CONCILIATION BOARD.

Press, Volume LIV, Issue 9737, 27 May 1897, Page 6

CONCILIATION BOARD.

DISPUTE IN THE PAINTING ffRADE.

The adjourned meeting of the Conciliation Board in the matter of the dispute between the Painters' Union and the masters took place yesterday at the Provincial Council Chambers. Tho members of the Board were Messrs H. J. Beswick (Chairman), J. A. Frostick and W. Williams.

Messrs Kelly, Fabian and Young appeared for the Union, and Mr C. Duggan, under written authority, represented twenty-one masters.

In answer to the Chairman it was stated that what applied to one firm applied to tho whole.

The three firms who had not signed the authority were Messrs Gapes and Son, G. Mazoy, and Moir and Joughin. Mr KeUy eaid that in the matter of overtime tho Union had decided to abide by its demand for overtimo to be paid at the rate of time and a half. The object was to reduce overtime ac much ac possible. The Union held, in the matter of wages, that *ny person over twenty-one years of age engaged in the trade should be paid Is an hour. Auckland paid 9s Id, Wellington 9s 4d, Danedin 9a and Christchurch Be. The men took strong exception to the introduction of men each as fanners, labourers, ex-policemen, &c, into the trade at 59 a day or less to do the rough work and the btma fide workmen were left unemployed. On principle, however, the Unionists could not accept such wages. Respecting these "introduced hands," the Union had conceded that young men who had been continuously working for two years at the trade and were not more than nineteen years when they began should be permitted to continue for another two years, under agreement, in constant employment with their then employer, the agreements to absolutely terminate at the end of that two years. As to the older men, the Union provided that men over fifty years of age might work for less than Is an hour. The masters showed a lot of consideration for the young, the strong and the cheap, but ho never noticed them having any consideration for the old. Aβ the Act was one to encourage the formation of Industrial Unions and Associations, he held that employers must, on receiving applications for employment, give preference to Union men. The Chairman pointed out that in the bootmakers' dispute the Court had given an interpretation of the Act, that, all things being equal, Unionists should have preference. The Board would be ruled by that decision. Mr Kelly continued that as far as the collection of the funds was concerned it wan not asked that employera should actually collect them, but should offer no obstacle to the collection. The Union proposed electing shop stewards to collect the funds on pay days after work hours, and the Union did not wish such men interfered with.

In answer to the Chairman, Mr Duggan said he believed the employers would offer no objection, nor would they put any obstacle in the way. Mr Kelly asked for the decision of the Board on the matter of the legality of apprentices' agreements. The Union did not look with favour on verbal agreements. They considered apprentices should be constantly employed. In answer to the Chairman Mr Duggan said that the employers wished the existing agreements not interfered with. Mr Kelly said he could not agree to that, as he must know the ages and number of persons affected. The Chairman asked that the employers would supply the Board with the necessary information.

Mr Kelly proceeded that the Union considered apprentice wagea were quite low enough at 6s per week for the first year, 10b the eecond year, 15s the third year, 20s the fourth year, and 26s the fifth year. The Union would be eatisfied if the employers legally indentured the apprentices in the future. The Union interfered.ii) the matter of wages for the sake of young men themselves and to prevent them from becoming dissatisfied with their conditions. In answer to the Board he said that if there were a guarantee that all apprentices would be indentured he would be prepared to give way in the matter of wages. Mr .Duggan said the employees were Willing to indenture-all apprentices, as well %a those now tinder verbal agreement. In .the matter of overtime .the. employers felt It would not be fair to those who were compelled to work done after hours to charge the rates the Union demanded. If that demand would . stop overtime the employers would!agree to it, but it would not- Aβ certain work had to be done after hours, the employers considered time and a quarter up to 10 p.m. and time and a half afterwards was fair and reasonable. For holidays they were prepared to pay time and a quarter from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. and time and a half afterwards. The employers had been asked and consented to' pay 8s a day to competent men. To meet the nonoorapetent men who had drifted into the trade, . and for whom something should be done, the employers suggested that they should be required to undergo a two years' term to better qualify themselves. If competent men were only worth Is an hour these were certainly not worth as much, but if a minimum rate had been fixed it would have had a tendency to bring down the maximum. In answer to the Board, he agreed to a suggestion for the appointment of a local Board to decide on such questions. It appeared to him that if ft man had only been lour years at the trade he could not belong to the Union. He did not think that more than two-fifths of the men at work at the trade were Unionists. As to apprentices, the employers were prepared to indenture all apprentices, those for the remainder of their term who had hitherto been tinder verbal agreement Mr Frostick suggested a rule for the establishment of alocal Board of Conciliation, to whom should be referred minor questions, &c, and for providing for men who had been two and a-haif years in the trade completing an apprenticeship. Mr Duggan ofteredno objection, but MiKelly strongly opposed such a rule. The case of Messrs .Gapes and Son was next taken. Mr Gapes said he had no Union men in his employ and had no dispute with his.men. He was, however, prepared to fall in with most of what the other employers had agreed to. He considered that the Union could not meet the demand for qualified men, and again he was of opinion that the Union included unqualified men, who were not worth 83 a day. He was prepared to pay 8a or 9s a day for competent men. but considered that wages should be graded from that. He also* pointed out that the men themselves were competitors in the open market, He objected to the restriction sought to ba placed on the employers in the matter ot employing only Union men. As to the difficulty in- getting men, he observed, that he had advertised for some and could get none. Mr Kelly, in reply, said that an employer would only be inconvenienced for a day or so for the want of men if he would pay 8s a day. As to competency, he held that Is an hour was little enough to pay any man at any branch of tho trade. Mr Fabian said it had been averaged that painters worked eight months in the year, and the rate would thus be about 30b or 35s a week.

The case of Mc Mazey was called, but he did not appear. In the case of Messrs Moir and Joughin, it was explained that they had frequently expressed themselves in accord with the Union statement.

In answer to the Chairman, Mr Kelly said many men, unable to find employment, •oteeed the market in competition with the fines.

Mr Duggan said there was no objection to men taking private jobs ; tbe objection was to competition in price, not in trade. The Board adjourned until 3 p.m. "P^ 1 ***■ Board resuming, the Chairman ■aid the Board had roughly drawn up the "commendations, which would be put into proper form, and filed in the Court in due oourae. In the statement as submitted to UHt Board the words *'conditions of *J"»M read « conditions of employS^L-. Rule }' ****u>B to hours of emfiKH wonM tbe *"*»« as section A 12 Z?J?* t ? men V rate 2 would be the Bamo B ' V 1 ? 3 yronlA t» to the eflect **** *»*«*» of the age of twenty-one years %!S£B£EAi tX ??V' tboae who w«» aftershould bo paid not less than Is w*^EwoSedfJt 0 i d P rovid a that men ?° yeara cwrtinaously fc J? Ore years i be alloweitwo rnle 5 >

thaji Is per hour being . paid to lees competent men, such lesser sum to be agreed upon by a Board, consisting of representatives of the masters and men, and such sum to be not less than be per day. Rule 6 would provide for overtime, %fter the hours specified in the statement, being paid time and a quarter for the first four hour" and time and a half afterwards. The same conditions to apply to holidays (rule 7). Rule 8 would provide for Union men, when qualified, being given preference, and added to this would be that employers should give twenty-four hours' notice before employing any non- Union men. Rule 9—Employers to place to obstacle in the way of the collection of Union funds after working hours. Rule 10—Employment of apprentices to be same as rule 20 in the general rules; the proportion of apprentices to be left in abeyance for the present. Apprentices under verbal agreement should continue under a proper agreement, subject to the approval of the Board. Rule 11 to be the same as the provision in the statement for " unforeseen circumstances." Rule 12, as to suburban and country work, would be the same as applied to the carpenters. The Board proposea that these recommendations should remain in operation for twelve months, and asked the representatives to inform them by Saturday as to their decision on the question of proportion of apprentices. If both sides could agree the recommendations would be filed on Monday next.