CONCILIATION BOARD.

Auckland Star, Volume XXVIII, Issue 274, 25 November 1897, Page 2

CONCILIATION BOARD.

SEAMEN'S UNION V. CERTAIN STEAMSHIP OWNERS.

The above Board sat until 4.15 o clock yesterday afternoon dealing with the application made by the Auckland branch of the Federated Seamen's Union m the cases of the Cleveland Steam Navigation Company, the Onehunga and Waiuku Steamship Company, Mr Parker and Mr Holgate that the tirms cited should pay the same rates and agree to the same conditions as those already arranged under the finding of the Board or Conciliation in the case of the Northern Steamship company and others. The first case taken was that m which the Onehunga and Waiuku Steamship Company was concerned. The members of the Board present were the Chairman, Rev. George Burgess, Messrs J. M. Shera and W H Lucas. The Union was represented by' Messrs Belcher and Mark, while Mr Hoskings appeared as a director of the Company. In our last issue Mr Hoskings' statement appeared that the wages paid on the Weka were, for the three deck hands, £8, £7 and £6 per month respectively, the men to keep themselves. The engineer got £17 16s per month, and the firemen £6. Mr Belcher asked if the man on the Weka did not do the same work as able seamen. Mr Hosking said as a matter of fact the captain had to do a good deal of the work that would be done by able seamen on a larger vessel. Mr Belcher asked what was the status of the man who got £S per week. _ Mr Hoskings said they called him the mate, but it was not contended that he was an officer. He was simply older, more experienced than the other men, and was therefore paid more. When the men left the boat they went home for their meals. Mr Belcher .said the same held good with men on other boats. They naturally went home when they could and had a meal. Mr Hoskings said the men had been advanced £1 per month some time ago unasked. Mr Belcher said he understood the lireman had not been paid £6 per month until recently. Mr Hoskings said that was the case. For many years the engineer lired up himself, but'he asked for a boy and one was got at £1 per week. When the boy left a man of 40 was glad to take the position and the rate of pay was advanced to £5 per month. That mail left and the present one was paid £6 per month. It was very seldom the Weka did any night running, and they had a lot of idle time both at Onehunga and Waiuku. Mr Belcher said tiiat the men were surely entitled to an allowance of 10s per week for having to keep themselves. Mr Hoskings said a man could keep himself on less than 10s per week, as prices now were very low. The Chairman : Would you ration your men as liberally as the Union Company does at a cost of 5s per week ? Mr Hoskings : Well, I can hardly say that without consulting the directors. The Chairman asked Mr Belcher to state the rates paid on other lines. Mr Belcher said the rates were -.—Able seamen, £6 10s per month ; firemen, £8 10s ; greasers, £8 10s ; trimmers, KG 10s ; ordinary seamen, £4 10s. Those rates were now paid by the Union Company. The Northern Company was paying 10s per month less at the present time. With regard to the equivalent for food, the Merchants Shipping Act allowed Is per day for the fact of bad provisions supplied. Mr Hoskings said it seemed to him they were paying better rates than those asked by Mr Belcher 'The Chairman said so far as the first man was concerned, if 7s 6d was allowed in lieu of keep he was paid full rates, and the same applied to other seamen. In the case pi the fireman he did not get the same rate as paid in other boats. Mr Hoskings said the fireman had only to shovel a ton of coal a trip of four hours. He was standing with his head out of the port hole half the time. That was different to a fireman's position on the bigger steamers. Mr Belcher said the man was a fireman all the same, and should have a fireman's pay. The Chairman said they had to fix a standard rate of wages for firemen generally. The standard rate at present was £8 10s and found. This man got practically £4 10s if 30s a week was allowed for Ms keep. Although the man might not be working half that time still it was open to the employers to work him the full eight hours. With regard to the three seamen they seemed to be receiving the standard rate of wages. The first man, who was doing able seamen's work, got full pay. The other two were ordinary seamen, and were also getting the standard rate of wages. Mr Belcher said one of these men was 35 years of age, and yet they were considering him an ordinary seaman. Mr Lucas said it was experience and not age that constituted an able seaman. As far as he could see these three men were receiving full pay. That only left the questions of the fireman to be considered. Mr Shera said if Mr Hoakings could pay the fireman the full scale then the whole affair would be settled. The Chairman said Mr Hosking would no doubt see that it was impossible to break down the whole agreement because one fireman was not working full time. Mr Hosking said the trade did not require the services of a fully experienced fireman. Chairman: If you have to employ a man why should not he get the full pay? Mr Belcher pointed out the disparity between £17 per month for the engineer, and £6 per month for the fireman. Mr Hosking said a surveyor might get five guineas per day, and his chainman ouly ss. He could, not pledge the Company to pay this price for a fireman. Uultimately further consideration of this case was adjourned. CLEVELAND S.S ; COMPANY. This was the next case taken. Mr Belcher said the position was pretty well the same as in the former one. He had received a letter from the directors of the Company stating they could not see their way to enter into any agreement with the Union, as they had been losing money steadily since the start. As to the men, if they were discontented the letter stated " some of our shareholders who are able seamen would be glad to take their places." Mr Belcher said the Hirere was only on the inside river trade. Some difficulty was experienced in getting information about this boat, and the men were very reticent. As a matter of fact he did not know what was the rate of wages paid on this vessel and he therefore asked that the owners be brought under the same terms as those already decided upon by the Board in its previous decision. He wished however to draw the attention of the Board to the fact that it was hinted in the letter that if the men were dissatisfied with their pay their places would soon be filled. Evidently the employers were not prepared to listen to any complaint from their employees. Mr E. W. Alison on behalf of the Cleveland Company said the directors wished to strongly protest against the legislation which enabled the Union to cause them to be brought before the Board as parties to an alleged industrial dispute when none existed. The Chairman :We cannot listen to protests against the legislation under which

we are sitting. We are acting under the law. Mr Alison : You decline then to hear a criticism of the Act under which this Board is constituted ? Chairman : If you will read it before your members of Parliament it may do good, but we cannot listen to it. Mr Alison said the directors had asked him to enter their protest against this legislation. He would, however, leave that and pass on to the next part of the document. This stated that the men employed by the Company were quite satisfied both in respect to their hours and the wages they were paid. A document to that effect had been signed by the men (put in). It was further stated that the Hirere was owned by country settlers who were endeavouring to bring Wairoa and other places between that district and Auckland into closer communication. Over £3,000 had been invested in the steamer, but, unfortunately, the shareholders so far had not received any return for their investment. The wages paid were as follows : Master, £13 per month; engineer, £15 3s 4d ; decjv hand, £8 13s 4d ; boy on deck, £4 6s 8d ; boy in engine room, £6 10s. As the vessel was not paying expenses the tariff for freights had been increased instead of reducing the of the men. These facts were all made known to Mr Belcher previously. The directors contended : —l. That no dispute existed between them and the employees of the Company. 2. That the employees are paid a good living wage, considerably in excess of what was paid previously in the same trade, and that the steamer's revenue will not allow of any increase being made, and that shareholders are surely entitled to some return for their investments. 3. That employers are being hampered and trade crippled by unnecessary legislation. Chairman : Does the deck hand provide for himself '!

Mr Alison: Yes, he is an ordinary sea^ man.

Mr Belcher : There must be some misapprehension, as this man is really the second man in command.

Chairman : He seems to be mate and crew.

Mr Shera: The man may be regarded as an able seaman, seeing he gets a sufficient rate of pay to rank as one. Mr Belcher said he only asked that the standard rates paid by other ship owners should apply in this case also. He apprehended that the first thing that would happen would be that the deckhand being called an ordinary seaman by Mr Alison his wages would be reduced. Mr Alison : It is a piece of presumption on the part of Mr Belcher for him to assume anything of the kind, and I ask you, Mr Chairman, to prevent him making any such statements. The Company has been paying these rates in the past without any pressure being brought to bear by the" Union, and I would ask you, sir, not to allow such presumptuous remarks to be made.

The Chairman: Mr Belcher, are you satisfied the crew of this boat are paid the standard rate of wages.

Mr Belcher: If the deck h,and gets £8 13s 4d lam satisfied. There is still, however, the question of the boy. Mr Alison : I don't know his age, but should take him to be about nineteen. He has had no experience, and he gets £4 6s Bd.

Mr Belcher : If the boy is 19 years of ■ age I think he is entitled to ordinary seaman's wages. A lad needs no previous experience to go as an ordinary seaman. Mr Lucas : What are a boy's wages ? Mr Belcher : £4 per month. Mr Lucas: The man is getting more than able seaman's pay, and if these are boys then Mr Alison may safely sign the agreement. Mr Alison : The trouble is that if I sign Mr Belcher may at once say these boys are ordinary seamen and demand increased pay. Mr Lucas: But that will not rest with Mr Belcher.

Mr Alison : Mr Belcher seems to be the cause of all the trouble, and determines the whole business. Mr Belcher: I must object to these insinuations against myself. The Chairman : It will greatly aid conciliation if such remarks are not made.

Mr Alison : I make no insinuation in this. Mr Belcher represents those who caused this industrial dispute, and now he seems ashamed to own it.

Mr Shera : We find you are paying more than the standard rate of wages. Mr Alison : Then why are we cited to appear here. Mr Belcher : We have still got to consider the pay of the fireman. Mr Alison : He also is a boy. Chairman : In the case of a steamer running from which there are absolutely no personal emoluments we want as generous an interpretation as possible to all concerned. Mr Belcher : The vessel is a trading one to all intents and purposes, but run by a company of farmers. Mr Alison : She is run as a commercial venture, and for the convenience of settlers. Mr Shera: There is nothing in the agreement to fix the rate payable for lads so you can safety sign the agreement. Chairman: All we require is evidence that these are boys and not seamen or firemen. Mr Belcher said the trouble was that employers too often got the services of men ; as ordinary seamen owing to the necessi- ; | ties of the seamen. They get a man and pay a boy's wages. Mr Alison said he would furnish particulars at the next sitting of the Board. INVINCIBLE AND WAITOA. Mr Belcher said these were similar cases to those already heard. The Invincible was used, like the Stella, for towing logs, for which vessel rates had already been fixed. The ship-owners had practically ! compelled the Union to ask that the rates of pay should be made the same all round. Mr Parker said they felt it an injustice to be brought there when they had no dispute with their men. The Invincible was solely occupied towing logs. The vessel did not compete with others. He did not know what the men were paid, as he gave the captain so much a month to run the vessel. Sometimes the men did nothing for two or three weeks together. As regards signing the agreement he would rather lay his vessel up than submit to do so. There was such a small margin left for profit that it was hard to be bound by any | agreement. He thought it a great in- j justice to bring him before the Board. The Waitoa was used for the pilot service. That was also run by the captain for a 1 lump sum per month. In answer to the Chairman Mr Parker said he absolutely could not state what wages were paid. If they did not come up to the standard he woxild not alter them. He had no doubt he paid well up to the standard rate, for he was known to have a bit of money, and the spirit of the clay seemed to be to take from a man what he had got. At this stage the Board adjourned until ten o'clock this morning.