THE BUDGET DEBATE.

Auckland Star, Volume XXXIX, Issue 177, 25 July 1908, Page 8

THE BUDGET DEBATE.

AN INTERESTING CONCLUSION. OUR HALLWAYS SYSTEM. SPEECH BY THE PEI3IE MINISTER. (By Telc;rapl!.—Parliftmentary Ecporter.) WELLINGTON. Friday. The Budeet debate, which lasted over five weeks, wa3 concluded this evening, ■Khi n tii-.- final speeches were delivered l>y tlif Hon. Mr. Hull-Jones and tbe Prime 31.uii.-tiT. Sir Joseph Ward. The latter d.:,i. u.-huustivoly in a sterling speech v.iii ti. L , financial coadition of the coii ;i"v. '! ■>~ Hon. TTnU-Jones, in referring to lit.- -::ilv>.i.. - ni Ibe country, f.aid New Xi:::.-!ii(l wa.- in a unique position in that it .:il fo many distinct and discon-nt-i.i-d r;i:lv..iv 'wrvii-a—such, for instav i". :'•- ■-' |~; ■ l '> '"' found in tlie Au--'i:':>"'l province. Wellington was more Jus ■;: / i:. ■. ii'd, Lr.it in thi' South Island t; : ■ . ■ •.- ;i fimilaj- dillkulty. Alto- -... ; -.- 1:1, :v were- eleven si pa rate lines 11:1.; r (-• ir.P'l vi t.'u . Department, and it could w«.-ii ba understood just how l ilio ii ,iii iiltiea hi administration v.cr- •>, '-ii ii was realised that it was J!;,ii --lii!'' to transfer roiling stock from ca, I.' a:..:t !i- ■-. Tin-: ,:one system. W ; t!i all ilifsi" unconnected it would U- ;ib-' lv;--! , .- to give elTect ..o the Z'.-iif .-;.-:<.... suggested by the. 1.-.:! ;• nf ;;, ■ Opposition. Mr. Massey li;: ! iji:!i'..-d ;, muark as an instance of •,.,. ■ -'1 . -- vi Hi.- / nc system, bur. it h.:i I 1 i. rr:r.i'nilATPil that Denmark was ua ;.-: c ; ■ .- - ':<• Aw-kland province. What ■iv:i:i i;i . ■.-.- -.: r\- to ensure the successful working of 1 zone system was density of pi.jiiil.itinn, and iliat could not be four i in X'j\v Zealand. ILE*\"ENVK AND EJCTEKDITUBE. K-Ff-rrin.c to the alleged fulling oIT in the -'niitii i.-l.'.n [ trallic returns, Mr Hall-Jo-i- - --.:! lliev could not treat tie 11 11... pircemi-al. for the returns of necpi~itv varied. T!io only way to gain n fair idea of the situation was to take the returns of tin- railways of the Dominion a.- a whole. Dealing with the rmuit'i- of expi nditnre, -Mr Hall-Jones Bail morn mils had been relaid last yonr than ever in 'fore. This had not Keen i-l: is-;•■:! to iK'W lines, but to tho faihvnv < xj-onditurr , . The Department k «-i nken :■•! 1 .uH-iro of the cood times at nre>ent prevailing to carry oat this T.-or •. nn.l charge it to the ordinary exp'-:; ii. :t!-. Tli ■-' had been «en allt< nr.d in rea-c it: the pric; of rail?, coal, an.l ir-.'jo'.r. vet thorp had been a reduction in th" '. n-t of trr<\eilirs. .'.:.' IXTELUvSTLNG COMPARISON. TYre bid lx-?n a question of the wages piil : 1 New Zealand rail-way employees eom-ii'.vti v.it'i those paid elsewhere. In the New Zealand service hours of labour yv-T" lc.-j :iiui the f.-uy belter. Enginedrivers anJ firemen were the only men worked in excess of the usual period. Turrii.j: to IJc matter of passenger fares, the .Minister said that for £22 10/ a di.it- i-.il i ; ravel l"iO miles on a yearly tick. t. iiiii: !i nas cheaper than any yearly ■ -m-i's.-i'.in allowed in Au-stralia. In New /, a.and it wiis possible to travel 100 ::i!'- lirr-t-clasa for 11/7, compared v.it! i' 1 1; for a similar distance in New Sou:h Wales. Tiie 5-wne applied to t-'ie. carri.iiri' of uooils. In the Dominion the ln-.vr -t ch:ir;_ r P was 7/11 per ton per 100 r.. "\—. ;':!■! the high-e?t £2 9/ a ton, -.\iiiN , in Xow Sonth Wales the lowest charge tns 13/. nn'l the hig-be?t £5 12/. De*;>:te ti: , .- f.i-ct that Xew Zealand had F" : ~.:!'" disconnected ]ine=. they had no g;;'. rt'iiii;.! rales as in Australia, and ho cra.-idiTrd that the of the railway .-ys-.rp.i p'nerally was to bo reErnrcfsl as hiprhiy satisfactory, more espei i-:!ly when compared with other plai"s. PUIifE >nXISTEK IN REPLY. Sir Joseph Ward, on rising to reply, ■w::.- received with applause. He said the members of the Opposition had crithe administration in a way which calli d for some refutal. Their cry had been "liiution, caution, caution!" He v.-oi;!il -how from whence the cry orijrin;ite<l. All those- who pretended to support t!,.- Leader of the Opposition had Iw>e:i ui-p-pd to preach the same thing — :<i!!Tirl pnanrp :in:l ratitiop.. Pponkrng of !•• serve securities, the Prime Jlinister 6:1 id that the Government was doing riylii in holding those securities in resen<?, in ease the day should arise when the country needed them. BORROWING WTTHIN THE DOMINION. In reply tn the allegations of the der of the Opposition about the Hi-effects of within New Zealand. Sir .Tns-'ph Ward said the total sum borrowed from the A.M.P. was £225.000— equal to .-t;l7.oiio per year—for the last 12 years, and y.-t Mr Msssey attempted to argue that the finances of New Zealand were l;r!n-j weakened by excessive borrowing within New Zealand. The desirability had :ilso been discussed of pit!!™ on the London money market for their loans. It had been argued that New P'Mith Wales hail negotiated a snecesstul loan at n Bpeciiilly low rate, but, as :. matter of fact, tlto loan referred to had he'en a linjjo. absolute failure. Mr MaFSPy: They pot their money. Sir -ToJr;>li Ward: Yes; they got it, but it had to be underwritten. Without r-EOtism. 1 must be allowed to claim that it stands to reason that a Colonial Tmisurer ■■■:■ t of necessity have an intimate anil iivivat" knowledge of ma.ny rnnnry and ' financial matters outside what may he repeated or got through onlinnry channels. Strong statements, tli" Prime Ministpr continued, had been Tnade. that friendly societies had been circularised to take up the country's loan.-. This was utterly unfounded, pin! Hip n«vernmcnt lnd made no overtur~s t.o raise any such loans. Again, it bin! iir-en claimed by Mr Allen that he hr>.l the sum of £250.000, v '• I - . , '! not been <ieclared as availa l,',. vntlrr v.-nys awl mpans. Tho lion. T.!.:r;.i r hail the colossal political andacil , !■. «.iy that he had discovered this sum. and that the Govprnment had not nT.de it kr.own to members that sucb a stiin was uvailabln. Any member, by turr.ii;.!.' 1171 i':i.-- 371! of No. 4 of the finanri:i' rtatPTticnt, would I"md the whole jrnlter set forth clearly in black ami v.-i ii ■- (Applause ana "laughter.) The r r-ni'tor for Bay of Plenty had giver ■f , !. ].' t erUicisra on the financial posi 4: r ,., from the Opposition side. Ml tt, T--jr i ha , ' v.*rong. however, ii that it had cost the amount o ■■ : ■".. ) to effect conversion of certaii 10.-.r. = . HRTNCTPIS AND PRACTICE. Ml the members of the Oppositio v . rVi , Pr yin.c caution, and the membe fo:- Wakatipu had been one of the keer -.0 raise this cry. yet the fact remaii e<! thr.t iho member referred to wante nrnnev for no less than five post office in his electorate and £400.000 for th construction of railways. Further tha i-hr.t he wanted two millions for ne

Parliajnent buildings, and a brand new city down somewhere in the South Island to put them in. BELITTLING NEW ZEALAND. Sir Joseph Ward went on to decry the attempt which had been made to belittle New Zealand's name in the financial world. What would be thought at Home, he asked, if the statement of the Opposition leader was published, in which he said that if the people of the country would not put the break on he hoped the money-lenders would? What would be thought of such a statement as that if made in England? The Prime .Minister went on to quote from an English paper a published statement taking an alarmist view of New Zealand's finances. Such statements were utterly unjustifiable. Every penny of the amount borrowed was invested in the best of security for the public good. Members, he was sure, would be pleased to know that even during the last four or live days, while the debate was in progress, he had received an offer from Australia to invest £350.000 in this country, but that offer he had declined. There were people who were always ready to invest in New Zealand stock, and during the last week he had refused a quarter of a million of money, because those who offered it wanted loans below par. There was no finer security to be found in the world than the security which New Zealand had to offer. On August Ist they had £231.000 falling due in Australia, and nearly every penny of that money had been arranged for renewal on equally satisfactory terms. (Applause.) THE HUNGRY OPPOSITION. It was E.iid he was too optimistic, but he defied them to show that he had ever underestimated a financial position. 1 here was an attempt being made to create a wrong impression, but the fact remained that for the five years he had been speaking of there had been an excess of .€231,000 in the revenue over the expenditure. The Opposition had been roaring "caution" throughout the country, but its members were hungry— so hungry that he was tired of trying to prevent the inroads they were endeavouring to make on the public expenditure. TIGHTNESS OF MONEY. Referring to the reported tightness of money, the Prime Minister said that I many of those institutions which had j been raising the cry were in reality trying to force up the rate of interest. Of this he had undeniable evidence. There were bound to be fluctuations, but tho productive powers of the country were never greater tlian now. Suppose the Advances to Settlers office operations had been limited and restricted in response 1.0 this cry for "caution." Where would j many of the settlers of New Zealand j have been? Did they suppose that the I country had been nearly developed in the 1 matter of railways? Every loan was in- ' vested in the best of security, and the I finances of the country were in a thoroughly healthy condition. (Applause.)