SPEECHES.

Press, Volume II, Issue 43, 8 March 1862, Page 4

SPEECHES.

OF SIR. GEORGE GREY AND TIIK WAIKATO.-!. Our extracts last week from the ' Maori Messenger ' broke off in the mitlclle of an address by Sir George Grey to the Waikatos at Taupari. After discussing the various points of difference between them and the Government, he proceeded to explain his intended

policy, as follows : — Now, I will tell you what I propose to do for the future. 1 do not mean to &ay, that in as far as institutions for the maintenance of law and order have not been established in tho country among you, your interests have not been overlooked. You must have seen that the Europeans have been allowed to make rules and laws for themselves, and those who make them have been paid for doing so; while the Maories have been left unprovided for, and those that did make laws were ill paid. I do not feel that I am without blame in the matter myself. When I was Governor here formerly, I ought to have seen further ahead, and what civilization would lead to and require. I propose therefore now, that wherever people live in considerable numbers, the island should be divided into districts, and Ilunangas appointed to maize laws for them, and to determine if roads are to be made, and what share of the expenses the people of • the district will have to pay. They will also determine the ownership and boundaries of land, and if it may be sold, and by whom—and if spirits may be sold, and under what regulations. In fact, they will have to make laws on all subjects concerning their own interests, and when these are sent to mc and I have consented to them, they will be binding alike both on Maori and European. Native magistrates will also be appointed, and people under them to administer the laws; and all these people that are employed will have salaries, and be paid regularly on the first of each month | pike Europeans. You will thus see by what I have said, that j the way I intend to put down ted is by -putting up (pod, not j by employing force. One thing I have omitted to tell you. j hi each district a medical man will be stationed, and salaries I will be provided for three native clergymen and schoolmasters, I and for each "hanu" that wishes to put aside land for the support of a clergyman I will endeavour to get a minister, j One of tho great evils has been, that there has been no j opening for the young men, Chiefs and others, who have been J highly educated. Now I make all these openings, clergymen, j magistrates, doctors, etc., and a young Chief may become I one of these, and not have to go to work (manual labour) on bis land like a common man. but live like a gentleman. Now don't you say that I am come here to conquer and kul you ; ! I have c<nie to conqiuT and kill you t*>- tcitit gova. Now I :

have done, and if any of you want to ask c "■ " — what I have said, lam here to answer. eßtl() ns abo,, t Ruihana (Ngatitipa): There are three thi -, Governor—three things to think about. Ie • of the in my presence, (or path.) Leave the them : although it cuts my heart, leave bini *° because goodness has appeared. Consider cnueuJ* goodness and peace; he lias come from abroad, h w " f God, and from the Queen. Now here is we understand the Scriptures. Look at this wort o*l0* 1 M goodness; do away with evil; look you at th t goodness be established, and afterwards think'„ ft *"* His system is laid down, and it is for us to oimn,- n , ** it. 1 shall not be destroyed by you, but rathe all. Let this be clear, let it be light. R ise llp J* **** ** Kmnuxi (Tainui) : Welcome, O goodness, , come Governor, the father of what is good Wei • and the gospel. Bring hither the words of mjl .T* m loVe time be long. peace, letnott^ Karaka Tomo (Ngatipou) : Welcome in goodness,, ~ There is no other word ; all the torero is about J* * AramaKaraka (Ngatihine): Welcome, welcol klove ;it is here being kept; old tilings are not foroott ? |Te Hkrewini (Ngatimahuta) : Welcome ; wh( T , good or evil. Your words are good. You say in 7 that you arc a Governor for both races, the Pakeha T Maori. According to my thought, the Taranaki must be carefully adjudicated. Th ere . | many things lying under the "three things." Now if"! the sin is ours, judge us ; if you see that the offence wiTf ** you, enough, you will know that it is your own. you see that I slay a Pakeha travelling on the roaj, m in e •" tiie offence ; if the Pakeha kills a man, yours is the sin. i* to the property taken at Taranaki, let us be judged for it If you see that the offence was ours, judge us; if the off from you, from Pakeha, we shall know that it is Pakeho. Waikato (Ngatitipa) : Welcome, Governor, hi tho W and kindness of God. Welcome in peace. Come and your garments over mc • it is in affection that I say this v.ord to you. Ido not look at the length of our discourse; when it is aii collected, it will be goodness, peace. Tii'ene (Ngatimahuta) : What I shall speak about is tlw king, the Hag, and tho plunder. You formerly were t_ Governor of this island; and as for us, we were with yon. Now the things you gave us at that period were Magistrate After your departure, we considered that we should raise up a king for ourselves, to stop blood shedding and repress the evils of the land, and put an end to ware. For two years this korero has been maintained. W bile the magistrates which you speak about were still residing, men were selling land throughout the island. We thought, New Zealand will begone, We saw the land which had gone, covered with cattle, and horses, and sheep, and the mon employed fencing the land against cattle, Sec. We then said, let tho land be withheld We (Waikato) began it, and others joined. We saw that the elder brother was quarrelling with the younger; and so one man was appointed to suppress righting, and stop tbe blood. Land was bought at Taranaki : we heard it was bought improperly, and presently disturbances arose about it. We held two runaugas to consider it, in tho course of which we heard that .Taranaki was destroyed Afterwards came the news about the Ngatirunnui, and here we were perplexed We had not heard that the Pakeha was fighting at Taranaki until the soldiers had gone aboard the ships : then we heard. Nov?to offence was from the Pakeha ; hence we said, we are strangers to one another. This is our thought ;we are divided, youou one side, and we on the other. Three things we worked us ! after you left us ; tbe gospel, the king, and the flag. We did not know it was wrong till after it was set up; then, for tta first time, we knew it was considered wrong. I hot," say, work gently. Enough about that This is another tlung, about the roads. Formerly yon conunanded them, and they have been withheld by us. The roads are not simply fc" fetching food from a man's farm ; throughout tbe island, it is this that creates fear. At Taranaki, the road being there, your guns reached the pa. This is our fear, lest that strange cart (gim carriage), the cart of terror, should travel on it. But for this fear, roads would have been allowed long »S P - Enough of that. Now, it was we (Waikato) who established the king. I have not heard tiiat the roads arc stopped tip; tho great road of the Waikato river is not stopped, tne Pakehas and the Maories are travelling upon them > the w " of the Union Jack alone is closed. The words of Poland yours, are still held : wo adhere to the advice of Pota* 8 * "Do not do anything, do not fight, do not be »# with the Pakeha, hut be kind to him." Waik»« adheres to these words. Our runaugas are sim * own, some are good, and some are bad. At the the only thing we will look at is goodness, that it joined and made fast. If we rise up against you, be the result? Formerly we, the natives, were *jp •_• tribes : but now if we go to the other end of tbe ista»4 ' still 1 (we are now one people). Let tho error, l sought out of our conversation during this day. His Excellency :If any tribe refuse to have your .• will you attack thorn?-1 have not yet heard of tue any tribe within this island. . j s ),jll Until yon give mc a fair answer to that qua» _ think you refuse my words oi peace.—This not know t'.iat some are mrUidu (of the it, ami th-.-n for the first time shall I say, we (' k ... i „i- , tlipm air*" 1 r' a divided people. But we will not nir.U- them thtiin) - _ i-villvou attack '«■ If any tribe sells land to us (Liiropeaiii) *vi m —We will not consent: we and our land arc wi we shall, therefore, withhold it. for *<*•'« h;;%e pledge (pauia, 1 .

If the man wishing to sell his land has not pledged it to tbe king, will you attack him?—No, lie would be a stranger to us. But if he had and afteru a:\ls altered Ins mind ?—The land will he withheld, because he will have been imposing upon us. What, by force ?—No, we will not strike (iirst) ; but if he sees us withholding it, and attacks us, then we shall strike. No, he will not do that—l am thinking of bis deceit to us. If you hear that we hold that land (in trust), do not buy it. What do you mean by that ?—lf a man has given us (the jjinrr) his land (to withhold); and he says, Return mc my land, that I may sell it for the purpose of acquiring other property, then we shall quarrel. I have nothing to do between you and the man who agreed to give you his land.—Do not consider mc, as a man, but consider the word. If you were my servant and wished to leave mc, should y on be always bound ?—lu my opinion, what I say is right; it is not we who say that we will go as men for him, it is he who comes to us. What are you going to do to a man who wishes to sell his ] an d ?_We withhold it for his own use ; not allow him to sell his land : but we shall not assail and kill him ; we shall not do as you Pakehas do. Te Teira's land was held back by To Ramntaake, it was held, it was continued to lie held, and you went to make war. 0 Governor, I also wish to speak about the Ngatiruanui. We have heard of the error of Ngatiruanui in stopping up tho road against the Pakehas. If it wen: said, that we (Waikato) the cause of it, I should have to think about that when I went homo. I have only just heard that the Bishop was injured (stopped by the Taranaki?), and I shall say to them, let the Pakeha pass. How about the stolen property, the cattle and horses 7—My name for that is '".spoils of war" (or "spoils lawfully taken in war." How about the land of the Europeans on which the Maories have gone? —Is there no Maori land at Waitara in the possession of the Pakeha ? What land do you mean ? Do you mean tbe block that was fought about?—l enquire of you, is there no Maori land at Waitara in the Pakeha 1 s possession 7 What land do you mean 7—Waitara. If you mean the dispute land an investigation will take place —That is well; let also the other land, Tataraimaka, be investigated. We can have no dispute about the Tataraiiuaki block. That is ours. Let the man who takes it be tried. That is a good plan for lands which ai-j disputed ; let a trial take nlace. Under the new regulations, the Runaugas will hold such investigations. If there is any Maori land at Waitara occupied by the Pakeha, let the cane be tried ; and if there is any laud of the Europeans occupied by the natives, let it be also tried. We have heard that soldiers will be sent on the road (Tataraimaka) ; it is that which creates fear. Keep it open. You had better distinctly understand, that if tho people along the .sea coast interfere with that block, or use threatening language, 1 will place soldiers there.—What, because they hold fast their design ? I will now return to the plunder. Plunder is plunder: a man is a man : and death is death. ! f that question has to be settled by the Runanga, it is \\-( 11. I do not promise to bp satisfied without the stock is given 115). I do not think 1 shall be satisfied. 1 must have an enquiry before I can say what I will do. I have not yet enquired about that plunder, that I might say whether the men who took the plunder are right or otherwise. I can only say that if I catch any one with stolen property, he will have to be tried. I am told they, the thieves, keep the stock openly. —If any of the plunder is still remaining well; let it be returned. I will go down and investigate it all quietly. I shall not be in a hurry. — Perhaps some of us (Waikato.) If any cattle, horses, or other property lie still remaining, some of it belongs to ns. Is it about what is left you are spcakin/' ? I understand that the Ngatiruanuis are in quite a different nositiun to others. They killed women and children, and burnt houses, and plundered. I have not enquired into the matter, but from what I hear, if 1 were a friend, as you are, going to speak to the Ngatiruanui people, I should advise them to give up what they have got, and a piece of land iv compensation; and to say, now we have done this, let us live in IK-ace, as we have made reparation. I only say what I would «10. I have not enquired into the circumstances. Even in distant parts of the world I beard of the conduct of the Ngatmianuis, and felt ashamed at such things being done by Maories. Tipexe then laid his lainha at the Governor's feet, and said, I"ok here. You say that there is no cause ; I say there is a cause. Will it (a vibration if a blow ia struck) stop at the tongue in the head of my taiahn 7 Therefore I have thought your saving (words) would reach to the other end (meaning ttiat the Ngatiruanuis had fought beeau.se the Ngatiawas had h'ien attacked, aud that in like manner peace should be in-anted t'»all alike.) His Exceu.kncv : I do not like to say any thing against »"&»)ndiict.--But we are speakinir about that time (on" that subject) 1 do not like to say any thing about that as an excuse. I S! wmld bay ;; to say something very severe about killing women and children.-Very well, the subject shall nut he pursued if • V "U My so ; I have, said the same. j 1 have B i mil i y told you what I should advis... -That is right n »y thought at the present time is the ,ame. Are v'our I 'i'.iesti.ma ended? * I kin,'?'"~ TlleU * wi '' ask a lotion : Are you uppos-d to my • dini„t C are al».ut him. But I think which will lead t-. j svTT" ■ uask n, y *-T-"«oii as a friend I should say, -M' it. It w,ll be stopped by su.h means a.; I have adapted, i ■U «t wul J,. ollt . Rut j ; , dv;sc , you to bto ,_ . t _ j fj>ap jt wi]] j

lead to quarrels and so forth.—Behold ! if you say that it (the kmg) is a road which will lead to future difficulty, the error is our own : that is right. You have board the reason why he (the king) was set up : if evil arise, it will fall upon ourselves (or we shall be the cause of it). But if it (the king movement) is brought to nought by your plans, well and good. You say what is the king to you ? We say it is a thing of importance to us. And the reason why we say so is thin, that we have seen the good of it; the quarrels of the Maories amongst themselves have for the last two years diminished, therefore I say, it evil arise from it in future, we ahull have caused it (brought it on ourselves). Listen, formerly both races were living together, our plans were the same and the work of this island remained unbroken. We worked together and talked together at that period, about the evils of the land ; imtil the.separation took place which we have been speaking about. Then, for the first time, I saw it was well. And now by means of it many evils that have arisen haye been put down without war); and, therefore, I say it (the"king) is'an important thing to us. Now, 1 ask you, "Are you altogether opposed to my king ?" If you consent to my question, we shall then work quietly, because we are not the chief cause of the king ; whereas with you is tbe final decision as to your own system. So ] ask you, " Are yon altogether opposed to our king ?" that you may say whether you are so or not. If you ask mc as a friend, I tell you I think it a very bad thing.-I say, it has not arisen from ns (JPaikato), but from the whole island : but my question still remains unanswered. I ask, in order that the word of condemnation, or otherwise, may be spoken out. (Pill you condemn it in anger (with war) ? Rather let him (the king) stand .- if you will let him alone be will fall of himself. I think that each chief, in his own tribe, should, with his Runauga, come under tho Governor ; then they could all work with inc. —Leave that, we will convey it to the people. We are not going to pluck out tho various tribes, i.e., for their adherence ; if a man comes to join us, we will tell him to stop away. This will be our plan of scooping (gaining adherents); if a tribe conic to us we shall say, the system is with us (Waikato). This will be right, for they will have come of themselves. Letters have reached us from Hauraki, and we have answered ; letters from Tauranga, which we have answered ; letters from ylhuriri, which we have answered: we have received as pledges (of adhesion to the king), from Hauraki £10, from Tauranga £ IT); also further on from-lhuriri, from roaangahau, te JPaiio, and Wairarapa: all of their own accord. From Heretaongo, we havo received a pledge (or payment) of £300. From IPhangamu, we have also received loiters. With regard to Rangitaake JFiremu Kingi, he fetched our llag as a protection for bis land : and now he lie is residing in IPaikato. As to the Ngapuhi Ido not know about them: but one man of the Rarawas, a relative of mine has been to us. At the present time, whilst both races are at peace, perhaps we shall be divided, or perhaps we shall be united. Let goodness, peace, aud love be joined together; that maybe done now, and 1 say therefore, proceed gently (cautiously), iv working out the plans you (the Governor) have spoken about. The only thing that remains dark (unsettled) is the king: your own plan is to unite us all. Let the several Runaugas send up laws for my approval. The laws so assented to would be laws for Europeans as well as Maories.—Enough ; your word has been given us; leave 113 to work. This is all at present. Do you know what I want to see? These Runangas and people prosperous and happy, with their chiefs, clergy, artisans, etc. : farms springing up, cattle and wealth abundant. I want to have cars that can hear for mc, eyes that can sec, hands that can work for mc 111 every part of the island , I want to forget the past, with all its shortcomings, and begin again afresh. (To be Continued.)