L'AFFAIRE KNYVETT.

Auckland Star, Volume XLI, Issue 166, 15 July 1910, Page 6

L'AFFAIRE KNYVETT.

DEBATE IN PARLIAMENT. ; ~::. i PRIME MINISTER'S STATEMENT \ < A LIVELY DISCUSSION. \ „ i {By telegraph.—Parliamentary Beporter.) ' WELXdNGTON, Thursday. | The -Knyvett ease engaged the attention of Parliament this afternoon and . evening, when the Prime Minister made .. a statement to the House relative to ' the whole affair, and a lively discussion ensued. Sir Joseph Ward, in the course _ of his remarks, said he wished to make it plain that at no time since the start . of the Knyvett agitation had he, as ( Minister for Defence, taken any active part in the matter. Statements had been f made that were quite contrary to fact, but he had never in any way done any- , thing, as far as the Government was concerned, to the prejudice of Captain Knyvett or to draw the Department into a discussion on the matter. He had [ considered it his duty, as Minister for Defence, to wait and make a statement . to the House. He would therefore place : on the table tho whole of the corres- • pondence, a report of the evidence sup- ' plied by the Court of Inquiry, and a ' copy of the evidence supplied by Captain Knyvett. Mr Massey: "Did the Court of In- ; quiry take a full report?" Sir Joseph-Ward: "I wiU deal with the matter in my own way." The Prime Minister then proceeded to deal with the whole-of the voluminous correspondence. Mr A. L. Herdman rose to a point of order. It was, he said, hardly fair to just read the correspondence and then leave the House to discuss the matter. The debate -should be postponed. Lots oi members knew nothing of the facts. Sir Joseph Ward: "Some members of the Opposition know enough about it to . make use of the affair for political purposes." Mr Massey: "That is not true." Sir Joseph Ward: "The Leader of the Opposition has announced that Mr Knyvett will stand against the Hon. Gv Fowlds for Grey Lynn next election." Mr Massey: "That is not correct." Sir Joseph: "Then your friends have said so." Mr Massey: "It is quite incorrect." The Prime Minister went on with the reading of the correspondence, and was interrupted \y Mr T. E. Taylor, who asked was there, not some method which could be arrived at of placing the corres- j pondence in "Hansard" without reading j it. "AU the country from Invercargill to the Bluff is hearialy sick of the I ■whole-thing," declared the member fori Chrisrehureh North. I Sir Joseph Ward said he had not previously had the opportunity of making a statement on the subject, but others i had been busy behind his back. After reading for an hour Sir Joseph went on to say that he had asked that Captain Knyvett should withdraw his impertinent | letter regarding the Chief of Staff, and had intimated that he would then be ■•willing to go fuUy into the matter. That request was not acceded to. In no part of the world would such a letter as that written by Captain Knyvett be allowed to pass by the 'military authorities. In fact no private manufacturer would tolerate such insubordination. ■Mr Massey: "Are you going to have the charges made in that letter against Colonel Robin investigated?" Sir Joseph: "I am not going to hurt any man when he is down, but I do not know of anything more unfair than the action of Captain Knyvett's friends . in trying to damage the character of a man who had done no harm." Mr Laurenson: "They are mad." Mt Glover: "That is not putting it fairly." Sir Joseph: I was told that we were - going to lose seats in Auckland, and -that-it would-be the subject of a want of confidence motion. Every possible pressure was put on mc to place on his .trial a man who had done no wrong. This I would not do. I was opposed up hfll and down dale; not one man supported mc. Up to the present I have refrained from making any statement, but I have my chance now, and I am going to make fuU use of it. Mr. Massey: We are in for it. Sir Joseph: The hon. gentleman did not -wait for it before making capital of the case. I have tried to foUow my course as Minister for Justice, and to be judicial. I was wining to aUow Knyvett a fair and full inquiry if he •would-withdraw his insubordinate letter, and he refused. Mr. Massey: He had no reason to withdraw. There was no-thing insobordrna-te about it. Sir Joseph: The letter I have read, and which has long been public property, speaks for itself. Mr. Massey: Knyvett was found "not guilty" of insubordination; you ought to know that. Sir Joseph: Do you beUeve that this letter I have read is not insubordinate? Mr. Massey: Yes. Sir Joseph: If I, as Minister for Defence, had yielded to all this clamour, there would be an end to discipline aU •through the Dominion, and the Department might as well be out of existence. The Prime Minister added that he had actuaUy been asked to set up a Royal Commission to inquire into the administration of the Department by friends of Captain Knyvett. That was ridiculous, in view of the changes just coining about under the conditions of the new Defence Act. Mr. Poole: You did not say that in your reply on the subject to Auckland members. Sir Joseph Ward: There was surely no need. Mr. Poole: Your reply was very curt. Sir Joseph: That was due to the inteUigence of those to whom it was sent. Sir Joseph then went on to deal further with the treatment meted out to Colonel Robin, who had been the subject of the very foulest injustice on the public platform at Auckland and elsewhere. Mr.' Laurenson: The treatment he received was brutal. Sir Joseph explained that Colonel Robin had himself asked for an inquiry in regard to Captain Knyvett's charges against him. Mr. Massey: Then why not grant it? Sir Joseph: That inquiry will take place as soon as the new commandant arrives. Mr. Massey: You are overlooking the fact aU the while that Captain Knyvett was found "not guilty" of insubordination. '■_; Sir Joseph: That is not a correct statement. Mr. Massey: I -will prove directly that it is. Sir Joseph went on to say that Captain Knyvett had been badly advised by his friends. He (Sir Joseph) had included in the amendment to the Defence

Act now before Parliament a clause that would provide the opportunity of an appeal in aU such cases. This he did with a view to obviating the pressure which it was attempted to put on Ministers in this case. There had been threats of want-of-confidenee motions and the loss of Parliamentary seats. Every conceivable means of making Ministers bend the knee to popular clamour had been used. One of the main facts he wished to impress on the House was that Captain Knyvett had been asked to withdraw his insubordinate letter, and he had written a refusal to do so. An effort had been made to create sympathy by a tour of the Dominion on behalf of the Knyvett cause. In no place but Wellington had there been more than 250 persons present. There were 800 present at the Wellington meeting. Mr. Luke: And 750 of those only went to hear Mr. T. E. Taylor. Sir Joseph: Yes, the speakers were well advertised, and the meeting weU organised. Mr. Massey: It is a wonder you don't say I had a hand in it. Sir Joseph: Some one very near you had; your organiser had. (Laughter.) The Prime Minister went on to say that in Auckland the matter had been drawn into the political arena, and it had been considered necessary to bring pressure to bear on the Government, despite the fact that it was known the matter would be fought out on the floor of the House. It wa3 even arranged that a. vote of no-confidence should be moved. Members: Who by? Sir Joseph: Well, if you want to know, Mr. Glover was to have undertaken that task. Members: Oh! Albert Edward? (Much laughter.) Sir Joseph: Yes, the member for Auckland Central was to have gone even further than that. Mr. Massey stated that he was going to carry Mr. Glover to the foot of the throne. (Laughter.) The Prime Minister continued that Captain Knyvett had made the mistake of thinking the Chief of Staff his enemy, and Captain Knyvett's friends in Auckland had made the charge that Oaptain Kny--vett was being hounded down by Colonel Robin through the columns of the "Dominion." The correspondence he was placing on the table included an assurance from the chief reporter of that paper that he had neyer received any information from Colonel Robin on the subject. The Prime Minister added that Colonel Robin was one of the most honourable and straightforward men he had met, and had he done anything wrong he (meaning Colonel Robin) would have reported it. Mr. Massey said he wished to deny that there was any attempt on his part to make use of the Knyvett case for polij tical purposes. The great mass meeting jin Auckland on the subject was the most enthusiastic he had ever attended in his j life. He deprecated any attempt to be- ! little the intentions of those gentlemen who had travelled the country in the interests of the Knyvett case. The Prime Minister could travel round and state his case at the expense of the country; Captain Knyvett's friends went at thenown expense. Sir Joseph: "You are wrong, they | were paid for their services. One man was paid £60 as his share; I know that much." Mr. Massey: "I admit that theTe was a collection, and the fact that half a dozen girls could collect £200 in the streets on a Saturday afternoon shows the way feeling runs in Auckland." Sir Joseph: "Was the whole of that amount collected in the streets'!" •Mr. Glover: "I can quote figures to prove it." Mr. Massey went on to say that Captain Knyvett was not a victim of ordinary military discipline, but of persecution. Sir Joseph: "Who by?" Mr. Massey: "That is what I want to know. I am anxious to ascertain by whom the wires were pulled." >lr. Massey proceeded to outline Captain Knyvett's honourable career as a soldier, culminating in bis receipt of a Distinguished Service medal, and then gave a history of the case prior to the arrest. At the trial by the Court of Inquiry Captain Knyvett was, he said, found not guilty on the, charge of insubordination. He wanted to know who the convening officer of the Court was, and challenged the Prime Minister to disclose the name of that officer. Mr. Massev went fully into the details of the trial and contended that ' Captain Knyvett had a perfect right under the King's regulations to state his - case to the Commandant if he felt ag- ;- crfeved. The president of the Court had told Captain Knyvett that he was practicaUy entitled to state a grievance, and ' there was nothing wrong about his writ- ' ing the letter as long as he had not done ' it maUciously. The Court found that ' there was nothing malicious about the statements made, though they may have ' been wild statements. No Departmental : report was made of the evidence given before the Court. Cabinet had decided l to torn this officer out of the service on » the few scrappy notes supplied by a member of the Court. The decision was ar- : rived at without any adequate know- '• of the evidence. Captain Knyvett had not had a fair trial, and all he asked ! for was justice for that officer. He ? denied that he had used the Knyvett case for political purposes, and ridiculed < the idea that he intended bringing Cap- , tain Knwett out as a candidate against 1 the Hon. Geo. Fowlds next election.

Mr. C. H. Poole said it was unnecessary for him to say that a very bad impression had been made on the public mind in connection with the Knyvett case. He indicated how farcical the procedure of the Court of Inquiry had been, and instanced the injustice of refusing to allow Captain Knyvett the services°of a lawyer when on his trial. He thought the clause in the new bill providing for the setting up of an appeal court would give the satisfaction desired. Mr A. E. FGlover said he was convinced that Captain Knyvett had been most unjustly treated. He quotedat length from a leading article appearing in the "Auckland Star" at the time when the case first commanded public attention. The member for Auckland Central said he would like to caU attention to what he coneidered a parallel case in the appeal of ex-President Roosevelt, when he, as a Colonel, brought charges against his superior officers, and was given opportunity of successfully substantiating them. Mr. F. M. B. Fisher said he was in Auckland during the time of the Knyvett trial, and every time he felt depressed he picked up a newspaper and read the accounts of what was going on. Anything more ludicrous and absurd would never be found in British Uterature. No one could possibly say Knyvett had a fair trial. The \ Court itself was not a free court, and every fifteen minutes had to adjourn to get instructions from Wellington.

Mr. T. E. Taylor said he was quite sure that Knyvett had not a fair trial, and .that the Court was not a capable court. But military courts were remarkable the world over for their arrogance and stupidity, and the whole New Zealand defence system was a mimicry of the European armies.

Mr. A. M. Myers said that the indignation that -had been created was mainly due to the drastic punishment meted out to Captain Knyvett. He deplored •the lack of seriousness which some members had displayed in the case during the course of the debate. It •was indisputable that Knyvett had a perfect right to write the letter which caused aU the trouble. In his opinion, the Minister for Defence wae not to blame, except that he might have satisfied the people by promising to allow the matter to be thrashed out in Parliament. Mr. Lang said that even if Captain Knyvett had been in error it was only a slight breach of discipline, and the punishment was out of all proportion to the crime. Mr. Lang suggested that the fact of a by-election being imminent iv Auckland had possibly influenced the Government in its decision, announced ■last month, to afford the opportunity -for a re-trial. Mr. W. Fraser said he differed from his leader on this point. Knyvett was not punished for writing a letter, but for writing an impertinent letter. He admitted that the Court of Inquiry in Auckland was like comic opera, but it seemed to him -that this was a case where discipline would have to be observed. Messrs. Maaider, Vernon Reed, and W. T. Jennings also spoke at some length on the subject of the treatment meted out to Captain Knyvett. Sir Joseph Ward, in reply, said an attempt had been made to create the impression that Captain Knyvett was the victim of persecution. Mr. Massey: That is so. TeU us who was the convener of the Court. Sir Joseph: Rather tell mc who you infer was gmlty of persecution. At present we have nothing but innuendo. Mr. Fisher: Did Colonel Robin have anything to do with the case? Sir Joseph: Colonel Robin had no part in any of it, beyond the writing of the letter to Colonel Tuson, which I have read. Mr. Massey: Who was the convening officer? Why don't you tell us? Sir Joseph: Captain Seddon was the convening officer, in the absence of Colonel Tuscm. The Prime Minister said wi** " howling agitation in Auckland over this I question, and he had never heard a single officer in other parts of the Dominion endorse the attempt which was being made to break up discipline. | Mr. Massey: There is no greater disciplinarian in New Zealand than Captain Knyvett. Sir Joseph concluded by saying that . the Department might as well go right out of existence if they were going to i allow any community to hold a pistol at the head of the Government, and by | intimidation get willy nilly what they wanted. The debate concluded with the , laving of the correspondence on the table.