lie had had his way, proccoded Mr Statham, they -would have declared themselves a party, and after supporting the Government to the end of tho session, would have come.out at the elections as a party. "If I have said any unkind things about the Prime Minister, or any of tho other Ministers," be proceeded, "I have said it to their faces, and not gone behind their backs." (Hear; hear, from the Opposition.)

Mr Parr: That again is incorrect. (Oh! oh!) The hon. member has never breathed a word to me about this at any time.

In response to several demands, Mr Statham said that ho would give the names of the Progressive Party. They were, ne declared, Mesars G. J. Anderson, C. J. Parr, E. P. Lee, G. R. Sykcs, Downie Stewart, A. Harris, J. M. Dickson, V. H. Reed, C. A. Wilkinson, F. Mander, J. A. Young, and Dr. A. K. Newman. He concluded this portion of his speech with an appeal for more freedom for the private member. "Is it not a fair thing," he said, "that the private member should claim some measure of independence by right? If I have done anything to help the privato member, mv time has not been spent in vain. I believe I will not bo left to plough a lonely furrow. I believe that there will lie a new party, a Young New Zealand Party, which will displace the party at present on tho government benches." PRIME MINISTER'S VERSION. During his speech in the evening, the Prime Minister gave his version of the origin, development, and conclusion of the Progressive Party. When he and Sir Joseph Ward were invited to go Home to attend the Paris Conference, he said, there was very little time to attend to what might bo called party matters. Members of his party pointed out to him that he would probably not -return much before the election, and the party needed a policy to place before tho country. The suggestiou was made that a small committee should bo set up to drart a policy. To tins he agreed. 'JLhe tiling was done, and Mr U. J. Anderson was appointed chairman of this committee. Time went on. He got through tile work of the Paris Coniurence, and while returning to the Dominion, lie drafted the poncy which almost in* its entirety was placed before the country at tlu election. He uid not say that no additions were made to it. Ihe committee met at times during his absence, and some of the members got t;ie idea that the Cabinet might be strengthened by the addition of members. This idea was put to him, and he was not unwilling, but when the proposal lor an elective Ministry was Vit to him, he said he couid not agree to it and retain his self-respect. iie Had suincieut experience to know that the Prime Minister must have the principal say in appointment of his .Ministers. , After detailing how he lmd made up his Cabinet to'its present strength, Mr Massey said that lie had put aside his own friends in the party, and had selected the men that he thought were best fitted to be Ministers. if these had been elected the Cabinet would not be' as strong as it wis to-day. It was eight vears"ago to-night, proceeded ill- -Massey, since he was first called upon to fonn a Ministry. . j Dr. Thaeker: That looks ominous; von must be going out to-night. ! * Mr Massey: The wish is father to the thought, I "am afraid. I know what is passing through your mind. (Laughter.) *'I want to come bacu to that committee that was set ud in *ny absence, ' continued Mr Massey. it- was true that he was ar/ure of almost everything i that was done. Its members were honourable men. A\ hen the question of j the iirtv party was raised the leaders of j the movement came and .'liked hini to be the Prime Minister, but ot course he coukl not accept. 'The name or Mr Mander had been mentioned earlier in the day. 'Acre was no member of his part}" who had been more loyal to him than Mr Mander, and it was only right that tke fact should be stated. When something was pr<&>osed b-'fore the com- , mittce that ]Vlr Mender did not think , was right, he moved, and Mr Hanis seconded, a motion that nothing more j should be done until he (Mr Massey) re-

turned. This was carried unanimously. Mr Statham: That is rot quite correct. I think, sir, the motion was not put. Mr Massey: Well, it was accepted. Tim*: went on, continued Mr Massey, and man after man came to him with assurances of support. The first to do was Mr Parr, who came to him just 1; d'ore leaving for Auckland to meet his constituents, with an assurance of loyalty and support. Every member came with a simiiar off.-r, save one man —Mr Statham. Three of them did not, I think. Mr Downie Stewart: I stood as an Independent. saying that I would support you against Sir Joseph Ward. Mr .Massey said that he did not mean that every one came for a personal interview, but either in that way or from the platform they gave him assurance.? of support, Three stood as Independents, but said they would support him. Tint was onou'ih ior him. He did not mind Independents. Mr 'Statham: Then wo had better all be Imlependents. Mr Massev: The hon. member will know what it is to bo an Independent before long. I hope ; and lam holding sut the olive branch) that he will come back to his old party and his old fru'iuls. He is like tin: lamb that has wandered and is oil the hill.

Mr Witty: Hi: is in a good fokL Mr Massev: He is not in your fold. Mr Wittv': He is over here among us. Mr Massey: Yes, but lie has said that while ho is with you he is not of you. (Laughter.) Mr Witty: If he comes back, will there be rejoicing over the lamb which was lost and has been found? Mr Massey: Yes, and wc will kill the fatted calf. (Laughter.) Speaking later in the evening Mr Massey gave an unqualified denial to the statement that any one of the three Ministers had over approached him or suggested that they should get into the Ministrv. Earlier in the evening Mr Anderson had come to him and had said that lie felt very keenly what had been said, and if he (Mr Massey) thought he was in any way to blame he would be quite .willing to place his I'csrignation in his Bands. 'Lh;vt, axUied. Mr Massey, was the action of an honnurable man, and Mr Anderson was an honourable man "1 am only sorry, concluded Mr Massey, "that the proceedings of this Parliament have been lowered in the estimation of the country bv what has taken place to-night more "than by anything that has happened in the last twenty 3 r ears. Hon. W. D. S. Mac Donald's View. The Leader of the Opposition (the Hon W. I>. S. Mac Donald) said that the charges made by Mr Statham were a very serious matter. Nothing would bo more calculated to shako the confidence of the people Mr Massey: Their confidence in rar- ] "macC'onald said that a member's pledge should be as binding aa an oath. Mr Lee: To what pledge do you refer? Mr Mac Donald: The pledges of your party. Mr Lee: No; my P-cdge. Mr Mac Donald: The pledge of tho Progressive Party was—Mr Lee: That is shuffling. Mr Mac Donald said that ho knew a great deal of what had gone on m the lobbies and in the House. He knew something of the overtures that were made for certain support. Mr Massey: What about the overtures you people made for a Speaker if you camte -back with a majority. Mr Mac Donald: When was that? Mr Massey: When I was in England, or more definitely, in Paris.. Mr Mac Donald said that he had never made any overtures to anybody to leave their "party or to act as Speaker, and he challenged anybody to say that he had. He said that from what he knew of the appointment or the three Ministers mentioned, their appointment was the mcst downright example of direct action. If they did the right thing they would resign tonight. It was one of the most serious things that had happened in his experience of Parliament.

THE PROGRESS OF THE DEBATE. SPEECH BY PRIME MINISTER. (abridged I'UKSS association* report.) ' WELLINGTON, July 8. Speaking on his amendment to the Address-in-Reply, Mr C. E. Statham, referring to the speech from the Throne, said it was so empty of policy that it resembled a sandwich with the meat left out. It was a public declaration by the Government of its own impotence. They said they could not do this, thejs could not do that. Perhaps they could not control the prices of imported goods, but they had failed to import bread and butter lines necessary for the people. The Prime Minister: What about sugar? What about butter? iur Statham said perhaps iu connexion with sugar the ijtoveminent did a certain amount of good. Me proposed to deal with bucier later. Jde complained that Ministers aid not give the ±10use a lead, Tlie only Minister who had spoken in this debate was the Minister of Lands, consequently the House was constantly kept in the dark. Touching the Hoard of Trade, he declared tnat the people had no coniideneo in it. It should be presided over by a skilled commercial man. No attempt had been made to control the prohts being made by big companies, which were resorting to every dodge to avoid tho declaration of big dividends, which they were earning. There was no ray of hope in the speech for the man with a large family. Our pensions scheme was inadequate, and worse still, it penalised thrift. There ought to be a better distribution of the necessaries of life. If asked how this could be done his renlv was that those who were well off must make greater sacrifices for those who were not well off. Drastic reform was necessary in connoxion with the Legislative Council. What was needed was a revising chamber, consisting of a few persons well nualificd to revise the legislation of the House. This would obviate to a great extent unsuitable appointments appointments which, without mentioning names, everyone recognised should not have been made. The Government s failure to reconcile capital and labour, and the failure to take sufficient from the banks was next referred to. In like manner the failure to revise the Customs tariff was condemned. . Tho country wanted an up-to-dato Department of Industries and Commerce, with up-to-date methods. He urged the necessitv o£ lovaltv to the Crown upon the Labour Party as the best means of saving the Dominion from invasion b\ the Asiatic race. At the evening sitting Mr J. M. D-ickson (Chalmers) said he had much pleasure in seconding Mr Statham's amendment, because it involved a principle he had advocated at the general election, and it had been endorsed bv his constituents. He regretted that the Prime Minister had made it a matter of no-confidence, because it would prevent many members of the Reform Party voting for a principle in which, he felt sure, they firrnly believed. He, however, could not imagine three Ministers voting against what they had so strongly advocated as private members. It was the first plank in the platform of the Progressive Party that Ministers should bo selected by tho dominant party, and personally" he declined to oecome responsible'for anv Minister in- whoso selection he haci no vcice. The best brains should be at the service of the country, and this was the only -way to get it," because there were many per-

sorul influences which induced a 1 Minister to select particu.ar c - ollca !? l \ Members could elect the Speaker of the House. Whv should they not olec. tne member? of the Cabinet.-' Ho as e ti:c Prime Minister to declare that he would not make it a matter ot want o confidence- -to accept tho nnnciple, or at least give the House a free hand o express its convictions on the subjevt. MR MASSEYSPEECH. Mr Massey said lie reciprocated tho kindly expressions from Mr Statham, but he said that nothing had pained , him so much as the speech by the mem- j ber for Dunedin Central. His amend- j ment meant that Cabinet .0! selected by the dominant party. This, ho contended, was not n mattei f(H h House to deal with, because the House had nothing to do with the prnato affairs of any party. But tho amendment meant more. It would proja j lead to an elective Executive. this was not the proper way to introduce a change like tins. It should e done by a Bill, as it had been dono many times before. He had voted or an elective Executive, but he changed his opinion, because- he becamo aware cl its weaknesses. The National , Cabinet was a case in point. He was proud of the fact that ■ the National 'Government did good work, but weakness was that there were many important questions on which they did not iegis.ate because they were not agreed upon them. He instanced pubnc t'ons oil which he said an elected Cabinet would probably disagree, and that wouid result in disaster. Coming to tho Governor-General s speech. -Mr Massey deiended the absence of x>olicy, because he never kne\. but one occasion on which any Government had put its policy into tne speech. He exhibited a copy of the i\.ing a speech delivered in the Imperial i »u----1 lament to show that it was but a brie 'document, and contained no p°ucv. The Government's policy would be disclosed in the Budget, and_ he had 110 hesitation in saying that it would be found to lie thoroughly progressive and democratic in its nature. In reply to Mr Statham, he outlined the movements within the Reform Party which led ui» to Mr Statham's proposal. He declared that when lie met his paity, he expressed his willingness to reconstruct his Cabinet, but when lie was told that tho party should select tho now men he put his foot down and lefused to agree to it, because ho could not do so and retain his self-respect. He was willing to accept suggestions, from the party, but he maintained that the Prime Minister must retain final choice in the matter of Cabinet appointments. He gave the reasons why ho had made the recent appointments, Contending that the men chosen were good men, and the Cabinet as at .present constituted was a strong Cabinet. There never was a more wholehearted, enthusiastic set of men in charge of tho public affairs of the Dominion. There was a great deal ' of work still to do, and they would do it. He defended tho delay in mailing the appointments oil the ground that it was necessary to bo careful, but tne country did not suffer. He proposed to appoint another Minister in a few weeks, but ho could not do so till the no-confidence motions were out of tfie_ way. Coming to tho electoral system, for which they had been blamed, he did not care what electoral system had so long as it was fair. It had bp en said tha.t the Reform Party had got into power on a minority vote, but he pointed out that the Reform Party did not contest sixteen seats, and they were entitled to a share of the votes cast in those electorates. Proportional representation was suggested, but it had failed in New South Wales, and he was satisfied that it would lend itself to intrigue in a way that the second ballot had never done. Ho hoped that no such svstem would ever be introduced in New Zealand, because the electorates would become too large, and the country quota must go He then proceeded to. detail the work done by Ministers to show that Ministers fully employed, and tho interests of the country had not suffered. Iho <rreat- volumo of work, pressing upon Aiinisters was the reason why Parliament could not Tie called together earlier. Mr Statham said there was no rav of hope, in tho Governor-Gen-eral's'Speech. He (Mr Massey) thought there • was, because heads of departments had tho courage to speak their minds and offer a note of warning to the neople of Now Zealand. This was one of the .finest countries the sun ever shone on, but we had to be careful with it all. ' Sane and careful financial ad'ministration was the first necessity. He defended tho appointments to the Legislative Council, which had not been confined to the Reform Party. Their repatriation scheme was the finest in tho world, and an effort had been made to catch the unpatriotic rich man by resorting to compulsion in the raising of loans. The cost of living was the next subject dealt with, the difficulties in the path of the Government in controlling prices being reiterated. He foreshadowed legislation dealing with the question this session, which ho hoped would effect an improvement without inflicting injustice. But the real remedies were industry and economy on the part of the Government and the people. The advantages of the moa-t commandeor, which would bring 150 million sterling into the country, were dealt with. A passing word of warning was given to tho Labour Party against their Socialistic tendencies, which would fail just as the "New Australia" experiment had failed, and then Mr Massey passed on to a defence of the Valuation Department, which, during the past three vears- had effected revafuations which had added 35 millions to the unimproved values of the lands of the country. On the completion of the revaluations now arranged for, only twelve counties would remain to be dealt with. That, he thought, was a very creditable record. Next he dealt with land settlement, than which, ho declared, there never had been so much in the history of the Dominion. This he claimed would help us over the time of financial stress through which wo might yet have to pass. Finally, he asked Air Statham to withdraw his amendment and submit his principle to the House in the shape of a Bill. If he did so he could have tho assurance of the head of the Government that he would have every opportunity of getting it discussed. (Applause.)

OTHER SPEAKERS. Speaking after the supper adjournment, Mr £. Kellett (Dunedin -North) said he would support the amendment, because he had advocated the principle of an elective Ministry on the Jiustings. The Hon. C. J. Parr said there was only one issue before the House, and tha't was confidence or no-conlidence in the Government. He regretted Mr Statham's disclosure of the "Progressive" wing's transactions, which were generally regarded as confidential, hut declared that, with the exception of •Mr Stathatn, no member of the "Progressive'' wing ever thought of being disloyal to the Prime Minister. Mr Massey's advanced policy last session had completely captured the "rebels," and at the end of the session the "Progressive" wing was absolutely dead. The Hon. W. 1). S. Mac Donald declared that Mr Statham bad levelled a definite charge against three members of the Government, and there had been no replv to it. That was that they were.definitely pledged to the principle of this amendment. The discussion on this amendment would shake the faith of the oeople in the Government, because there was only one way by which public men could retain the confidence of tin people, and that was to keep their pledged word. He suggested to the Piime Minister that he should maintain the honour of Parliament hy adjourning the House, consulting his party, and inducing his three new Ministers to tender their resignations. The Hon. E. P. Lee contended that

'he statements made by Mr Statham were not to be unreservedly accepted, and care should be exorcised in making deductions from them. At no time did he ever promise t-o support au Elective Executive, and lie was breaking no bond in voting against it. Mr Statham, by v.av of per?onal explanation, said if Mr Leo assured him that ho was not awaresof the pieposals of the Progressive Party, he would tinreservedly accept his assurance. The Hon. J. A. Kanr.n denounced the system of party government, and was proceeding to refer to political contortionists when the Prime Minister interrupted him, and said he should not spealc of political contortionists. Mr Hanan said ho had never been a political contortionist, but in 1914 the Prime Minister had supported the principle of an Elective Executive, which ho was now opposing. Mr Massey: Will you say you did not agree to accept office under me:' Mr Hanan : I deny that flatly. Mr Massey: Then I say you did. Mr Hanan heatedly declared that the Prime Minister was seeking to put him in a faiso position, in order to escane from an unpleasant position himself. The Hon. G. J. Anderson said whatever was done in the Progressive or Iteform Parties bad nothing to do,with the House. This amendment was a

clear case of washing dirty linen in public. He maintained that, on his election pledges, he had acted consistently, and had not been guilty of any breach of faith. He had already told the Prime Minister that if any action of his disqualified him from holding a seat in the Ministry, he would resign. Mr Anderson concluded by stating that Mr Lee was' not present at tho meeting of the Progressive Party at which the pledge referred to by Mr Statham was taken. Mr G. W. Forbes said this matter concerned tho honour of the House, and called upon the Prime Minister to do something to vindicate the honour of tho House. Mr F. Mander said if any of the Ministers had accepted office during tho existence of the Progressive Party they would have broken their pledge_. but since no party was in existence when thoy went into office, no pledge could have been broken. Messrs Young and Isitt and Dr. Newman said they would vote for tho amendment, and Mr R. Smith said he would vote against- it. Mr H. E. Holland announced that the Labour Party would support the amendment. 'Th" debate was still proceeding when tho Telegraph Office closed at 2 a.m.