CROWD WATCHES

Auckland Star, Volume LXX, Issue 90, 18 April 1939, Page 10

CROWD WATCHES

There was a sprinkling of women in the throng which crowded the public portion of the Court when the doors were opened a few minutes before 10 o'clock. The queue which had formed in the street below surged through the doorway and up the stains, filling the rear of the Courtroom. They had several minutes to wait, however, before they heard the opening of the case which they had obviously come to watch. The ordinary list of cases was taken first. There was a hush in the crowded Court when the namee of Gordon Robert McKay and James Arthur Talbot were called, and all eye* were' fixed on the dock when the two accused stepped into it.

Detective-Sergeant P. J. Nalder prosecuted.

The accused McKay was represented by Mr. R. C. J. Sandereon, while Mr. J. Terry appeared for Talbot. Before the case was proceeded with, Detective-Sergeant Nalder asked that the arson charge be amended to read "the property of Florence Jeseie Thomas." There wae no objection to this, and the magistrate granted the application.

Mr. Terry asked that all witnesses, with the exception of DetectiveSergeant* Aplin and Tretheway, also Detective-Sergeant Alford, of Sydney, should be ordered to remain out of Court and beyond hearing during the hearing of the evidence. This request wae granted. Mr. Terry then made a further application, which, he said, might be an unusual one. He aeked the magistrate to invoke the powers under Section 143 of the Justice of the Peace Act concerning the place where examination is taken other than in an open Court. Counsel asked that the publication of the evidence of the preliminary hearing should be prevented. Non-publication would follow ac a result of the exclusion of all persons capable of giving a report of the proceedings. ° The magistrate declined the application.

Shine's Death. The first witness, railed at 10.50 a.m., was Gertrude Eleanor Stiirt, a nurse on the staff of the Auckland Public Hospital. She recalled Patrick Henry Shine being admitted as a patient on January 7 last. Hβ died at 6.40 a.m. on February 8. She was night nurse in the ward for ten days prior to hie death. Detective Sergeant Nalder: How would you describe his condition? Was he ekin and bone?—Yee, he was. He was thin and emaciated. Witness said she kid Shine out after death. Shine had no teeth in when he died. It was the custom to plug the drainage parts of the body with cotton wool, including the mouth. The cotton wool went right to the top of the throat. A larger quantity of cotton wool was used because Shine had no teeth. It would be about a handful of cotton wool in several pieces. Robert Victor Stockwell, laboratory orderly at the Auckland Hospital, who sometimes acted as an attendant at the hospital mortuary, said he was in . attendance at the mortuary on FebruVl* ? i?et 1 } he handj d over the body of toderUke *° Stephen Wttlter Tilton, R£d l fl?f rt T e ShSne ' retired ' of 13 > r * th otP±M?Jn yna ' easd he was a brother i iSiii

brother, he went to Tilton and Opie's, funeral directors, rooms in Great North Road, where he saw the body of his brother. Witness saw Mr. Tilton place the lid on the casket and screw down the lid. The body of his brother was in the casket. Immediately afterwards witness attended a service in the chapel where the casket was, and then followed the funeral cortege to Waikumete Cemetery. He saw the casket lowered into the grave in the portion set aside for returned soldiers. After the funeral he saw the gravediggers commence to fill the grave in.

Asked how he would describe his brother just before he died, witness said: "Hβ was very thin and emaciated. I have never seen a man so thin."

Burial Recalled. "I recollect the afternoon of Wednesday, February 8," said Stephen Walter Tilton, "when I went to the hospital and received the body of Patrick Henry Shine. I took the body to my mortuary chapel, where it remained until the following day." Detective Sergeant Nalder: Did you notice anything?— Yes. I noticed a string of rosary beads with a cross attached around the neck of the deceased. I could not say if there wae a ring on the finger." Witness said he screwed the lid of the coffin down on February 8. The screws were similar to one produced by Det.Sergeant Nalder. There wae no clay in the casket when witness screwed it down. There was a name plate on the casket. It wae the one produced. It contained the name and regimental number of Patrick Henry Shine and the date of death, also the letters "R.1.P." Immediately after the casket was screwed down it was placed on the hearse, witness accompanying it to the cemetery. After the ceremony the casket containing the body was lowered into the grave in the Catholic portion of the soldiers' and sailore' part of the cemetery.

Witness Tells About Graves

A monumental mason, Charles Caradus Tyler, said he remembered the burial of two returned eoldiers, Shine and Cherry, on February 9 in the soldiers' portion of the cemetery. "With others I was working quite close to Cherry's grave," witness said. "Both graves had been dug by 11 a.m. that day. , ?

Did anyone approach you?— Yes, a man fame from the main gate and approached me.

Do you know that man? Can you see him in Court?— Yes, he is that man.

Witneee pointed to the accused Me Kay.

Did McKay speak to you?— Yes. He said, "Where is the soldier being buried to-day?" I said, "Which one?" He said, "Are there two?" I said, "This is Cherry's. The other one is being buried this afternoon." I indicated each grave to him. From where I was standing you could see Shine's freshly-dug grave.

Mr. Orr Walker: Wae Shine's name mentioned ?—No.

Detective-Sergeant Nalder: Was there any other conversation?—No, except that he made a remark about it being a nice day. On April 15, witness said, he attended an identification parade at the Central Police Station. From a number of men lined up there he identified McKay as the man who had been talking to him in th<j Waikumete Cemetery. Other Witnesses. Frank Woodward, a labourer employed by the Auckland City Council on the maintenance staff at Waikumete Cemetery, said that occasionally he dug graves at the cemetery. On February 9 he was present at Shine's funeral, the burial taking place at 2.30. Witness assisted in lowering the casket into the grave. He waited at the graveside until those attending the funeral had left, and he then assisted in filling in the grave. When this was done the lid on the casket was properly screwed down. There were two burials in the soldiers' portion of the cemetery that dav, Cherry'e in the morning and Shine's in the afternoon. Shine's grave was dug the night before. After Cherry's funeral Shine's was the only grave open in the soldiers' portion.

First police witness to be called was Victor Cyril Nay lor, attached to the fingerprint department at Auckland. Last month, he said, in company with Detective-Sergeants Trethewey and Aplin, he visited a house at 17, Ash Street, Avondale, occupied by Eileen, Hearting. He produced photographs' showing views of the house and a garage and a close view of the garage with the doors clostd.

Maud Selina May Bishop, of 14, Hardinge Street, said she let rooms at her houee. She recollected Monday, February 6 last, when a man named Jones called at her house. He came that day with the two accused, Talbot and McKay, and eaid they had just arrived on a boat.

Witness showed them a double room containing two single beds downstairs. They agreed to accept the room, which they took for a week at £1 per week. This did not include a cup of tea. % Witness said she did not take much" notice of their belongings. Talbot paid for the room. He asked if there was any rebate if they did n.ot want to stay the week. Witness said there was no rebate. McKay was not present when Talbot asked this question.

"Going to Piha." Later that week McKay mentioned hie teeth to witness, who knew that on the Saturday morning, February 11, he went to a dentist. She saw him that morning after he had his teeth out. Nothing was said about his condition. Witness made McKay some bread and milk and took it into his room.

Detective-Sergeant Nalder: Wae there any conversation? —Yee, he said they were going to Piha and that Talbot would be coming back, but not him. You have not seen McKay eince? — No, not until the other day. When did you next see Talbot?—On the Sunday, the day after, when Mr. Jonee brought him back. Wae anything eaid?—Mr. Jones told me about the fire. He said ihe gentleman had been burnt. He was very upset, and eo was I. Did Talbot eay anything?—No, nothing at all. Did Talbot continue to stay at your jplace?—Yee, lie took a geom apetake.

A clerk in the Customs Department at Auckland, Wilfred Guild Lowrie, produced a declaration by a person arriving in New Zealand eijrned by Gordon R. McKay and J. A. Talbot. Witness had searched the records and found that there was only one person of the name of Gordon R. McKay and J. A. Talbot arrived by the Mariposa on February 6.

Experience Of Dead Man's Son

Trevor William Shine, a single man employed on a fishing vessel, and son of the late Patrick Henry Shine, said that, prior to going to the hospital his father had resided at 87, Wellesley Street West. At noon on February 9 witness went to this address, where his stepmother was residing. He was carrying a wreath at the time, and when ha arrived at the house he saw a friend of his named Allan Viskovich, who was with another man. They were in front of No. 87, Wellesley Street.

Detective-Sergeant Nalder: Do you now know who that other man was?

Witness: Yes, it was the accused McKav.

"I was told by Viskovich," he added, "that the man wished to speak to me. After going upstairs with the wreath I came down and McKay put out his hand and said, "Are you Mr. Shine?"

"I replied, "Yes. , He then said, 'I've come to express my sympathy.' I shook hands with him. He wanted to know if my father ever suffered from bad teeth.

"He said something before that—'Did your father serve in the Australian Forces?' I replied, 'Yes. , He then said, 'I knew your father many years ago. I don't know if he's the same man or not. Did he ever have any trouble with his teeth?' I replied that I did not know.

"Enough Worry Now." "He then asked me if he had had any out lately, soven or eight, or some number like that. I said I did not know/ He asked me if he had any false teeth, and I told him he had better go upstairs and see my mother, Mrs. Madge Shine. He replied, 'Oh, I won't cause any more trouble. You've got enough worry and trouble now.' "I said, 'Why not come out with me to the funeral?' and he replied, 'No, I'll go out in a car and I'll see you out there. , " Detective-Sergeant Nalder: Was any mention made of when your father died?— Yes, he asked when my father died. I told him he died the day before. Was there any mention of McKay's name? Did he tell you who he was?— No. I asked him his name and he said, "Never mind, we won't worry about that." Was there anything else?— Yes, he backed away from me. He seemed pretty anxious. He said, "Cheerio, ,, and went down towards Freeman's Bay. He was wearing a dark suit and darkened glasses—horn-rimmed, similar to that pair (produced). Did you see him at the funeral that day?—No, I was looking for him, but did not see him. Witness said he attended an identification parade at the Auckland Police Station. From a line-up of men he picked out the accused McKay as the man he had been speaking to outside his late father's home. Witness also said the date of his father's death was published.

"Sedan Driven 182 Miles"

! Her recollection of the two accused coming to the office of Drive Yourself, Limited, at 4, Lower Albert Street, where she was employed as a clerk, was described by Arthea Graven. She said they wanted to hire a car for a week, and an agreement was made out between the firm and Gordon P. McKay. Thie agreement showed that McKay hired a car at 9.45 a.m. on Friday, February 10, for one week.

"The car was taken out of the garage when hired," said witness. "The speedometer at this time showed a mileage of 11,229 miles. The car was returned to the garage by the accused Talbot at about 9.30 a.m. on February 13, the meter then showing 11,411 miles. It had been driven 182 miles. I noticed small holes burnt in the roof of the car. We had the damage assessed at £3 5/."

Miss Graven added that on March 30 she attended an identification parade at the .police station and identified the accused McKay as the man who had hired the car. It was a two-door 8 h.p. sedan, of fawn colour with red upholstery and black mudguards.

Saw Bundles In Her Garage

Eileen Hearting, widow, of 17, Ash Street, Avondale, said she was in a confectionery shop at Rosebank Road on February 10 about 3 p.m. She recognised one man who came into the shop as the accused McKay. She heard him aek Mrs. Thompson if she knew anyone who had a garage to let. Mrs. Thompson said a friend of hers was in the back of the shop and she had a garage. She called witness out into the shop.

"He asked me if I would show him where it was," said Mrs. Hearling. "I went out with Mr. McKay to a small car outside on the road. I saw a man sitting at the driving wheel. I now see him. It is Mr. Talbot. At that time I did not know their names. I got into the rear seat with Mr. McKay. I directed them to my house, which is just around the corner from Rosebank Road. On arrival we all got out of the car and had a look at the garage at the back of the house but within view of the road. There were two double doore on the garage, but no window. I told them they would need a bolt and a padlock. McKay mentioned that it was very hard to get places or baches. McKay said he would let me know. They left together."

Detective-Sergeant Nalder: When did you eee them again?— After 6 o'clock the same evening when they came to my door. Mr. McKay said they had come back, having decided to take the garage. He asked how much I would charge and I said half-a-crown a week. McKay handed this to me.

Wae any mention made of cominw in at night?—McKay asked me if" it would matter what time they came in at night, as they thought they would be fairly late. I told them that it would not make any difference to us. McKay asked me if I minded if they left something in the garage and I told them I did not mind so long as they left it locked so that the children would not get in.

Witness added that she went inside, leaving the two accused in the garage. She did not notice the garage again that night except that she saw the doors were closed. There was a padlock on the door, but ehe could not say if it was locked.

Gap Between Doors. "Next morning I looked at the garage about 8 o'clock when I went out," said witness. "The doors were padlocked. When they are locked there i* a gap about an inch wide between them. I looked through between the doors. The car was not in the garage. Detective Sergeant Nalder: What did you see ? —I saw a long . bundle wrapped up in sacking. How long would the bundle be?— Quite five feet long. Did you notice whether there was anv stitching ?—Yet, it was stitched up. * Could you liken it to anything?—At first it seemed that it might be bedding rolled up. How close was this bundle to the garage doors?— One end would be fairly close to the door, and it came out from the wall a little at the top end. Did you notice anything else?— Yes, a smaller bundle, but I couldn't see what it was as it was covered up with a sack. It was on the other side of the garage. Did you see anyone there that day ?— Yes, I was down taking in some clothes about 3 o'clock when I saw the car back out in to the street. •

Wflio was driving?—McKay was driving. He must have seen me because he waved hia hand to me.

Did you see Talbot?—Yes, he was closing the doore, after which he ran to get into the car as it was going up the eide of the house. The car went towards Rosebank Road.

Long-handled Shovel. Did you notice anything after they left?— Yes, that the padlock had gone. I went over and looked into the garage. The two bundles had gone. I saw a long-handled shovel. It is the one now in court. I have never seen the shovel before. It was not mine and was not in the garage when the accused hired it. It appeared to me to be practically a new shovel. There was clay on the face of the shovel and what appeared to be blackberry stains on the handle. Did you ever see the two accused again after that day!— No.

After the two men had been away for eome daye the ehovel was ueed by witneee* nephew to dig in the garden. She saw Detective-Sergeant Trethew«y take poeseaeion of the ehovel on February 22. The eame-day eh* ea-w him gather eome clay from off the garage floor. This, she thought, came from the tyres of the motor car. The eoil on witness' section was dark. There was none like that found in the garage. She ateo saw the detective-sergeant take possession of an old sack. It did not belong to witneee. She first noticed this sack when ehe looked through the door.

Can you Bay during the time the accused had the garage whether they used it as a garage?—l could not eay if the accused had the car in the garage after the Friday until I eaw it on the Saturday afternoon. Continuing, Sirs. Hearling said that she eaw a photograph of the accused McKay on February 22 and recognised it a* being that of the man who had hired the garage. Up to this time she had not known the name of the man who had hired the garage. The Court at this stage adjourned for lunch. Witness recalled a police parade on March 11, at which she had recognised Jarnea Talbot. On February 22 she went to the Drive Yourself, Limited, garage in Albert Street, in an endeavour to see the car that she had noticed in the possession of the accused. She was able to identify it. On March 24 she identified the accused McKay at a police "line-up." Her garage had an earth floor, not a board one, witness said, and she had never seen clay there previously. The clay which she had seen appeared fresh. (Proceeding.)