GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Press, Volume LVIII, Issue 11098, 17 October 1901, Page 6

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

(pkess association t2xeqbam.) Wednesday,* Ocjtober 16. , LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 'Jhe Legislative Council met at 2.30 bHOI'S AND SHOP ASSISTANTS. liit Simps and Shop Assistants Act Amendment Bill was committed, and a us , .* - «.l;iu.'c, proposing to establish a che-mif-t-N - rota of hours' of attendance, was negatived. In the course of a discussion on the Bill, Mr SHRIiMST>I, in reply to a remark m<(de by Mr Jone?, said: "If there is a swenter in the country that hon. gentleman is one." Mr JONES ruoved that the words be taken down, which was done. Mr KHRIM-SKI declined to withdraw the words, and the matter was reported to the Speaker. Mr SHRIMSKI still declined to withdraw, and, ou the motion of Mr W. C.< vvALKKR, the Council passed a ■esolution '•I censure on :M|r Shrimski, and suspended liim for the remainder vi to-days ( tiitting., _ j Tiie Bill was put through its finid Mages. • THIRD READING* The Rabbit Nuisance Act Amendment Bill and Mlnti ' Rights Fet Reduction Bill, were through Committee without amendment, and lead a third time and passed. The Council rose at 3.50 p.m., ' HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. TurSDAY, OOTOBER 15. THE-ESTIMATES.' •"After the Teleoaph Office closed, the vote for the Department of Agriculture was further considered. -U the it<?m, "Establishment of dairy schools, •' £1000." Me.«sr» tJIcMKS and OMEARA urged tliafc dairy, schpols should be established in the various'-dairying'centres': • A irmsidenible discussion 'took place re- § aiding the purchase' of imported horses y the Agrioutunil Department. • -Mr DUNCAN said instructions were given to the Agent-General, who purchased the horses, to go to the War Office for advice. ', ' . Eventunlly the total vote of the Department passed" unaltered. At 3.15 the vote for the Defence Department, £223,250, tt-ai taken. In reply to Mr Pirani, Mr SKDDOX i-aid .1 bonus of £50 each •was given to Colonel Penton and the Unrier-.SEcret.iry for oxtr* eenices connected with the despatch of the Contingents to Mouth Africa. The total amount granted as bonuses in connection with the" dfsqiafcch of all tlie Contingents was only £667. Mr MEREDITH moved that th!e first item be reduced by £5 ac an'indication to the Government to 'take back the Defence csiimates and reduce them by £50,000. He explained thnt he did not bring forward ihc motion as one of want of confidence in the Government. He favoured volunteers, cadetr, and rifle clubs being encouraged, but what he strongly, objected to was the building up of a standing army in this' country and fostering the spirit of militiiikm and Imperial jingoism. Mr SEDDON twitted the member for Affhiey with having pestered him to accept ' the services of a Kaikoura- corps. He went onto.point out. that of late years the number of • volunteers in the colony had increased from 4000 to 18,000. This meant incrensfd capitation, en which he had alrpiidy spent £32.000, although the vote was only £30,000. He had no intention to bui.d up a standing aimy in. this country, as it was not- vranted, and he would never countenance it. The increased staff, was .due frolely to the increase in the number , of volunteers, and if allowance was made *s le.r th« extfa- expenditure on •volunbeert, it %'. /would be seen tliat thfe strictest - economy. V had been practised in the Defence Depart-J , mpnt. In increasing the volunteer force Hβ; was simp'y carrying oub the policy of the* country. -Wγ MKRBDITHsafd the Kaikoiira corps • evistffl a.4 an honorary corps for eighteen month*, and there was nothing wrong in their asking to be placed in the same position as other corps. Out permanent force had increased from 204 in 1891, to 490 at the present time, and unleae some action* was taken tthwe wait no knowing jrhwe thiK thing Would end. He contended; that Mr Seddon vwife creating a War Office*, Mr G. J. SMITH said a reduction might, be nude in the headquarters' staff, but lie did not approve of tais general attack on the "'- Defence mtiirmAes, seeing that the ■ growtih of expenditure was* dine to the volunlifeor system. ! 3lr HERRIES said he could name any number of foorses in the colony which would beat those imported, and he looked upon this vote as sheer waete of money.' - -. Mr HORNSBY. agreed that it wes pro- . per to arm the voltinteera with the latest weannns, but he strongly-objected-to the' expenditure on -the military, establishment in 'Wellington, and contended that it was [ not riece«?nry:for the.efficiency of our forces or-,thfi safely 'of our iatiabtj'-'io.-gp in-for so mucii glitter and ebow. A wnole reorgautsrfition of the whole staff system? was neceesary. ■ ',•...-,. Mr. SKD;D.aN said he had to defend a "' condition .of. things whidh had been forced upon him, whjeh wae:. in the besh intereets <»f the volunteer; fpree.' '■ He hoped in - time to have eyery poeition,.in. tbe-Defence force iilled by omcere of onir own training. Mr ELL'paid the complaint, waa: that the number of , permanent. officers -was being overdone.. • .'- Mr .3EDDON, in. reply to Mr James Allen, said the delay* m paying returned Contingentere were not due to the Defence .Department, .. •'•-,;••" After, a lengthy discussion, Mr .Mere-' - ditVs motion waa negatived by ,31 to &t> G. W. RUSSKUL moved.to .reduce item 13,* 'clerks; ,£2262, by £1JL74,., the, etnonnt of 'the increased vote .'as' compared with,lait yW- , ■. . ' ■'. . , H The motion -was lost .by 29 to . »£■, Mr SEDDON Said tbe> increase in the atnff blind been about., by, separating the civil and! military portion of the Defence Department,- which had been done at the instigation'of the Commandant. A motion by Mr G. W. RUSSELL to strike out item 8, clerks, £1311, was lost by 33 to 13. In reply to a question, Mr , SEDDON laid orders bad been given for a military school of Instruction to be held in the four large centre*. Mr. HORNSBY moved to reduce tie vote tor the Defence Department of £11,557 by £1000. This waa loet by 31 to 14, and the vote passed unaltered. The vote for permanent militia and vol* unteers, £121.297, also provoked a lengthy discussion. Mr HORNSBY moved to reduce it by £20,000. andeaid that reduction could be made withouF"7ri»pairing tlie efficiency of tbte Department. " At 8.30 a.m., Mr Hornsby's motion, was lost by 29 to 12, and the vote agreed,to without alteration. . .» The Hoiw* then adjourned till 9.00 A.m. for breaikfast. -« . The House resumed at 9.30 a.m. The Defence Department Estimates were further considered. The vote for «stoxe* and magazine*, £6308. paywd unaltered. On the yoU for South African Contingents. £30,000, Mr JAS. ALLEN asked ihe Premier when he would lay on the table the papers and-returns he had a*ked for relating to the troopship Tagtw. He went on to say that eince the vewel left Albany eight, "troopers had died, and he complained that the fact of the men being taken to the Bluff and subjected to the cold weather had catwred a fresh outbreak of sickness among the m«i on board. Mr SEDDON read a letter wgned by a large number of officers and men who came l>v the Taguj*. in which they stated that the reflections that had recently been oast an the Premier in this matter w»re unjustifiable, and added that the visit south »>ad nothing to do with the increased eicknesf", and that no man wiho had visited tnvercargill had suffered by doing so. Mont t>f the sickness occurred between Capetown and .niDMiy. when 70 per cent, of thooA on board vert in the doctor , * hand. Another letter stated that the edaim *

among the men of the Fourth and Fifth Contingent* was brought- on by the privations endured in Afrjfca. Mr Seddon remarked that these letters were unsolicited, and. had come as a moat welcome surprise to him. r * Mr ALLEN referred to the teleeram sent by the medical officer from Albany, in U whjch he said ifc would be very unwise to expose the troops to the cold voyage to the Bluff. He (Air Allen) contendld that the responsibility for disregarding that t message rested with the. Defence Minister." I he fact that the troops were in such bad coDdjtion made it all the more necessary - that heed should have been given to the 5 doctor« opinion. Mr SEDDON said .there wae no choice , !» ut *? take the Tagus to Port Chalmers. - hven if she had been brought to a northern port things would not have been beti ter, as a cold snap prevailed throughout , the colony. In fact, the weather at°that - ™ m ~ wa !«f Mrse at Wellington than the Bluff. When the sickness op the Tagus was reported to him he had ordered a. full i enquiry to be made, and everything possible was done for the men.* Mr ALLEN said he believed there was a warmer route for the Tagus, and it should have been taken. Mr ALLEN asked why the enquiry referred to by Mr Seddon into the allega- •" tions of overcrowding and sickness on the 1 Tagus had not been held. Mr SEDDON said the statement made 1 b~ the doctor and others had been qualified, | and he let the matter go.. Hβ was sorry > r.ow. and saw he should have insisted on the enquiry taking place. Sir JOSKPH WARD declared that no- , thing the.New Zealand Oovernment could have dons could have made a northern port the first place of c"all for the Tagus. Mr M'NAB ridiculed the idea that the -visit of the Tagus to the Bluff wae responsible for the deaths that subsequentiv occurred. T The discussion on the Tagus incident lasted until the luncheon adjournment. - Wednesday.. October 16. AFTERNOON SITTING. The Hou?e resumed at 2.30 o'clock. THE ESTIMATES.' The rote for the South African Contingents was immediately."agreed to on the voices. :,...., Miscellaneous services, £44,088. Mr H066 enquired whether, it watf definitely decided .io hold an annual Rifle Association meeting at.'Txentiuun'next February. He pointed out it was; New Zealand's turn next year for the ' Federal. team's match in which from the-Austra-lasian States would compete. It would be necessary to make early, arrangements for the meeting. He, would also like to know whether fche .Defence Department would "'run" the meeting or whether it would be held, as in .the past, under the auspices of the New' Zealand Jtifle Association. Mr MASSEY asked' for information as to the item "'Allowances to relatives of deceased members of the New Zealand Contingents, £500.'' ,Mr SEDDON replied that he intended to exercise discretion in regard to the claims that came before him. He had already dealt with some necessitous cases | that had been brought' under his notice. I The £500 vote , was for contingencies that I might arise. Of course, applicants must I show that there -was necessity for ance. Replying to Mr Hogg's ouestion, Mr SEDDON said it waa the intention of the Government to have future shooting gatherings held under the direct'supervision of the Defence Department. Mr HOGG urged" that a programme for the meeting in' February should be prepared as early as possible so as to-give Australian members time to consider it. Mr SEDDON promised to get the matter attended to as soon as possible. Mr PIRANI asked for details of the -item, "Allowances . for extra services connected with the despatching of contingents to South Africa, £800." Mr SEDDQN stated that-no portion of the money bad been improperly allowed, 1 ' and it would not? .-be; fur'to publish the names and fetalis,- but lie offered to give, the amounts. - ;- -_.' \- , Several members;.protested against the refusal of the Premier to give the' House details of the itenif, anJTa long discussion ensued.- - ' ' . *• Mr ATKINSONTnoved the -reduction- of the item by £5. . \ .'."■> This was lost .by 23 votes to 2, and thY item-pissed. - • -•.'•- • • ■"'. ? , Ori the item,; £160 for' the passage*', of Arinoarer-Seigeanta from England,* . MrrJPISHER wished to fcnow why the Goverainent, were importing' armourers when- tftere wera men, available' for the position • in; the *6Tony. ' ' -•Mγ' SEDDON said*.a compact having been entered- into, to*; impoit armourers with; * knowledge of up-to-oate arms, he could not ;be?put in the position of considering grievaicee of men who thought they were beiag , ;overlooked. _„,, M f" « 5?- : ask * d f< ? r details as tcf the £1000-item in connection'with- the expenses of the visits of 'the Imperial and Indian, troops. • ' ' : Mr\&iq>DpN said "he coulft not give detail*- of "expenditure 1 at.Veach place. The £1000. was deemed a-fair allocation, for the Defence Department,' as/tvpart from the £160 ohargebViri the Colonial Secretary's Department. \ - ■'* * "•- -^ Some -discussion 'took' plj&e : with regard itfm, e «'Pnrchase. f ol:;.piano for the Fifth ,'New- Zealand 'Contingent;"? Mr SEBDOtf "said,; ie *eWdered- -the equipment of the contingent was not, complete without a. piano. [ \. _~ A motion to strike, put the item was feet on'the- voicesi * '"-'.' ;. " "''. - The vote, for miscellaneous f services vwas then agreed-to, and- the totjo.l vote fdrthe . Defence" Department, ? £287,43W; .paased; «n the voices. • " *•'. j The House rose at 5.15. p.m. : I evening snnpsQ. . I Tlie House resumed at 7.30 o'clock. ! THE ESTIMATES. \ The Estimates were further considered. The next vote that for Class ' 12, working railways, total vote £1,152,000. , * Inu answer to Mr HERRIES Sir JOSEPH WARD said he intended « to bring dwwri a Railway Servants Classification Bill and Superanuation Bill to- : morrow, but did not expect to get the latter passed this session. The Bill would involve an increase of -t-28,000 in salaries over the whole coloav,, but would ( do, away with many anomalies that existed, t at present. ' < . ' , j *i3IT BUDDO and Mr LAURENSON i urged tbs Minister to consider the high i rate of freight, charged on the ChTisteirqrcLLyfteltoh.sline..,as compared., -with -tfa£se charged on other port Jinea. '<■ ■-. GUINNESS urged that in view^of f^' blow tixe Commonwealth,"tariff-aimed■ f i "New . Zealand products the importation < Australian-hardwood'-for raibray pur- J poses shoitfd. cease. Hβ afeo complained of J the constitution of the "Railway ■ Appeal * Board* urging i&at two members be ap- i pointed outside the Government service. * Sir JOSEPH WARD said he could not 4 at present obtain sufficient hardwood c sleepers in tlie colony, and would oeaseim- * porting them as soon as a supply could be obtained in the colony at a reasonable price. As to the alteration in the constitution of tne Appeal Board, he was not aware of any disvatisfacticn therewith, and - personally did mot approve such a, suesres- , • * * ■ CO I tion. • . f Mr R. McKBNZIE complained of the * large importation of railway material from a America, contending that the railway carriages were a rank failure, and that th« ]o- a eomotives were slop made, merely gummed * together. ' * slr MEREDITH and Captain RUf?9ELL n urged that the expenditure on the mainte- j nance of railvr&v* should come out of the revenue instead - of being charged to the capital account. Sir JOSEPH WARD denied -that tM coft of the maint«naec* of railways was t taken oirt of the capital accooat. It was j only wher* legitimate improvements and i extensions were made that ihe cost was { charged to the capit*! account. Mr G. W. RUSSELL wwhed to'know how .much railway revenue ir&* received t from other departments of the Public Ser- n vice. He also anked for an explanation as & to why the ratio of expenses u>. (he earn- a ings bad increased by four per cent, during t tut pan frre veere." - ' <" Sir, JOSEPH WARD claimed th«t the ti money earned by the railway* for the dif- c. ferent departments of the Public Service c were rightiy credited to rn-itway revenue. S The reaunn why th« ratio of *tp#nn#w u> the « earniagii bad ictcrtawd vca* the reduction of I

the hoars of labour, the increased pay to' the railway employees, the additional cost of coal, and the large concessions made ia the - carriage of produce. In reply to Mr MASSEY, .. I Sir JOSEPH WARD said every precau.- j tion was being taken to prevent the ocenrpf fires alongside the railway lines..; The total vote for working the Railway* Department then, passed unaltered.The vote for Public and School Buildings and Domains' (—46,750), and the vote for the Police Department (£122,258) passed unaltered practically without discussion. Department of " Lands and Survey, £127 130 Mr G. W. RUSSELL asked when it was proposed to . fill the vacant position of Surveyor-General. It was, he said, absolutely necessary that the position should be filled as soon as possible, as th« t>ur-veyor-General held a seat on the Boundaries Commission, and that the Commission had to consider the boundaries of the electorates after the census was concluded. Mr DUNCAN said the matter was under consideration, and the appointment would be announced in due course. Mr McLACHLAN moved that the item, "arrears of rent remitted £100," be reduced by £15, as a. protest .against the delay in appointing a Surveyor-General. Lost by 28 votes" to 2. Mr THOS. MACKENZIE moved that the item, "fees to members, of Waste Land Boards, £1500," be reduced by £2, as a direction to the Government that henceforth no member pt the House shall be appointed a member of a Land Board. This was carried ori the voices; and tie Cotal vote (as reduced) was agreed to. Valuation Department, £25,591 i Mr MEREDITH said there was a strong and growing feeling throughout the colony that local valuations should again r«vert to local bodies, who it was contended could carry out the valuations efficiently, and at a much less cost than the Government partmentMr G. J. SMITH and Mr LANG spoke to v similar effect. Mr MILLS said he had received very few objections from local bofiies throughout thft colony.' The Department ba&t; a very ardu--1 oils task: before it in endeavouripg to arrive at a fair and. reasonable valuation for the, whole of the colony; He believed in a year c-r two" the valuation of the colony would be completed, and after that there would be « very material reduction in the cost to local bodies. " 'lbe total vote passed, unalteredThe following classes then passed withoutamendment."ana practically without discussion:—Rates on Crown Lands, £80Q; New, Zealand State Forests Amount, £12,332; Land for Settlements Accounts, £7000; Public Trust Office, £24,128; Government Insurance Department, £50,936; Government Accident Insurance Account, £3505; Government Advances to Settlers Office, £88,514. This finish.?"* the Consolidated Estimates, Progress was then reported. ji.AJL PROPOSALS. Mr SEDDON announced "that the deba'e on the mail proposals Avould be taken to- x morrow afternoon. The House rose at 1.35. a.m.