MR WITHY AT NEWTON.

Auckland Star, Volume XIX, Issue 215, 12 September 1888, Page 2

MR WITHY AT NEWTON.

A 1 large crowd assembled in St. Georges Hall last evening for the purpose of heading Mr E. Withy's account of his stewardship during the late session at Wellington. From the beginning it was evident /that1 there; was a strong opposition element in the room. As it was anticipated th_at the proceedings might be lively, Sergi.rMajor Pratt and four constables were in attendance, to be ready in case of emergency. A large number of Mr Withy's supporters occupied seats on the platform. Mr Withy arrived amidst applause and hoots, the former predpminating largely. Mr S.W.Ambury (Mayor ofNewbcmJpreBided, and briefly intfodiiced the speaker. He said that Mr Withy was not a stranger. Mr Withy came forward amidst uproar. He said that he had come there with the hope that there would be a large^proportion of thinking'men'amongst the audience. JNo doubt the thing that they mostßemembered ■was his retrenchment resolution. (Uproar and cries of "Yes I Yes !' "What about Maxwell 1 ; You don't retrench him. Laughter.) He had proposed that resolution deliberately, arid he did not mean to draw back from one syllable which he had uttered. (Cheers.)..' He believed it to be inevitable, and, what was more, just. He looked round the country, and .found excepting the men receiving salaries 01 iloU and below that, everybody had suffered. (Some uproar here ensued, during which a voice cried out, " Qlover, shut up, re not an elector. Shut up, I tell you.') Mr Withy said that whether the meeting would hear him or not, his speech would .be published in pamphlet form throughout the country." (Applause.) They might wonder why he had withdrawn his resolution^ and, what was more, voted against it. vyeu, he would explain. Parties had been rather mixed during the recent session, and it was attempted to make that motion a party question. When they saw that the position was so complicated they went to the government and asked them to give some giiarantee that the retrenchment would _be effected during the recess. The Premier asked him to withdraw it, and he consented; but a member of the Opposition objected, and that was the'reason vvhy he was compelled to vote against his own motion. PUBLIC EXPBJfDITUR?, Durjng the ejection he had frequently spqVen upon the public expenditure, anq he had gone into" the matter a little. He found\tbst: dtjrfcg $«> kf* ffi«r y,earS they had not pa,id the sinking fund on their debts. /Instead, of paying out pfihe revenue" £250,000' per ann.um» they ; had fiimnly bprrowod it from some other Sjource. The wult)' was that the defioits kept on efowing annually.'' In 18,85 the. ■HosjpiMa anti: Charitable A^d xs\wz& the Government of liabiljtijlea the extent:, of "ab.out £IQO,C)OQ , per a.nnum. In spite of that Relief the property tax had been increased to the extent of £66,000, and they hact gone to the" bad at the rate of £528,000 during the last year. That reaUy meant! ti^a't they shirked the repayment, of their loan, the deficit during thq past, four yea,fS had been afc the ra,te of £400,0pp per annum—a very tidy sum for a colony lilco thig. Since that they had also borrowed a,n additional tvvo miiUqns.wh'ich meaflt£Bo,OOp perl' anipum' jucreased' interest. To. n^eet; thia, an extra tariff had been put on, |o prevent'them from getting further into the mud, bjit -vvquld not, touch the^ £528^000 der ficienoy'r

■ / - \ 'THE RAIL^AIS. ~ ,: OB the railways they had also lo3theayUy. They • coat. £Jsß7>qOO, the returns were £994,Q0t>r and the working expenses left a deficiency "of £359,00 M.be ma,d« ;ud >$ taxes. • Unfortunately, this stato of thinga was not, getting any, better. He heard; that they were going to the bad to the extent oi >^ -- £50,Qdd' iper annum, although they- bad 50 miles/eitfa* "railways Since 1886 andlßß7. It wai.however, gratifying; to know that the coat of working had been reduced. (Hoots.) Hejbelieved irr Stateowneysbip of railways; but he. Believed still more in squarely meet--1 in g facto.'? Tfiey at present lost "■ at the rate of £36^,PpO per year, which the taxpayer haS^'to 'make lip. (Cries, Give Sam Vaile a show.") The main difficulty, was j that oonstitaentaes had in thft prf OT3tjs j expenditure in their own districts. That meant that railways were not laid down according to common sense, but in accord? ance witn pojifcioajl pressure. (Applause,,) HeThad toldthema% the'electiontbatif he; ■went down, hewould consider New Zealand. : firsVand his constituents next.- '<( Applause.) That was what all members should do, in . order to keep themrieK::' 3^r Withy then i, quoted'from MrTaile'arecently-publislied Btat^ment to show! how the annunl loss upon the railways had incre§Bed. (He was in* terrupted jcry, .'« And yet you increased Maxwell's pay." This caused up- ;'■"■' rqarTwhen Mr 'VVithy quietlyi^old those present that thoy were simply prolonging th^ mftQting.). EDUOATION. Mr, lYithy next sppke w^fch regard to th^ education question, and said' that it'must be retrenched, otherwise it; was tofctering to:-|ta fall. He fgund that the total ■ annual expjepdifqre" .upon ■;:'iediip|tlon'- was r^alfy £4-f6,7Q9, which nj.ea.titf, apontj £§ 7s. 9d pej; child per annum. Ha t^oiigfeti th4^ they mußj) form a depreciatign fqnd with regard to their schoo! buMlnga. -Was" if f^ir t6 leave that question to bo settled by their ■ children? He sincerely hoped thai their last;two million loan would be their lasb. Theyonly repived £1,899,7|9, and yet they must p|y interest on two millions, an 3 also some day repay^hatamount. Atpr^genttlipyhsd to raEay altogether £3o;ioob,Qop,* or abouit £$0 per 4d. ' (A voice - atij owed l'd clear out of the country.") v^heri allcp^ fliatuei>cj[e| wajai^d loa^ - money fjho <;ountry , - couldrnqt prosper.' In the ,-pasp had" aourisheff, and '~ principle , i been thrown to the winds. Log-rqllingj 1 wa'a"' the 'system' by whichthe country, waa governed. Ib created an appearance of prosperity, but ib was hollow and delusive. It led to'thei creation of offices, and also to land^speculation, wljichledtd further log-rql: ling ThcTQ wasasonndandanunsoundsystom of borrowing. They "had not chosen the sbniad system", as ■ tljey had mitt, expended the'money* so as <ra cover'the iricressed in:- --■:. fcerqat, qr form(^4 §ffi^! n S c]' 'Tfviiii they! did' that it mus^ hring disaster, for there was no escape from the tu|qs of ari|;hmotic. Tes|ieid: ])y that;th*e?r railway §;were a faijure aa a cojnoicrcial u'ndpi;baking. EXPENDITURE. ■■•■■■■■-■ They spore cqnjniitted to repay £36,pOQ,ppp,; bat he could no^ fin(j afse^' 'for half that amounb in^"fche^Public Works Departmonl; Mr? 'Wifthy- f then^ ;read f a cut^g frqm a WellfflS^P P&B§r* sPf.ft kißg ■m$. •■' regard fe> .'■-■■tw-i .uselesa. -manner. In which public mpney h^d beeij expended . in •-'tn'S'paefcf:Tßey .haßt Spent threeancl'b'nethird milliona of moneyln making ?oads ? atfd'lftpt year £219;0QO hail been fp,ent, in mfking roa^s. ; £90,0^01 : W^ r^l^'pp^ lasfc year upon public buildings. They haA Bj)ont large sums on educational btii!^ujg8 t wßtcli ':Mso.^ mostly \rbpdeii, and alr"eaay^they'had beep repaired puf gt Ip.an nion«y»l>Jtltt<hat'^ft«nowended,; Withregard W&efmii&i, he' OQul(i only Bay thaystsougJ|J'. ' they MfKP ya]?^! '*t:ssssos, p'MU.jh!§"giin§ :yft^^rp99n I'vP poßolete.. land parctose f?ind showed Ja"b.ouj>rthe '"'.; ■"bi^' 'pjj^'^et^Y7 ■;. ;'•• :■■. ;/'" '~': •;'/:':.'■ : '•'■ ,'r'v^;; WAJS'-|TB^A GiaOAKE^?; . :. fljaoy might iUak tbat hewaaa xr»V), We", »^ them look at. th« 3»du^cn§ w profits, l-rt-os, etc, L 9* /■• fifem toot■■■■& tb^ refcFt*n<jHwenfe^tha «te had been ewapelied to eSwi and

see whether his statements were not correct. Look at the proposal of the lftst session, such as the Fair I^ent BUI and. Village Settlement Spheme. A proposal had also been made, to expend £10,000 ,f or the repurchase of larids, alsp to repeal the Crown Lands Rating BUI. It was also proposed that* a Harbour Board Bill should be passed empowering New Plymouth to borrowrmoiiey to repay .the interest they, owed. Then there was tha loss on the general and district railways. There.were also several prbposals to prbyide special work for the unemployed. Was he not right in presenting a gloomy view of matters^© them ? (Applause; and a voice, "Why^didnt you talk like this down there ? ) The Government now proposed to. abolish the Public Works Department, and to reduce the Native Lands Peparfcnient. They also proposed/ to pu| £107,000 upon taxation which was formerly paid putpf loans; and was a step in the right direction. The Minister of Public Works deservec| credit for his attempts to reduce, the qharge of his department, for his estimated expenditure was about half-a-million less in amount. But tihat showed that their firian? rial policy in the paitf hajj be,en (Wnsound.; With alj fb,i§«; a sum qf £34,Q0Q wp se| down to be expended pn miscellaneous roads this year. Af M^ngere, £I,BQO ,wss aibdut to be expended in the work of repaifJng the bridge. He could only say all credit to the Goyerpment in beginning tp ire^rench.j but; 'jt wpuld not gobii without pressure from the country, bqth on the members and on the Govern- | ment. He saw tbaii jbhe Pramipr was i coming up. shortly, and then, *PeJ ! would have his "remarks in print^ I and * could ask about it £hemselyes. ' (Applause.) If pa?<i' members knew things why tad they not told them in the past? The Government might have their faults, but they deserved support for they had dared to retrench and hadpromised to go further. ■ THey h^ad also promised nQt to go to the pawnshop for a time, and he' hoped that) 1 the" electors would see that they would never do it again. (Applause.) He took it that he hae_ been sent flown to Wellington^ to tell them how things stppd. He Jjook ||i- that these things wer§ an indictinoflt ag^inj.^ thp electors, ihe members, apd thp Government. it'was their fault for sending the members, dpwn without proper instructions.. (A voice : " We instructed you,") He begged that gentleman's pardpnybut $}ey badnbt. He had laid down his tenn^ to th_e electors w|»en they asked him to stand. (Applause; and cries of ''XjQad on you, old nian.") He said to them, " If my ternas will do, send me." .He asked them what hjvd boon tihejp instructions to the members, in th,e {BS^k l^t ''Grrab, grab,, gr§b,"; (Applause.) Np Hpustj ,afld np Gayejiiijmonli ,hf|d^. (Bjei against intelligent public ppiniqn, clearly and honestly expressed. W^nen he appeared before the' electors he was taunted with being a new-comer, I and he now asked whether anyone else had talked to thepi j^s hpneetly a$ he had. (Grif\s of '?Yeg" andj uproar.) Mr! Withy then went op to-spe4k of the floating of public loans, and said that we h|ad , beeri awim,minj« in th^i stream of debt for many years! The time. had come when to WHSfe stsrengthSß our backs while we were shaktng off the incubus of debt that had fallen UDon us. (4 voice : '...'■- Two moro; eession^ .wi^jt'^' you.") They wpu|d never get thd chance. S,e had promised to cay something about interest. ■■■ A 1 tW,e hapk l^apka ,wer§ paying' 4 per' cent. oh deposits at three months, 5, per cent, for six months, and 6 per cent, for twelve moiiths. To-day they were paying 2 p.er cent. whe|e th^y hag paid A'per cent. ; 3 percent.'where they h^id paid 5, and Ai per dent, where they had paid '$. per cent. Large sums ol money 4iadbeon sent hero, and had been refused, and it was that • money sent from Home had even been sent back.: -Large |ptefirestme,aj»t large pvoflisi'ii\ fp^f. npw say a few, words abqijfc w|gesj and he quoted from aßpeech of his given in '' Hansard ''^vhich had fao^ been reported ipi bpth the Auckland papers. He Had stated that the wagß?i?) the public fervic^inust be reducedj and th.a^ the wages paid'iif-th^ railway depar|}nent were abov^ th§ qiarkej value! , (Griea of" " I say no -'and uproar.) H,e had pointed out that if wages were re?' duced } in the railway department, freights would be reduceidi encourage^ and employment increased. (A voice: " Tea bpVa-week and found," and uproar). The. w.ages paid on the railways were for wet weather arid fine ; the cost of living ;aad bj9gn greatly reduced durjng- the)- past few years, and to maintain a higher rate of Wages than we could afford was not right. What) the Govornißeijt had to consider was what were' fair average wages. When the speech which he referred to was gub|isjh.e^ nf had cosies Bt|.uc|c pffj; 4e r gave one to tha. " ilprald^' * reporter. apd; one, tp the Sta|i, reporter. . Tha^ apeech Was published in full by the 'fHeraldi"btlt* he never saw it in the Stab, ho looked for it several times»y:" Thfi :': posed here' ,sis - thfj working man's paper. He, considered it was Btrikiflg, below the belt io cri^ipige a man, and give only extracts from hia speeches. i^ewgpkpeifs should give to,: th^ir' rea.dej| whg^ h?i actually.said, {Appjausd.) '$ff; ha£B the Star did not' give him credit for sufficient intelligence to understand what he wanted to, say. (Uproar). It wa,a perhaps too much to credit him with sufficient intelligence to say what he meant;-The question between the Stab, and himself waß whether or not we should payj 'more than' the market rateof wageel' (A voice %' 'What do you call the markeb " t raite J") That wquJd be a question for tho G.overngieni" carefully ■to consider » Ujaigßtej^| It would not go. by what he (Mr Wilbh|') aaid, vHe stated his belief that the' "men in" railway PPP|.9y *§ra. paid abqyp theayer4ge market rat% and he believed it stilt (Cries™ *ofX '* No" aq(i dissent.) Mr after an appeal' for order by the chair man"," said tH*t ment he had proposed'was made to appear as if it torched Fag^ai only» whereas the^ inoluded classification of the Givil Servicie into; grades, classification of the school teachers into' grades, and a general reduotiou in education. If the m6n in the rail; 'jvay employ were paid fcoo.inudh, it had* to be metiiouti of taxation, and it was not fair $o the outside/ workmen. ;{Hear,' :hear.) The cost of living fya^ decreased,l and if the rate pf wage,a fgr- railway employeesi yere mainfcaiqecfj" thjsyVould be able io "live more pxurious'iy.; '(A yoice ':r (> No.'");: TKe man who said1 "No!: to tliat was an idiot. (Laughjtejf apd i^prpar,) p vtiji j^)sus wages paid in the Civil pervjc^ i |eigulajed the wage§ outgide, bu| he keliejed | iti rw<j'fkgd pie other waj. jO^tside | p§y bag iigfc ogly )jeei» "rgfluggd^ but large of mgij . Mgn pelled. to leayij ihe cqlopy, and yet' we were not to lay larids "upon !the railway 'dep^artmehfcV He'didiipt■desire to set' one bla&s of meri;against''another,'"but'1he rwould rappeal r to--the patriotism ' and"•upsilfishpesfl: of :the railway employees as. toi ; th9 fustice of the, s?Ja|ra. (A yoce, j .ii^ggithiij," And uproa'ic). If the if ages -were reduced there reductions, in freightsJand iaxe^i Mk^y' this means there might be' brought about a return of prosperity. The STAit'*had tried to-"chow that a dompeti tion ' wage Wfts ■ "a v : : wr.png;.. i«|iag'i; _. hut; what, did-we all. get but a competition1 wage ? Hg w.ould. scojfn pofe as th,| working-man'sfrierid, asanyman's merid^ feut he* was riofcPthi eiieioy;;of ■ ajiy,^claas:: (A- ypioe;,r ".Ypu bn6"o|;|no Lori-' dso :' 4^B|oArMS| ■ ■ '".^d ; f^upypfljr:^' ■.'M?j; he was ""an * ariatQcrSb ; who i behpeij .^lßi^Tf,""--"'V'Kw^"wh'ft6.-i.'dJcl. these working men's friends want ? (A1 voice s ;«..«Where are fchfy ?T and jiptpar,) J'hey Iqaw the word " vote " written aoroßa their brows, Mombors in tlio House had* ad? mltfee4 fcliftt lie wfts rlgljii, although they an"**' ;WBre4?«j.:vf:|l^_. r.i^iW"^^%:),s£w>

the names though: they imputed tiU midnight. (Uproar.) He had one word] to say to Mr Hunter. At a previous meeting Mr Hunter had charged him (Mr Withy) with hedging a statement, and hie waived him pff the platform. Hie would never again answer that gentleman at a public meeting. (Mr Hunter ■■yhenjj rose I in the' 'middle of the audiericei andj was hooted down. He then,, rcame for= I ward to the platform, and was met with a storm of hooting.) Mr Withy then went on to sppak of tgeCiviJ Service,, 'anil'he spoke Of the assertions that Civil servants ■ spent the; feesij .'years ' of. their ljfe in the "public employ a? mere, moonshine. Every man spent the best years of his life in his business, and it would be absurd for a barher to be given a retiring Allowance,. (Laughter.) There Ethoi^id tie no retiring allowance or pension to (Hear, tear, a.n<| applause), buj; where a bargain fed beeji made, by past Jegjsjatpre \'t/\(ft bargain should be stuck to. (Applause and di^ent.) $$'■ Wiftyy nexj? dealt with the uses, pf money. deal was sajd abpui keeping money in the colony. Projection wtte adyogated because ;it }cept money in the colony. It had been paid thaji the money spent on education j wa^ not Jpst. bedause it was kept in jthj} colony, and the same thing; was said about wages piaid in thf> cplony. T^r Withy wag of opinion that money had nothing to Idp with it. Money was merely a, vejiicje, I of- exchange. Ifo' was quite satisfied that the public, \ the House and" the pienabers wanted stirring up qn tfye retr^jiohpe^t question, f p,r otherwise' yre wpuld not be able io cope with our diffir culties when they came. - Mr \vYlthy" resumeij his; gea,t §vsd ; ap> plause and uproar, and the Chairman mr vited questions in writing. Questions were answered as follows i-^r He (Mr Withy) did nob vote for a reduction in'Mr Maxwell's salary because his position was a precarious one, and because the Government was empowered to get a man ab £2,500 a year to manage.pur railways. The Government had not been able to get a. mp,n for the raoneyi Mr Maxwell' was Ukely to be one pf thp three commissioners., and he would nob reduce a man's rsatary from wh^' in |i shprf time he would probably Wcsye ! £1,500; (2) he had opposed Sir George, ! Grey's La,w Practitipners >nd always j would dp so (uproar) j (3) the charges for ! fees made in the public schools were fair I because they were for books, slates, etc f which surely could not be expected 'for j nothing ; (4) the • Agent-General gotnot 'a penny pub of the two million loan; (6) he thoughji the school age should be 1 frpm 6 to 16 years, and : thaf thje 'primary, and secondary schools and universities should be very closely linked together ; {fy he did not think'the incidence of taxation should be, altered unlil the cylony had reppygred it; Be}f j (7) he did not know whether a tender of £200 as property tax assessor had been ; accepted wnjle there was a lower tender pf £XSQ, bijfc he thought it a wisp plan that fche lowest pr any tender should, not necessarily be accepted. Mf Thompspfi mtjyed, "Thab ii^ thp ppijuon pf this meeting $ would $e,nd tp criaate healthy public opinion, and. so bone? hj the colony, jf Mr Withy wpuld iWRWfc tq deliver a aerie 3of political addresses, and that this meeting respectfully requests him to do so."

Mr McMqsfcer seconded the resolution, ■jvhich who p- -iod. . ■.' i , -' '3\|V Withy s ' th^ ft? WPT9T ; c||4: fICIJ! mention the remuaeration he was to rd' caiy^""'--; ■-'"■ ■

A yojcft: I rRQve $iaV yog bq paid by results. (Laughter.)"" ." Mr TVithyimpyed-a hearty yote of thwks to tfie O^air^an, was p^Bae4j &m> oh the loqtion of .Mr !§.. Cox, a hear,by.,vafce of thanks and' confidence was accorded to Mr WithyPrpceiedjng? qonclw(Jgd wSlfa cheers ,iqv lylr Withy,