OLD AGE PENSIONS ACT AMENDMENT BILL.

Auckland Star, Volume XXX, Issue 211, 6 September 1899, Page 2

OLD AGE PENSIONS ACT AMENDMENT BILL.

THE ESTIMATES STONEWALLED

A Bill entitled An Act to Extend the Benefits of the Old Age Pensions Act, 1898, to naturalised subjects in certain cases was introduced by message from the Governor. In Committee on the Bill the Premier said we had among us a large number of deserving colonists who had fought our battles as soldiers or done their duty to the colony as old colonists, but had neglected to become naturalised, and were therefore disentitled to pensions. When the Act was passed last year tht. Government had no knowledge of the number of such persons who were debarred from the benefits of the Act. He had therefore introduced the Bill in order to deal with some of the anomalies. As the Act now stands persons who have become naturalised have to wait five years before they can receive pensions, bxit the Bill proposes to reduce the period to one year. He hoped the Committee would confinethe discussion to the Bill itself.

Mr Scobie Mackenzie: It opens up the whole question.

The Premier: But only in regard to matters contained in the Bill.

In reply to Mr Tanner the Premier said it was never intended that the heirs of a person in receipt of a pension should be deprived of the amount to which a pensioner was entitled up to the time of his death.

Mr Bollard instanced the case of a man and his wife who had resided in New Zealand for 30 years, but were held to be disqualified owingl to a short absence from the colony whilst on business in Fiji. He thought the Bill should remove difficulties \of that character.

The Premier said that most probably a Bill would be introduced next session dealing with matters of the kind.

Mr Field (Ota-ki) knew of a case in which a man had resided in the colony for a period of 54 years with the exception of a short visit to England, which debarred him from the pension.

The Premier said some of the Maoris who owned land in various parts of the country had been rushing the Land Purchase Agents with a view to selling their land. They suid "the land no good; kapai the pension." When he introduced the Act last session he had no idea that it. would facilitate the sale of native lands.

In reply to another question the Premier said naturalisation in the neighbouring colonies could not be recognised in respect to the pensions in New Zealand.

Mr Lewis declared that there were numerous cases of aliens who designedly abstained from taking out letters of naturalisation in order to evade the duties which devolved on the subjects of the Queen.

Mr O'Eegan thought that any person who had fulfilled the condition of 25 years' residence should be eligible for the pension, irrespective of naturalisation. An oath of allegiance was equivalent to naturalisation. Mr Massey thought the Government ought to accept an oath of allegiance to the Queen as equivalent to naturalisation.

The Premier said the disqualification did not extend to persons who had served in the militia of the colon v.

At half-past five the usual adjournment took place. At the evening sitting Mr G. Hutchison (Patea) continued ,the discussion, arguing that the Bill was practically an amendment upon the Act of last session and was merely an evasion of the obvious duty of the Government to introduce a measure dealing with all the defects which experience had shown to mar its usefulness.

The Premier moved to report progress, explaining- that lie desired to confine the House to the Order Paper, and offered hon. members an opportunity of offering suggestions for consideration at a future stage. Mr Smith (Christchurch) appealed to the Premier t-o withdraw bis motion

to report progress in order to enable members to express their opinions.

Mr Pirani (Palmerston) thought if ■ progress were reported at this stage j the Bill would sink to the bottom of j the Order Paper and would not be | heard of again this session. i The Premier consented to withdraw j his motion to report progress. i Mr Herries (Bay of Plenty) said the I difficulty had arisen through the mistake of the Premier in making the pension fund a permanent charge instead of an annual appropriation, [ which would have afforded the House i an opportunity to discuss the question (every year in connection with the Estimates. He urged that in the case of Maori claimants the State should provide an interpreter free of cost. Mr Wason bitterly condemned the | whole pension system, which he said j was never really needed, as experience had shown. Warming up he declared that the Act encouraged for- | eigners to plunder the colouy. He moved that the Chairman leave the chair with the object of shelving- the Bill. Mr Monk (Waitemata) also condemned the Bill. The Premier took exception to such phrases as "robbers and plunderers of the colony" applied by Mr Wason to the old age pensioners. He considered these epithets unwarranted and insulting. lie thought the industrious settlers on the Forty Mile Bush should not suffer because they had not been, naturalised for a period of five years, and the men who had fought the bat lies of the colon y in the militia and volunteers should not be debarred from the receipt of pensions. Referring to the mention of the name of Major Yon Tempslty the Premier said if that gallant soldier had lived he would have been entitled to a pension from the State. Mr Scobie MeKenzie: "Yes; like Major Kemp." The Premier: Major Kemp's pension was taken from him by Mr Bryce, a gentleman whom the hon. member supported. (Laughter.) Mr Seddon went on to condemn the strong language used by the member for Sehvyn in reference to the recipients of the pension, declaring that he had taken down the hon. member's words in shorthand. They were: "These men have robbed and plundered the colony." Mr Wason indignantly repudiated the language imputed to him, and said the Premier must have gob the words from some spy about the House. What he (Mr Wason) really said was that "the Premier was putting foreigners on the list of pensions who would like to see England humbled in tin; dust." The Premier contended that what. ' the member for Selwyn actually said was that 'Austdians, Greeks and other foreigners were plundering the colony." Mr Crowther cordially agreed with the Premier that it would be unwise to let the House know too much, because instead of £90,000 the Old Age Pensions would cost the colony double that amount. The member for Auckland city accused the Premier of "equivocation" —(cries of "Oh!")—in his reference to the words alleged to have been used by th e member for Sehvyn. He (Mr Crowther) believed Mr Wason never used those words. He believed special taxation would be necessary to defray the pensions. The Chairman (Mr Guinness) point;ed out that the hon. member was ■ wandering away froni the question, [ whereupon Father William retorted, • "It seems to me the nearer we keep to - the question the further we are away," f at which hon. members laughed.

A great deal of loose and irrelevant discussion ensued, whilst the Premier, with his hands deep down in his breeches pockets, strode round the table of the House with an expression of mingled anger s.nd disgust on his somewhat careworn face.

Mr Fisher (Wellington) came to the rescue of the Premier, vindicating the claims of industrious foreigners. Mr Carson (Wa.nganui) insinuated that Mr Fisher's solicitude for foreigners was dictated by his position as Italian Consul, but George arose in wrath and protested and the Chairman promptly ruled Wanganui out of order dn referring to the private business of an hon. member

Again Mr Carson made a lame apology, and was followed by Mr Scobie Mackenzie, who meandered away to the Wrigg question, upon which the Premier rose to a point of order, wanting to know where the Wrigg case came in

The Chairman ruled that the hon. member for Dunedin was not out of order so far, but he would be if he enlarged on the point. Scobie then declared that of course he had no intention of going any further in that direction and was proceeding to discuss the Bill when the tinkle of the bell warned him that he had used up his allotted time. The feature of the discussion, pointless and digressive a.s it was. was the frequency with which the Chairman reminded hon. members that, they must confine themselves to urging reasons why he should or should not leave the chair, with the invariable result that members disregarded the admonition, and pertinaciously strayed from the main question into side issues. THE CLOVEN FOOT PEEPS OUT. The Premier declared that the action of the Opposition was deliberately designed to block the Estimates. ("No, no," and "Yes.") If the motion were carried it would kill the Bill for this session. He appealed to the committee to assist him in transacting the business of the country. Mr Scobie Mackenzie and Mr Wason bobbed up as the Premier sat clown, and Mr Guinness said as the former had only spoken twice on the question he had the priority of speaking. Then Scobie, with a well assumed of injured innocence, twitted Selwyn with imagining that the only mission of Parliament was to listen to his honeyed eloquence. THE OPPOSITION SHOW THEIR HAND. It had now become clearly palpable that the object of the Opposition was to block the Estimates for the night. From the Ministerial side a threat had been made to force an all-night sitting on the Estimates, and as a counter- j stroke the Opposition were determined : to pin the Premier to his chair on thej question of the first reading of the j Old Age Penion Act Amendment Bill j until midnight, after which, according I to the Standing Orders, no new busi- < ness ca.n be taken. The fact that each member can speak for ten minutes four times on every question in com- ] mittee supplied facilities for a praoti-1 callv inexhaustible pablum. The flow ; of drivel was dammed up for half a.n I hour by the supper adjournment. THE PEEMTEE PUTS HTS FOOT DOWN. At eleven o'clock when the Committee resumed, there were only nine members in their Diazes, and the bell

was rung- to summon a quorum from the library and Bellamy's, anil those other recesses within the precincts of . the House to which members retire for \ 1 sweet communion and intellectual studies. , Mr Moore (Kaiapoi) having contri- i I buted his share, towards the delay of ! I business, the Premier made another ineffectual appeal to the Committee to proceed even at the eleventh hour with | the business of the session. He said ; that unless the Leader of the Opposi- i tion assisted him in passing at least a ; class of the Estimates, he (Mr Seddon) j would as Leader of the House have j to move for a suspension of the Standing Orders so as to permit of new business being taken after midnight. Captain Eussell said that while he sympathised with the Premier he thought the difficulty might have been averted hours ago if Mr Seddon had agreed to a reasonable hour for thej House rising. He objected to sitting ! until 3 or 4 o'clock, and then being | oblig-ed to attend a, committee tht_same morning. Provided reasonable hours were kept there was no desire to obstruct business. If the Estimates were proceeded with to-night in the present temper of the House it would | only result in squabbling over the items and no useful progress would be made. In the course of the subsequent discussion Mr Bollard threatened to "sit there all night" if the Opposition didn't get their way, which shocked the Minister for Works, who rose to protest, but the Chairman let it pass. The Opposition continued to eke out the time by frequently rising to points of order or to make personal explanations. Mr McGuire (Hawera) in the course of a rambling speech declared that the Premier was neither,"sincere nor honest" in regard to the Bill before the Committee, and was peremptorily ordered to withdraw the word "honest." Egmont endeavoured with considerable ingenuity _to wriggle our of it, but the Chairman was relentless. "The hon. member must withdraw the remark without qualification," said Mr Guinness. "Very well, T withdraw the honesty," said Felix, desperately collapsing into his seat and mopping his expansive forehead with a copious pocket handkerchief, but the Chairman was inexorable, and pinned poor Hawera to withdrawal, and the McGuire complied with bad grace. At a later stage Mr Buller O'Regan had a tilt at Waitemata ami created a diversion by advising the Premier to withdraw his promise to bring 'Town ! the Public Works Statement this week in retaliation for the systematic ob- . struction by the Opposition. lie was . particularly sarcastic in his animad--versions on the member for Waitemata, who he said was one of a class i who had no sympathy with the masses • or with the unfortunate and suffering. : Buller proceeded to slate the obstrnci tionists in a most effective style, but • it was like pouring water on the back ■ of a duck.

Later on Hawera had again to e.it the leek owing to having accused BuY

ler with saying something which did not contain a "scintilla of. truth."

At ten minutes to on. 1 o'clock a.m. the Premier declared he had just got into good working trim, lie stigmatised the proceedings of the evening "ns the most dißerSTlltivliTe Incident that had ever disgrace".! this House." Was it manly or straight forward on the part of the member far Selwyn to stand xip and insult poor people to obstruct the business of '.he country? Those who would benefit by the Bill now beforp the Committee hnd done more for the welfare of the colon? than the member for Selwyn had ever accomplished, who now insulted anrl reviled them. If the business of the country was to be obstructed as it had been to-night it would be impossible to pass the Bill. It had been his intention to introduce a General Amending Bill, but that was now out of the question. It was the selfish greed of the Opposition which actuated them in grudging old age pensions. He threw upon them the whole responsibility of denying justice to a large section of the community. If the present, obstruction were to be continued the only course open to the Government would be to ignore the Opposition and refuse to enter into any agreement with them.

Mr O'Meara (Pahiatua) characterised the tactics of the Opposition as "miserable and moan in the extreme."

"Withdraw," roared the Chairman

Pahiatua cried "peccnvi." "but it's true al lthe same," said Buller sotto voce.

Mr Gilfedder, whose forte is florid Johnsonian style and wealth of stilted metaphor, wanted to know why "Kaipoi" sat like a shag on a rock making no sound.

Mr Carncross hotly denounced the Opposition for the tactics they were pursuing, and said it would bo better to shut up shop and go to the country than continue wantonly wasting their own time and the public money.

At a quarter past three o'clock the motion that the Chairman leave the chair was negatived on division by 33 votes to 5.

The Premier indignantly condemned the obstruction which had wasted a whole day, but cast the sole responsibility upon the members for Patea, Selwyn, Dunedin, Bruce, Kaiapoi, Waikato and others.

Then three members rose simultaneously.

Mr Lang charged the Premier with impertinence. On being called fo ord«! he substituted "not very polite." TTe scouted the idea of the Premier dictating how he shoiild vote, declaringhe would not grovel in the dust at the feet of any man.

Messrs Wason, Moore, McGuire, Hogg and others indulged in mutual recriminations, and more drivel followed until half past 4 a.m., when the Governor's message was agreed to and the Bill was read a first time.

The House then adjourned