THE SESSION.

Auckland Star, Volume XXIX, Issue 184, 6 August 1898, Page 2

THE SESSION.

jPABI/lAMENTARy PROCEEDINGS

(By Telegraph.—Parliamentary Reporter.)

•: ■ ■ WELLINGTON, Friday. FINANCIAL- ' STATEMENT POST-

POKED,

Ijx tjb.© House this afternoon, after the preliminary business, the Premier asked that the Banking Bill be proceeded with, immediately. After answering questions he said the Financial Statement was ready for delivery but he desired to clear away the Banking Bill, which was a disturbing element in the business. The Leader of tie Opposition said he did not see the slightest chance of getting the Banking Bill through that afternoon and h;e protested against the continual evasion of answering questions. iThe. Premier had promised that when the Banking Bill was put through Committee three or four days would be •allowed before the third reading in order to allow Mr Watson time to consider whether he would ask to be heard before a Committee in his own defence. He suggested that the Statement be delivered in the evening and consideration of the Banking Bill be resumed on Tuesday. The Premier said he was aware that Mr Watson did not intend to petition the House. When he promised the Souse to bring down the Financial Statement this week he did so in the belief that the Banking Bill would first be got out of the way. But if the measure were-dealt with before midnight he would be prepared to lay the- Financial Statement on the table. ME HARRY WRIGG, In reply to Mr Carson, the Minister of Defence promised to lay,on the table all correspondence received adverse to the bestowal of the New Zealand Cross on Mr Harry Wrigg. RAILWAY EXTENSION. Mr Crowther asked the Minister for Public Works whether the Government can see its way as to the necessary finances in connection with applications for railway construction. He said in the Auckland district there was much dissatisfaction in^ conse. quence of the interruption df mails and the absolute necessity for through railway connection between Auckland and Wellington on which the people of the former district were more united than they had ever been before. The Minister of Works said the matter would be considered, in connection with the public works proposals. MONEY - ORDER OFFICES. Mr Houston asked the PostmasterGeneral whether he will open moneyorder offices in districts where there are large working populations, such districts being far distant from existing money-order offices. He explained that his question referred more par» ticularly to the gum-digging population. In many districts the men were compelled to travel long distances to deposit their savings and to run the gauntlet of the attractions of wayside "pubs.' The Premier said it would not be possible to establish money-order offices everywhere they were asked for, but wherever there was any prospect of encouraging thrift among the workers it was the bounden duty of the Government to make the necessary i arrangements. He would have a special report made, and even where, there was only a small business to be (done he .would rather be on the side of opening offices. If hon. members who had localities in their districts which they knew would be benefited he would be anxious to establish money-order offices to stimulate thrift. A MODEL J.P. Mr McGuire asked the Minister of Justice whether it was true that a recently appointed Justice of the Peace had been sentenced to one month's imprisonment in Nelson gaol for not contributing to the support of his mother. He said he was induced to put this question on the Order Paper by noticing a paragraph in a Christchurch newspaper with reference to a man who had been £17 in arrears in his payments of 10/ a week which he was ordered to contribute to the support of his mother. It was Said that the delinquent was a newly - appointed J.P. He was ordered to pay £3, or in default, to be imprisoned for one month. He (Mr McGture) thought the cases was a most extraordinary one. Had the Woman been his mother-in-law there might have been some excuse, but such conduct to his mother showed that he was not fit to occupy a seat on the Magistrate's Bench. The Minister of Justice said he had c no knowledge of the case as represent ted. He had directed the Under-Secre-tary to write to the district magistrate for information. ILLITERATE JUSTICES. Mr Brawn (Taranaki) asked the Government whether, before making appointments to the Commission of the Peace, he will take steps to ascertain Whether the appointees can read and write. He disclaimed any idea 6f treating this question as a joke. He knew of at least one J.P. who, since his appointment, had been endeavouring to acquire a knowledge of the useful art of signing his name. In these advanced days; he naively argued, it was necessary that a magistrate should be able to read and write. The Minister of Justice said hb feared the hon. member had spoken merely from hearsay. It was not complimentary to members who recdMxnended the appointment of J.P.'ss to ; make such charges against them, and he hoped they would take bettev precautions in future before making recommendations. FAIR RENT BILL. Mr Hynter asked if the Government intended to introduce a Fair Rent Bill.' ■■ " The Minister of Lands replied that the land of Fair Rent Bill which Would meet with his approval would be a measure which would be fair alike to Government tenants or Others. A large 'number of members of the House wanted a revaluation for -Government tenants under the name of a Fair Rent Bill. If he had the opportunity he would introduce a Bill 6ti the subject this session, but until j the-country had fully considered the question/it would be wasting.the time of the House.

REGISTERED LETTER ENVELOPES.

,Mr Houston asked the Postroaster(Jen^i'dl whether he would supply registered letter envelopes to eoliiitry post-offices for sale to the general publk'. He said that in his district (Bay at Islands) remittances- were sent to the baiilcs by post and the ordinary envelopes were unsafe. Tho Premier said if hon, member!* would furnish the Department with particulars of local requirements a

supply would be forwarded, but the postal authorities coujd not furnish the new envelopes to districts wherts they would not be in demand and would be dead stock.' WORKMEN'S TICKETS. Mr Massey asked the Minister, for Railways whether he will arrange for the issue of workmen's tickets between Auckland and Otahuhu and on the Auekland-Onehunga line at the same rates as are at present charged from Wellington and Te Aro to Lower Hutt and Petone, namely, 2/o,for twelve-trip tickets. He contended that concessions should not be granted to one district which were withheld from another.

Mr Cadmau said he quite agreed with the hon. gentleman, but.it was very evident that he had not studied the regulations, from which he would' see that workmen's tickets were is-; sued to enable them to come into the city. Mr Massey: I want cheap rates for going out as well. l Mr Cad man: So far the experiment in that way made at the Lower Unit has not been very successful.

VACCINATION LYMPH.

Mr. Lewis will ask the Government whether they •- will make arangements to supply all public vaccinators with calf • lymph, and at the. same time issue instructions that in future nothing,but calf lymph shall be used in vaccination. ■ Mr Carroll said the Government had arranged to increase the supply of calf lymph from time to time, and was contemplating- arrangements by which nothing but call lymph would be used in vaccination, but there was necessity for an alteration in the law, many absurdities having been created by past legislation. For instance, no one was eligible for employment in the Civil Service who was not vaccinated. Five thousand vaccine tubes could be obtained for £ 250, which would meet the requirements of th& population. If possible, the Government would introduce an amending BUI this session, but in any case arrangements would be made for an increased supply of calf lymph.

NAVAL AND MILITARY CLAIMS,

Mr Ma&sey asked the Government whether they will caiise copies of the report of the naval and military claims commission to be forwarded or the result otherwise communicated to the claimants whose cases have been dealt with by the Commissioner. The Minister of Lands did not think it would be necessary to send a copy of the report to each of the claimants, but it was only fair that every one should be informed of his position. The subject had been considered by the Government, and a sum of money would be placed on the estimates to meet the claims which had been awar. ded by the Commission.

ACCIDENT INSURANCE

In reply to Mr Smith the Premie* said the Accident and Insurance Bill would be introduced shortly.

THE BANKING BILL,

At hali'-past seven, when the House proceeded to the orders of the day, the motion for the consideration of the report from the Committee on the Banking EilJ stood at the head of the list.

THE PREMIER'S PROPOSALS.

The Premier said he proposed to as.-c the House to agcee to the amendments, and then, on the motion for the third'Yeading; to afford an opportunity for any hon. member whd desired to do so to move the recommittal of the Bill-for the purpose of considering further amendments. He was entirely in the handte of the House. As to inserting an amendment altering the date of the president's retirement from the 31st March to the 31st December, if that was the wish of the House he would, in the motion for tlie third reading, move to recommit the Bill for that purpose.

RICCARTON STOPS THE WAY,

Mr Rolleston said the course proposed by the Premier would not meet, the wishes of hon. members. He objected to a suggestion that had been made by the Premier to have certain amendments made.by the Governor-in-Council, or by the. Legislative Council. He therefore proposed, as an amendment, that the Bill be recommitted for the purpose of reconsidering clause 2. His reason for proposing, this was that at the time this clause was passed there was the same confusion in the minds of hon. members as to whether two of the four directors should be elected by the Legislature, or whether all four should be appointed by the Governor-in-Coxmcil.

THE PREMIER PROTESTS

• The Premier said he had made the suggestion that the amendments made in Committee be agreed to, and that the motion for the recommittal of the Bill with a view to the reconsideration of certain clauses be taken on the third reading, with a view to simplify matters and meet the wishes of lion. ! members, but as usual the member for j Kiccarton threw difficulties in the way. |If the Committee had endorsed one ! principle more than another it was that Parliament should exercise some control over the Board. In.the course of his remarks the Premier also ridiculed the contention that the shareholders whose interests in the bank were comparatively much smaller than those of the colony should have equal representation o-n the Board with that of the colony. He was. satisfied in his own mind that there had been gross extravagance in the management of the bank. Formerly there was only one general manager, but now there was also an assistant general manager, for .whom there Was no necessity. The cost of management had amounted to as much as 6 per cent, on the gross business of the bank. When he came to review these facts, together with other information in his possesion, but not ! known to the House, he was impressed, with the duty of adopting effective precautions to protect the interests of the colony. The amendment moved by the member for Riccarton would not help the bank, but ultima-i | tely land it in difficulties;. How could ' | the colony exercise any real influence jif three directors were elected by the ! Governor-in-Council and three by the i shareholders? !Mr Scobie MacKenzie: 'The Government could appoint the chairman.' The Premier said in the interests of the colony he must ask the House j to reject the amendment. j GENERAL CRITICISM. Mr Sc'bbie MacKenzie in the course of a spirited speech urged the House not to allow the bank, how that it had emerged from thick darkness, to become a political institution, whatever else they might do with it. • Messrs Duthie and Buchanan supported the amendment, which on a division was negatived <t>y 36 to 25, and the amendments in Committee were agreed to. ■■''■■■' ■•■-.-,

■In reply to Mr Montgomery the Premier said he was not absolved from Ms promise to alter the date of the termination of the president's office from the 31st March to the 31st December, and he intended to do this either by message from the Governor or by amendment in the Legislative Council. ■

MOTION FOR THIRD READING.

In moving- the third reading of the Bill the Premier said although there was no reason for anxiety as regards the bank itself, there was ground for serious anxiety relating to safe-guard-ing the interests of the colony for some time past. He had regarded the position of president as merged in the Board.

'That's nonsense,' interjected Mr Duthie, when the Premier reiterated the statement that the management of the bank has cost 6 per cent, on the whole business. He went on to condemn the extravagant character of the proposed new bank buildings. He had desired to keep clear of the bank's affairs, but it was rumoured by the man in the street that the bank intended to pay a dividend of five per cent, to the shareholders. He asked why proper writing down was nottaking place, and he was told that the bank's solicitors had advised that the writing down could not be made as regards the Colonial Bank buildings, etc. This showed him that there was something in the rumour that the directors intended to declare a dividend of five per cent.

THE CUTTING SYSTEM.

A matter that has caused him the greatest anxiety and which applied to the other banking institutions in the colony was the keenness for doing business. It was stated that if one bank would not take over an account another would do so. This meant that other institutions in the colony besides the Bank of New Zealand would suffer, and the colony would, be seriously injured by this under cutting, and meant in the long run that some one must suffer. When such large sums were advanced on second class secmn|ies it must excite anxiety. He also found that there was an absence of that economy which ought to mark the management of the* affairs of the bank. His desire was to give the bank a period of peace and afford it an opportunity to work out its own salvation. In the suggestions he had made he had done so under the advice of bank experts. For the future they would have to depend upon the Government auditor and the general manager. The improvement in the condition of the bank's affairs had not been commensurate with the magnitude of the advances. He did not think public confidence in the bank would have been maintained if affairs had gone as they were. It devolved on the Government to select the best men available, and to leave them to work out the salvation of the bank free from political influence. Let the change be made in such a way as to prevent, heartburning, and to protect the interests of all parties concerned; and when the bank was placed in a secure position and public confidence was restored then the time would come for someone, with the necessary capital, to come forward with an offer to take over the bank with all its liabilities to the State.

Capt. llussell said the Bill would place the bank in a worse position than it had been before. There was no continuity ml the Board, the period of twoyears during which each director would- hold office in succession being too-shark The shareholders were in the position of third mortgagees and were worse off than the Government as regards security. Ho argued at length that no sufficient reasons had been adduced for the changes proposed in the Bill. The House adjourned for suppew At eleven o'clock the Minister of Lands continued the debate on the motion for the third reading of the Banking Bill. Replying to the agreement that directors were only to be appointed for two years, he contended that it was not desirable that the millions of money at the disposal of the j bank should be governed by one set of people. A safeguard to shareholders and the colony was a change in the directors should ch-cumstances warrant that step. Thursday's meeting of shareholders the Minister characterised as one of the biggest shams that could possibly take place; retiring directors" had sufficient proxies from England and the colony to ensure their re-election. Had there been any apposition? and what proof, he asked, of satisfaction on the shareholders part with their management this afforded? He claimed to be the first member of the House who had had the audacity to go on the public platform and advocate the Bank of New Zealand. He was glad to heaj* that the Leader of the Opposition and many others -had come to his way of thinking! Mr Montgomery credited the Premier with a sincere desire to pass the Bill, but he said the real poWer" which was behind the Premier and the banking legislation was a secret that might never be divulged. He strongly condemned remarks detrimental to the stability of the bank, which he' believed was in a sound position. Mr Scobie MacKenzie moved as an amendment 'that in the opinion of this Hotise it is not desirable to proceed with the Banking Bill until the president and directors of the bank have had an opportunity of being examined upon the matters proposed to be affected by the Bill. . THE BILL PUT THROUGH FINAL . STAGES. ; The House sat till a few minutes after five this morning when the third reading was carried by 26 to 10. In the course of his speech Mr Ward reviewed the banking legislation and dwelt at great length on his private affairs, stating amongst other tilings that 'If he was to die if it .was not correct, he was prepared to say that in iS9I he was in.a perfectly solvent condition and able to carry on if he had been allowed. The one mistake of the Ward Association was that it had leaned too heavily on it ft bankers.' j

Mr Rolleston considered the Bill uncalled for, that it was mischievous, and would increase political control over' the bank. .

At 4.30 a.m. Mr MacKenzie*s amendment Was put and negatived by 2a 16 .1.1. -

The Premier in replying said charges had been levelled at the Government side of the Hoiuse in connection with this legislation which were degrading to political life. If there was one thing that would put. him outof public life and make him feel there was no honour in it it was such attacks as had been made through the medium of this banking legislation. The present Bill must do good. To leave things where they were must lead to disaster. He condemned the attacks made on the bank itself as

likely to do the institution . harm which would reach.the colony itself.

The Bill was then read a third time and-put through its final stages.

The following is the division list on the third reading:—

Ayes, 26: Allen, Cadman, Carncross, Carroll, Duncan, Fisher, Flatman, Gilfedder, Graham, Hall - Jones, Holland, Houston, Lawry,- McGowan, MeKenzie, J. Meredith, Mills, Morrison, Parata, Seddon, Stevens, Symes, Tanner, T. Thompson, Ward, Wilson.

•Noes, 12: Bollard, Brown, Hunter, Lang, McLean,. Massey, Monk,' Rolleston, Russell, J. W. Thompson.

Pairs (for the motion): Hogg, Millar, Pere, Field, Joyce, Steward, Smith, Taylor, Kelly, Larnach, Wason, O'Meara, Montgomery, O'Regan, Kalhau, G. Hutchison.

Against: Buchanan, Lewis, Wright, Lethbridge, Carson, Sligo, Herries, McNab, Guinness, Duthie, McGuire, Pirani, Scobie Mackenzie, Crowther, Heke, Fraser..