FEW CHANGES. RETURNED SOLDIERS.

Auckland Star, Volume LXI, Issue 197, 21 August 1930, Page 11

FEW CHANGES.

RETURNED SOLDIERS.

UNEMPLOYMENT BILL

WOMEN NOT INCLUDED.

FI/AT RATE OP 30/ STANDS

DISCUSSION IN PARLIAMENT.

'(By Telegraph.—Parliamentary Reporter.) WELLINGTON, Wednesday.

"The Unemployment Bill, as now pre. seated to the House, provides an opportunity for doing a very great deal, and with the assistance of members of Parliament, local bodies and others, I believe that next year Parliament will be able to say it went a long way towards solving the unemployment problem in New Zealand," said the Minister of Labour, the Hon. J.. G. Smith, when replying to the debate in the House tonight on the report of the Unemployment Committee. It was found, when the amended bill became available, that although the committee bad taken a great dealof evidence it had not interfered with any of the policy proposals. Its alterations were limited to three. Clause 10 of the original bill had provided for a fine of £100 for failure to register. The committee altered this to "not exceeding £100," and it made a.similar change in regard to the £20 penalty for minor breaches of the Act.

» Clause 14 empowers tlie appointment of associate members of the Employment Board where it is desirable to secure the services of persons possessed of expert knowledge or special qualifications of advantage to the board. It was decided by the committee to delete the provision which gave these co-opted individuals full standing as board members during their association.

No other change has been made. The bill still provides for the flat-rate levy of 30/ on all male workers. It does not include females, and no change has been made in the scale of sustenance allowances previously proposed. The Minister said it was proposed under the bill to give opportunities to workers, Other tliau disabled soldiers, to engage in some vocational training that ould fit them for

the battle of life. Included in tlie New Zealand unemployed were a large number of men wlio for many years had occupied positions as clerks, but who today, through that avenue of employment having been closed to them, were compelled to undertake pick and shovel

work. Under a properly controlled system it could be possible for that class *0f worker to receive such vocational training as would enable him to earn a livelihood other than by the use of pick and shovel, in which occupation at present he was not earning an average living wage. The Main Features. According to the Minister, the thiee main features of the bill were the flat tax, the personnel of the Unemployment Board and the payment of sustenance. The provision for sustenance had been bitterly criticised by Mr. R. A. Wright '(Wellington Suburbs), but that member had not offered any alternative. _ The object' of the bill was to co-ordinate •Government Departments/* with the assistance of local bodies, to find employment, and sustenance would be paid only as a last resort, when it was found that every means of providing work had been exhausted. It would be held that neither a man nor his wife and children should starve. Mr. Wright: Make work for them. * A Labour Member: You did not while you were in office. The Minister said he did not want to see the dole system permanently established in New Zealand; indeed, e hoped that as the result of the operation of the bill the necessity for the ( payment of sustenance would in a few yeais disappear. Double Contributions. It had been contended, said Mr. Smith, ' that the flat tax oL£l 10/ .was « ie q ult ; able, and t'hat the man who received £4 a week paid as Audi as the man whose? weekly earnings. were £ 10. It was the intention of the Government to eaimark a portion of the land and income tax revenue to pay the State susidy on expenditure out of the fund and that would be\ done next. Therefore, the man who. received £10 ' a week would, in addition to paying the £1 10/ levy, assist throng his income tax in the payment of the Government subsidy, and thus contiibute twice. The Government would at this late stage be prepared to accept a graduated scale if one could be produced that was workable, and "under which the money could be properly collected. A proposal had been made by the Trade Unions' Conference for the adoption of a certain graduated scale, but on examination of the details the Xrcasuiy had reported that under it the of collecting the levy would be prohibitive, as yield would almost be absorbed by the cost of collection. _ It. was estimated that under the flat tax proposed by the bill £500,000 would be produced, and collected at a cost of £25,000, and that he considered a very

reasonable outlay. Criticsm of the personnel of tlie Employment Board and the inclusion of workers was replied to by the statement that the Minister did not want a board that would split into two factions fighting for supremacy on something that did not matter. He wanted the board to work together, to try to solve the problem of unemployment in New Zealand. Position of Women. Women had not been brought within the scope of tlie Act, because' unemplovamong women was not sufficiently acute to warrant levying a tax and pro- - viding for sustenance, and for the reasson : that many females in New Zealand were not wage-earners! If these were suddenly compelled to pay the tax the board would in all probability be confronted with a small army of women demanding work or sustenance. As it was, the board, in addition to providing Avork for men, had to try to do the same for women. If a complete success could be made of # .the bill, and it was demonstrated in the light of experience that women should be incorporated, that could be done at an appropriate time. "Sound Foundation." Tlie bill, stated the Prime Minister, the Hon. G. W. Forbes, was founded on \ the thorough, investigation of tlie prob-

lem by a representative committee. He had heard that night a good deal of criticism of subsistence allowance, but there was no shutting one's eyes to the fact that when the community could not find work for a man it could not let him starve. There could be no difference of opinion anywhere in the House on that point. The intention was that the Employment Board should provide work for men able to do it. The very reason for bringing the bill before Parliament was to see whether improvements could be effected, and it would be a reflection on Parliament if this could not be done. He was satisfied that in committee improvements would be made, though it was impossible to provide against every contingency. Fair Trial Desired. Mr. D. G. Sullivan (Avon) : Has the Prime Ministe# gone into the Victorian system of contributions ? Mr. Forbes replied that he had gone into the question of a graduated levy and special taxation, and it was evident that the levy, as proposed in the bill, was a special feature of the Unemployment Committee's report. So far he had seen no practicable alternative suggested. Nobody could say this was the last word on the problem, but he urged the House to give a trial to the measure suggested by a representative committee and approved by a committee of Parliament. Thus it was entitled to a trial, and if, on being put into operation, it was found unworkable, then it would be for the House next session to decide what improvements should be made. The Prime Minister repeated his statement that a clause to the bill would be introduced to enable the Employment Board to anticipate its revenue, so that a start could be made immediately with the work. It was the desire of every ntember to have some measure on the Statute Book that would be at least a start in the task of improving the present position. He was convinced that the i bill before the House would accomplish that, and in addition would provide experience in dealing With the problem. # Alternative Found Unworkable. Mr. G. C. Munns, Chief Government Whip and chairman of the committee on the bill, said he had not been satisfied with the flat tax, but the Minister had produced figures showing that it would cost £7500 to collect £7000 under another scheme, and when up against a proposition of that sort .the committee had no option but to return the bill as it had been presented. He was glad to know that immediately the bill became law £100,000 wpuld be placed at the disposal of the board by the Government to enable a proper start to be made with the work. If the bill Avere amended in the committee stages by the House the committee would not feel that any reflection was being cast on it, as it was extremely anxious that the best possible measure should be devised.

NO SEPARATE PROVISION.

DUPLICATION UNDESIRABLE.

EXPLANATION BY MINISTER

(By Telegraph.—Parliamentary Reporter.) WELLINGTON, Wednesday. The conviction that the provision of work for disabled ex-soldiers could be more effectively dealt with by the Employment Board than by a separate body was expressed by the ..Prime Minister, the Hon. G. W. Forbes, in the House to-night, wlieii replying to the debate on the report of the committee on the Unemployment Bill. Mr. F. Waite (Clutha) a member of the committee, discussed the report from the viewpoint of the returned soldiers. He said that a good deal of evidence was heard and carefully reviewed. It would not be advisable to include disabled soldiers. The committee was fairly unanimous that the returned soldier able to employment should take his chance with 'the rest* of the able-bodied unemployed. It was quite obvious that no provision could be made under this bill for rest homes and the other recommendations of the Rehabilitation Commission, which, it was estimated, would cost £1,250,000 to carry out fully. The Returned Soldiers' Association wanted another board, to work in conjunction with the Employment "Board, 'but the Government and the committee decided that that would be unworkable. He believed it would be a relief to all returned soldiers .to know that their association waa standing firm in asking for a bill in regard to disabled soldiers, and not one that would mix them up with the whole general problem of unemployment. Expense Not Justified. The Minister of Labour, the _ Hon. S. G. Smith, said it would not have been possible to adopt all the suggestions of the Returned Soldiers' Association, which had asked that all the recommendations of the Rehabilitation Commission be incorporated in the bill. Two boards had been suggested, but the expense of that prpposal would not be justifiable under present circumstances. For certain reasons the Government 'had not been able to put into operation at once all the recommendations of the Rehabilitation Commission, but some had been adopted, and in addition to that it was felt that if the Unemployment Bill were passed an opportunity might be given under it to put into effect at least some of the suggestions regarding partially and totally disabled ex-soldiers. The Minister said that once the Employment Board was established a subcommittee could be appointed in a short time, and with the co-operation _of specialists required in connection with the employment of disabled soldiers a start could be made with the rehabilitation of those men. With the co-operation of members of Parliament and representative men and women throughout New Zealand, and with the guidance of the Returned Soldiers', Association, a great deal could be done towards helping the disabled and partially disabled men. "A Simple Matter."

"We have to guard against a multiplicity of boards," said the Prime Minister, "and the question of expense must be considered. Once the Employment Board is set,up it will be a simple matter for it to appoint a sub-committee to deal with the disabled ex-soldiers' branch."

Mr. Forbes said lie felt confident that with that machinery placed behind the disabled soldiers far better work could be done than under a separate board. The Employment Board could deal with the position far more effectively and at the same time keep down the overhead expenses. —