SOCIAL WELFARE.

Auckland Star, Volume LIX, Issue 174, 25 July 1928, Page 11

SOCIAL WELFARE.

THE MENTALLY SICK.

BILL. SENT TO COMMITTEE.

SECOND READING DEBATE. 1 ] (By Telegraph.—Parliamentary Reporter.) WELLINGTON, Tuesday. 1 That the Mental Defectives Amend- J ment Bill ought not be passed into law j in this the last session of the present s Parliament, was the opinion expressed 1 in the House to-night by Mr. Smith 1 (Waimarino). So far-reaching a mea- ® sure, he said, should not be hurried l through; it should be fully discussed ] and sent to a committee, but not passed. The Minister would be over- i stepping his duty if he finalised the bill this session, though it could not be c disputed that he had given a valuable lead in bringing the measure forward. The Parliament which would replace the 1 present one would be in a much better position to handle legislation. s The Minister of Health retorted by 1 saying there was nothing hurried about this legislation, which had its origin in i investigations commenced more than i three years ago. ] Mr. 11. E. Holland (Leader of the j Opposition) urged members, in face of i divided scientific opinion on the ques- i tion of inheriting mental weakness, to be careful before legislation was passed. . A House which included only one member with scientific, training could not rush into a solution of a highly seientij'ie problem. He was sure the Minister of Health would forgive him for saying he had not paid the same attention to the influence of environment as he had to heredity. The Minister should also explain the limitations he would impose in defining the phrase "anti-social conduct," which occurred in one of the most drastic clauses. When the bill was considered by a select committee all the evidence should be fully reported and made available for every member's guidance. Influence of Environment. Mr. Lysnar (Gisborne) argued that there were people detained in mental institutions who should not be there, and who would be free were they subjected to proper scrutiny. In every case that had come under his notice people had become mentally unsound because of worry and a wrecked constitution. All they wanted was care, food, nourishment for the body and brain. He was not exaggerating when he said he had known of people being detained for three months before steps were taken to ascertain whether they were actually mentally unsound. Magistrates were too prone to act upon certificates of medical men. He (Mr. Lysnar) had known of a case where a person had been committed to a mental hospital after the magistrate had taken a cursory glance at the patient sitting in a cab. More attention to actual examinations should be required of magistrates. Careful Scrutiny Urged. Mr. Mason (Eden) thought there was ground for the most careful scrutiny of the bill by a committee, far, when moving the second reading, the Minister had quoted six cases to show the effect of the Imion of mental defectives. Not one of those cases, Mr. Mason continued, justified this bill, because in each case both parents were mentally I deficient. This bill went further than preventing the marriage of two mental defective". No person on the register might marry if the bill were carried. In pointing this out, Mr. Mason said he was not minimising the significance of these six cases, but was urging extreme caution in dealing with the problem. No Warrant for the Bill. Mr. Howard (Christchurch South) said he did not believe the Minister intended to place this bill on the Statute Book in its present form. If the State decided that it would be unprofitable to allow certain people to have children and took measures to prevent their coming into the world, where would the matter stop? South Africa, with 120,000 mentally deficient white people, had not introduced legislation on these lines; and the total white population of South Africa was only slightly larger than that of New Zealand. If we examined oxir own backyard might we not discover that we were producing a similar strain in New Zealand. Mr. Howard did not think there was justification for the introduction of this legislation. If we had produced 120,000 below the standard within three generations there might be cause. It could not be gainsaid that mental defectives were produced by lack of nourishment. He would rather see a fence built at the top of the precipice than this ambulance maintained at the bottom. There was no call for such a drastic and dangerous bill. If proper evidence were given before the committee a much better bill might emerge. The Minister Replies. Replying at the end of the debate Mr. Young paid particular attention to Mr. Howard's criticism, in so far as it related to the reference to the poor whites. As far as he (Mr. Young) knew the poor whites of South Africa were in v the present unhappy position because of social distinctions as between ordinary Europeans and the black. Mr. Howard: I mentioned their case only to show how easy it was to slip back. The Sterilisation Proposal. The Minister continued by thanking critics for their expressions of opinion, and remarked that certain outside criticism had been more helpful than some voiced by members. When speaking of the proposed classification of socially defective people, the Minister was interrupted by Mr. Lysnar, who asked would a deaf mute be a social defective? The Minister: Oh, no, but that would be a question for the experts. It could not be denied that there were people in mental hospitals who should not be there, and there were people in prison who should really be elsewhere. Special institutions were the only solution of this problem. Anti-social conduct in itself did not bring a person within the scope of the Act; it had to be combined with some mental defect as defined in the principal Act. There should be some place to which people who suffered mental breakdowns, perhaps through overwork, could be sent with &_ reason* able hope of recovery. The purpose of ' the bill in so far as retardate children were concerned was to make an examination before they got out into the world. It wa# far better to tak'e action now than to have such young people before the criminal court later. Mr. Fraser: You can do that without the shadow of a register in the background.

The Minister said children would not necessarily come into contact with tlie board at all. Teachers and social workers could make a report. Mr. Lysnar: You are not quoting from the bill. Mr. Fraser: How do you get away from the infallibility of the board? Mr. Young replied that there were ample safeguards against registration, the right of appeal being specifically provided for. A judge of the Supreme Court had the final decision. Could anyone who had listened to the Education Department's report on the cost to the State of certain defective families deny that the State should exercise its right to protect the community? Speaking of sterilisation, the Minister said it was better to legislate for insensible germ plasm than to deal with the living product of that plasm years afterwards. By legislating for that plasm now we prevented it from polluting clean homes later. Mr. Fraser: Would you sterilise an alcoholic ? The Minister agreed that an alcoholic could beget defective children. Mr. Lysnar: You are legislating to include Julius Caesar. (Laughter.) The Minister said it was not proposed to go in for wholesale sterilisation. The Leader of the Opposition: May I ask if the Minister intends to go through with the sterilisation clause? The Minister: I'm not saying that at this stage, but I would like to get it through. We want to do the right thing. If the committee will support me I will go through with it. My feeling is that if we don't get it now we will get it at some later period.

The bill was read a second time and sent to the Health Committee.