OUR RAILWAYS.

Auckland Star, Volume XXIV, Issue 223, 20 September 1893, Page 2

OUR RAILWAYS.

DEBATE ON THE GOVERNMENT BILL. ANOTHER GOVERNMENT VICTORY. (BY TELEGRATH—PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER.) Wellington, this day. Jhe first sign of a Government victory on the Railway Bill was given at tho afternoon litting yesterday, when Mr Rolloston made Bonfoaaion that he had committed a grave tactical blunder in moving his amondment, •ad that he did not mean to preas it. Ho complained that the Premier had pub febn in an entirely wrong posifclon by treating his amendment as • party question. He trusted the Proinier would withdraw from that position. He did nob wiah to embarrasa Ministers, but wished to assist them, if possible. He Would therefore allow his amendment to go on the voices, but hoped tho House would follow the usual course on the second reading, and express its views on tho Bill. A Bill extending the term of the Commissioners for t<veU-e months should be passed, | remitting the question to the nexb Parliament, A UNIQUE POSITION. Tho Premier said in nil hia experience he hud nover seen a position so unique as the present one. He took Mr Rolleeton'e statement aa an admission that he had not understood the position of thoquostion when he moved his amendment. (Mr Rolleston : "The aapoct of tho matter.") Well, lie ought to havo looked at the matter from Bvery standpoint, aa tho Government, knowing tho legal aspect of the case, considered ib imperative that the question ihould be dealt with this session. Ho had wished the House to consider the subject »parb from party feeling and on its merits, but Mr llollestoti's amondment was one he was bound to look upon as hostile.—lb was a very thin Houso that listened to the member for Oamnru, who spoke Crab on tho Bill. The emptiness of tho benches was partly attributable to the fact thab the subjecb under debate was pretty well threshed out on the previous day, and had lost much of its interest, but there was another circumstance which had allurod honourable raorabora of. tho Lower Chamber from their seats. Ib was nothing loss than A MARRIAGE. The marriage ot a daughtor of the Hon. Dr. Grace. Tho ceremony took place in tho Catholic Cathedral, which lios nob a hundred yards from Parliamentary Buildlotra, and amid the crowds that flocked to witness ib were many gentlemen of both Houses. The Council, out of compliment to tho doctor, who is ono of its most esteomed members, wont so far aa to adjourn at an early hour of the afternoon. Our representatives, having no valid excuse to follow the oiample set by tho higher assembly, had to continue their deliberations throughout the dreary afternoon. They did so, howover, in very limited ►jumbers. Whilo Oamaru's member waß holding forth against the Railway Commissioners, about fourteen nob very attentive members constituted his audience. The rest wero away, witnessing tho marriage ceremony, and taking parb in the festivities that followed ib. Mr Duncan, at tho outset) of his speoch, left no doubt as to his views. He believed that tho Government should

CONTROL THE RAILWAYS, just aa they controlled the Post-office and Telegraph Departments and the Public Trust Office, under the Government. In his opinion, it was only reasonable to suppose that the management of large undertakings liko railways should bo more in tho general interests of the colony. The manat;ementof the Commissioners had beon adisappoinbment to all, ho contended. Whon the Bill putting tho railways under their control was passed, all who voted for the measure were under the impression thab a new state of things was to be inaugurated, but their expectations had been far from fulfilled. The Commissioners, Mr Duncan repeated, had not carried out all, or nearly all, that had beon anticipated of them, and he did not think there should be any delicacy in criticising their conduct. Certainly tho member for Oamaru felt no delicacy in bringing those gentlemen to book. His speech fluctuated between a direct attack on them and a refutation of everything that had been said in their favour. He denied that they made any concession to bho travelling public of the colony. Generally, they had merely given an advantage to dwellers in large towns.

PEOPLE IN THE COUNTRY had derived no benefit from thoir management. "The tarifla were things which no fellow could understand," said Mr Duncan, and he chanted for quite half an hour on the wrongs which Oatnaru had suffered by change of freights. The valuation of thab white-walled city had fallen forty per cent, since the advent of the Commissioners. The recollection of the evil " the wicked three" had wrought on his "am toun," Btirred Mr Duncan to his dopths, and he became moro vehomonb still against thorn. He spoke of their boycotting Oatnaru, taking land from it that was nob required for railway purposes, and dealing unjuttly with a certain man whoso grievances he detailed at length. In conclusion, ho told the House that ho waa not anxious for the Bill, in fact he did nob want tho measure. Whab he did want waa thab the Commissioners should be swept away forever. His intention was to support tho Bill as far 03 Committee, but beyond that stage he clearly intimated he would follow it no longer unless it; were amended in several important points, and was brought into conformity with his own ideas. KAIAPOi'S MEMBER.

.Mr Moore traversed a considerable part of Mr Duncan's speoch, and controverted many of the statomonts ot that honourable gentleman. Mr Mooro thought the Bill should be argued apart from any personal or party considerations, but he was quite awnre of the difficulty of bo treating it. There had been complaints under the management of the Commissioners, he know, but there had likewise been diacontont undorthe old regime. The Commissioners had run the railways on linos laid down by Parliament. It rested with Parliament to say what these lines should be. The question was whether our railways were to be worked on commercial principles or worked with a view of promoting settlement. It was by no means oaay to combino bobh these objects. The Commissioners, however, he indicated, had baon very fairly successful in doing ib. His idea with regard to the Bill before theHou3o was that it should be set asido by the Govornraenb after tho second reading, and any alteration in thspresenb system" deferred till the electors have had an opportunity of discussing the question. Mr Mooro even appealed to the Premier, who waa leaning back with closed eyes in his seat, to take the course he suggested, but Mr Soddon's prompt "Certainly not," showed that the leader of the Government was not to be led by a member of the Opposition rank and file. A VOICE FROM QUARTZOPOLIS. The new member for Thames came to the discussion, he eaid, with a perfectly unbiassed mind. He came from a district where the steam horse had nob come. Hia speech had ono great merit that was absent from the long orations of hia predecessors. Ib was brief. Listening, he said, to what honourable members had spoken on ihe subjecb of the Kailway Bill, it nad_ occurred to him how much more i forcible these dissertations would have I been had they been boiled down. i Honest, but unsophisticated member for

Thames! The same thoughb haa unfortunately occurred to a few in tbab chamber. Mr McGowan concluded hia remarks by intimating his intention to support the measure, nob because he liked it, bub because ita tendency was in the direction he approved of. ON COMMERCIAL LINES. Mr Meredith held bhab the railways should be managed on commercial lines, and in the interests of the people. Such a large investmenb of capital as our railways represented should be under the control of Parliament. Ho did nob wish to Bee the Premier at) the head of the railwaye, which ho held would'be the result of the passing of the Bill. If the measure bocamo law then Mr Seddon mitfhtj well say in reference to the railways, "I am monarch of all I survey." Mr Meredith delivered tho lasb sentonce with ■ a pompous roll and the self-conscious air of a man who had distinguished himaelf, but on the last word he came to A SUDDEN HALT. Ib was evident that he had intended to continue the quotation "My right there is none to dispute." Unfortunately, however, when he gob as far as "survey," his memory played him I false. He roferred to his notes, from which, by the way, he had taken very frequent refreshers, but his notes had got confused. The House aroused to attention by the sudden stoppage of the honourable gentleman's sonorous eloquence, looked up, saw him fussily searching for the conclusion of his quotation, and burst into laughter. Mr Meredith did nob prosper in hia quest for the missing words, and so had to lay tho poetry aside and descend agaiu to | proao. Towards the close of his speech he endeavoured to steer a middle course. It did nob prove a safe one, however. Before he went very far he came into violent collision with tho Leader of the Opposition, Ho was going to vote against the Bill, but he was not going, ho said, to give the Government a slap on tho side of the face by supporting Mr Rolleston's amendment, " Thab tho mcasuro be read a second time six months afterwards." MR ROLLESTON INDIGNANT. Tho indignant Leader of the Opposibion rose and denied thab he had ever moved such an amendment, which is, of course, the case. From different corners of the chamber advice came to the now confused member for Ashley, who at length became conscious of his mistake, apologised, and shortly afterwards resumed his seat.—Mr Allen told the Houao thab the cry for a change in railway management had not come from those who uned tho railways, bub from a section of those employed by the Railway Commissionore. The only argument for a change, that was worth anything, in his opinion, was that under tho prosonb system Parliament was putting into the hands of

. IRRESPONSIBLE INDIVIDUALS a power which should belong to itself, bub Mr Allen met that argument by saying thab the Commissioners had not such power in their hands.- They were themselves completely in the hands of tho Government. He then maintained that com--1 plaints had been much less frequent during thereign of theltailway Commissioners than during the period when the Government exercised control of the lines, and maintained that at presenb thero was a feeling of satisfaction and security in the South Island at all events which had never existed before, and he was certain that that satisfaction and security would bo destroyed if the Bill bocamo law. ■ A PLEA FOR SETTLEMENT. Mr C. Mills had nothing bad to say of tho Commissioners. Ho had always found them conrtoous. He hoped members on both sides of the House would deal impartially with the meaauro, but he hoped also thab the Government would consider that whilo tho Commissioners were extracting rovenue from tho linos they might be retarding settlement in homo districts, A WEARY SOUL. " My soul is weary within me," said Mr Fergus, as he rose. His laboured exclamation caused the House to laugh, and the vo" marks with which be followed ib up uwoke j a hope thab he was going to be shorb and interesting. He had never listened to such drivel as had been spoken on the Railway Bill. The facb that ho had to withdraw bho term "drivel" did nob disconcert the bon. member, but he launched forth into a lengthy tirade against tho Premier, which showed thab, however loudly he might cry out aboub his soul being weary, he was determiued to weary the souls of his brother representatives. He was particularly vehement in his challenge to the Premier to place the Chief Commissioner ab the bar of tho House to answer charges which had beon made againßt him. That was the only fair course to pursue, contended the Wakatipu member. He confined bin attacks chiefly to Mr Seddon, but occasionally he made an onalaught on the Government party. The presenb Government were, he said, creatures of a socialistic wave which had swept over I the country some years ago and floated them into the position they occupied.

THE AMENDMENT DEFEATED. When he concluded, the Speaker pub the question of tha second reading, couplod with Mr Rolleston's amendment. The voice of tho Chamber proclaimed against the amendment, buta9 some were evidently in favour of ib the Speaker rang his bell. Then, when members had filed in from the lobbies and the doors were locked, he again put the question to a full House. This time the reply was unmistakable. Hardly a voice was lifbed up in favour of tho amendment. The Speaker asked if a division was callod for, bub Mr Kolleston and his party knew too well how groab a defeat a division would entail, bo they were wisely silent. " Unlock the doors," cried the Speaker. Thon it occurred to some member on the Govornment benches whab a capital thing it would have been to have forced a division, just co show the Leader of tho Opposition his hopeless minority. He accordingly cried aloud for a division. At onco a dozen voices from the Opposition, fearful of showing their weakness, vociferated that the tardy schemer was " too late." For a moment the House was doubtful whether ho was or nob, but soon the Spoakor settled the matter by announcing his de cision. It waa too late. The doors had been unlocked. The question that the Bill be read a eocond time broughb forth

SEVERAL NEW SPEAKERS. Mossrs Blake and Scobie Mackenzie dealt lengthily with what would happen when the Commissioners' time expired. The latter held that when the Commissioners left, the Act by virtue of which they became appointed would become inoporative, and a deadlock would take place in the management of our railways. It would be impossible to make any payments without breaking the law, and generally chaos would descond on our railways. What Scobio wanted was a responsible Minister in charge of railways, one to whom all questions relating to our railways should be addressod and who should bo auswerablo if the management was not satisfactory.

A MINISTERIAL REPLY. The remainder of his speech was an attack on Mr Soddon.— Tho Minister for Education regarded the long discussion which has oecupiod two days as the best proof of the abnormal position of our railways when divorced from Government control. Unlike Scobie, he replied that the House waa not absolutely held down by the law to tho proton t state of affairs regarding railways control. In spite of what Clutha had eaid ho believed the House had power by Act to appoint another person in 1 the place of the Chief Commissioner. Tho

faulb he found with the Bill before the Chamber was thab ib did not give Parliament sufficient control over the railways. The' Commissioners' management he did nob consider had been a commercial success. What success they^had attained was merely a fainb echo of th# INDUSTRIAL IMPROVEMENT which had taken place in the colony since .the Commissioners camo into office. In conclusion, he advised tho House to accopt tho moasure, which was moderate, for assuredly if they did not, one day thoy would have to accept one not nearly 60 moderate.—la o shorb speech of a few dozen sentences, Mr Tanner declared his intention to vote for tho Bill, nob because ho considered ib satisfactory, but because) he believed it was the firsb step towards enfciro Government control of railways.— Messrs Wilson and J. Mills spoke briefly on the measure, the former for, and the latter against. A QUESTION OF RESPONSIBILITYThe chief argument of Captain Russell' 8 speech was the inaccuracy of the Premier' 8 statements in the introduction of the Rail" way Bill, and the competency of the Com" missionera. Ib was the Minister of Public Works who should be held responsible for the railways even although their immediate control rested with the Commissioners. "Yes," said Captain Ru3Bell, "any fault that tnighb attach to the administration of our lines must be borne by the Premier." Tho Commissioners were responsible to the Minister of Public Works. Mr Seddon shook his head at the suggestion, bub Captain Russell insisted that such was the caae. If he was the Minister for Public Works, he would consider himself responsible for the efficiency of tho railway management under the Commiaaionera. Tho Captain held that the employees had been much bettor treated than under the previous regime. As to tho general principle of management by a Board of Commiasioneril, the experience of the colony was strongly in favour of it. What ia our boab managed department? asked ho, and ho answered his question by intimating thab the Education Deparbmenb was. And why ? ho next queried. Because it was under tho control of a Commissioner. Mr Reeves rather pooh-poohod the idea, bub Captain Russell was steadfast in maintaining that Boards of Education wore simply Boards of Commissioners. Tlio administration of those boards had been good, and far hotter and purer, ho contended, than that of Parliament. Thoir administration wuh highly calculated to inspire confidence in the management of any body of Commissioners. Mr Rhodes saw no necessity for tho Bill. They had power to re-appoint tho Commissioners for a short term till Parliament mot and tho opinion of the electors had been obtaiued on tho subject. Ho did nob boliovo in half-and-half moasures. Either let tho Commissioners have sole control, or hand over the railways to tho Government altogether.—Mr J. Kelly also spoke, quoting instances or the unjust manner in which omployoea had been treated by the Commissioners. THE PREMIER'S REPLY. After Mr Hall-Jones had expressed entire approval of the main principle of the Bill and intimated his belief that dissatisfaction among tho men was duo not so much to the Commissioners as to subordinate officers, the Premier arose to reply. Having roferred to Mr Kolleston's withdrawal of hia omendmont as an admission on the part of tha Leader ot tho Opposition that he mado a tactical blunder, Sir Seddon pointed out that the Government woro bound in justice to tho country to bring down the Bill. The Act of 1877 had beon an experiment. It was not intended to bo final. It was always understood that Parliament might change the system if it saw that ib was not a success, It was absolutely nocofiaavy that there should be legislation on tho quostion this session, and if thero was dod, tho responsibility would resb on the righb ahoulders. Ho thon went on to criticiso Captain Russell's speech, and denied that there was any personal antagonism between himself and the Commissioners, but he recognised clearly tbab whub was wanted was a Minister in tho Houso who would bo in close relation to the Commissioners and thoroughly conversant with tho management of our railways. Tho concessions which tho Opposibion gave the Commissioners credib for had not been voluntary. They were wrested from them by small settlers who had cried out against the management. In defending Cominisaionerf, the Opposition were merely defending themselves, Mr Seddon contended, for ib was thoy who lot the control of the railways out of the hands of Parliament. In answer to the contention that a moribund Parliament should not make euch a chango as thab proposed in the Bill, he asked why that argument had not been used against the Electoral Bill, which gave effect to such a great constitutional change as the granting ot tho franchise to women. The second reading was then carried by 20 to 12, and the Bill was sec down lor committal to-day.

THE SECOND READING. Tho following is the division list on tho motion for aocond reading of tho Railway Bill :— Ayes (20) : Buick, Cadman, Earnshaw, Guinness, Hall-Jones, Hoge, Joyce, J. Kelly, VV. Kolly, Lawry, ftlacintoah, McGowan, C. H. Mill?, Palmer, ParaUi, Sandford, Seddon, Shera, Smith. Noes (12): Buchanan, Buckland, CarncroSß, Fish, Harkness, Lako, Moore, Meredith, Rolleston, Saunders, Swan and Wrieht. Pairs:—Ayes: T. Thompsom, Ward, O'Conor, Stout, Fraser, Taylor, Houston, Willis, W. Hutchison, W. C. Smith, Geo. Hutchison, R. Thompson, Kapa, Duncan, J. McKonzie, Pinkerbon, McLean, Tanner, Roeves. Noes : Mitchelson, Bruce, Wilson, Fisher, Richardson, Rhodes, Hamlin, Taipua, McGuire, Russell, Jas. Mills, Hall, Newman, Duthie, M. J. S. McKenzie, Valentine, Allen, Fergus, T. Mclvenzie.