House of Representatives.

Auckland Star, Volume X, Issue 2984, 7 November 1879, Page 2

House of Representatives.

The House met at 2.30, REPORTS AND PETITIONS.

The rcpott of the Select Committee on the Primitive Methodist Temporal Affairs Bill was brought up aud adopted. Mr Thompson presented a petition from Balclutha resident?, praying for the erection of a bridge washed away twelve month* ago and not replaced,

QUESTIONS.

The Government said it was not their intention to establish a tribunal for tho purposes mentioned in the report of the Native Affairs Committee of 1570.,

So far they could say at present it was not the intention of tbe Government to appoint a Minister of Mines with a portfolio scparato from any other office. The Government could not say whether a sum woul<\ be put on the estimates for the purpose of constructing a police station and !\BM. Court at Lyttelton. The question Would bo considered.

The Government did not intend to give effect to the recommendation of the AgentGeneral that his designation should be a'tored to Residout Minister, and that Mr Kenuaway then be styled Assistant AgentGenevc.l.

Mr Shanks asked if tho Government will be prepared to take into consideration during the r.cess the necessity of providing some mei\ns by which provision can be made whereby a township with ■a. less, number of householders than required by the Municipal Act may, if they think fit, form_ themselves into a governing boely, electing, say, five members' to be called a. town board, to whom it shall be compulsory for Conniy Councils nnd Boati Boards on demand to pay over all revenue collected within the boundaries of the said township, aud subsidies received upon the same.

The Premier said the subject would be considered during the recess as it was most important lie believed it would be theduty of the Government to legislate on the subject next session.

COALFIELDS',

Mr Murray asked if the Government will take iuto consideration measures for tho construction of a railway and construction aud improvement of sen ports to encourage the development of the coalfields of the colony. Mr Oliver said these works were being dono, gradually by tho Government in various parts of tho colony, and in maul cases provision was already made.

G. B. WORGAN.

The Pi emier,rcfcrring to a jeqnest of the Native Affairs Committee, jhat George B. Worgan, a prisoner in Wanganui gaol, should bo brought up by order of the Speaker to give, evidence before the Native Affairs Co^niittee,said the Government had in^uire^ iuto the, questions, and although vhe House had power to call for persons aud papers they had no power to recommend such au order to be issued. It was for the House to deal with the matter when they wevo satisfied that tho necessity was sufficiently plain. He would like the committee to explain the necessity to the House.

Mr Moss said if these" demands were made it would be as well to resign the committee's functions to tho House and let them ileal .with the matters placed before. the* committee. Mr Speight said the matter was a very* simple, one. A request was made becausethe evidence could not be obtained by anyother means.

Mr Whitakcr said the petition in question; came from a native who had songbt redress by civil ane\ erim.inal process, but thefact that Worgan, who. was wanted to gfre material evidence, was in gaol, apneavc- to have defeated thoir ease, and hc_ sought redress for the alleged failure of justice. The request that Worgan should be brought before the committee came fromr

a member of the committee only, and he did not approve of a prisoner being brought up to give cvielcnco which might afterwards be used in a case against himself on au indictable offence. Mr Sheehaa said that if tho person had not happened to be in prison nothing would have been heard of this matter, and it was competent for a person to decline to give any evidence which might criminate himself. Mr Seddou said too much patty voice bad bceu thrown into this matter from ils first introduction to the llou3c. He hoped the House would agree to the production of this witness, if they were to do their duly in the case properly and anivc at a conclusion upon all the evidence available. Mr Hamlin, by permission of the House, explained the circumstances of the case b-tore the Committee.

Mr Moorhouse thought the wiit of the Speaker should be read as certainly and conclusively as any writ, and this delay in tho matter of the petition .ought not to have been encouraged by the Government. Mr Ormond objected to such a matter being referred to a committee constituted as this committee was. They had no evidence as to the bona fides of the case, and it was competent to produce prisoners before a Court cf law. He would have been produced before, when a criminal prosecution was commenced, but he was then awaiting his trial for forgciy and the judge refused to order his production becauso it might inteifcrc with his defence to the charge then pending against him, and upon what he hail since been convicted. Ho (Mr Ormond) objected to such a case being handed over lo political committees. Past proceedings had shown that lie could go before committee and discover what its decision would be in certain cases before the decision . was given. He would like the committee to hi restrained from proceeding further in this case until (lio bona tides of the petition were ascertained. He would like to tc.t the feeling of the House on that point, and in order to do so would move as an amendment that the Speakers' warrant do not issue until the committee have lirst ascoitaincd that the petition is bona liile and authorised by the natives concerned, and petitioner has not the means to bring the case before the ordinary Court of law.

Mr DeLautoursaid as a means of presentin • ibis jictitimi he would take upon himself and answer for the bona fides. He then proceeded to narrate theeircuiustniicespf the whole matter which led to the presentation of the petition and to ihe insurmountable eliiliculties in the way of the prosecution of this case before the Oouits of law, and saiel he hoped tho House would oppose a determined opposition to those who countenanced the obtaining of lands by irregular process in their efforts to prevent justice being done to he petitioner in this case. Tne Premier said he thought the reasons given by the Chairman of the Native Petitions were insullieient, anil if the committee were also sati-fied he thought a warrant should issue at once. He did not think that questions which could bo decided by courts of law should be brought before the House, and he was glad that this question had been raised. If the committee reported that in this case the petitioner had' no means of obtaining redress through want of funds lo do so, then it was a matter which should be taken up. He should support the amendment of the member for Olive (Mr Ormond). At the evening s.tting the House resumed the adjoinncd debate. Mr Turnbull said the fact that of the committee having decided as lo the neccss ty for this evidence should be sullicient for the House. In dealing with natives the greatest latitude should be allowed, because of their ignorance, and he must condemn the proposition ot the member for Clivc, which evidently had an ulterior object. But there was another important icason why this matter should begone into. If the fountain was impure at its source who should with confidence drink of its water. The honour of the House was at fctake, unless the charge against one of its members was thoroughly inquired into, and in justice to himself he was aire that the hou. gentleman would be the first to demand the fu'lest investigation to deliver himself from the charge. Mr McLean said he should support the fullest investigation, but did not believe the production of the witness would afford them any light. The charge was ten year old, and was clearly laid from party motives. Mr Tawhai supported the production of the "witness." The committee would be bitter able to understand the matter nnd arrive at a decision after having heard Worgan's evidence in connection with the petition, and he did not see why the House should object to his coming. The committee were iv favour of it, although some opposed it in order that they might thoroughly understand tho question before giving a decision whether, Mr Sutton did promise to give the petitioner a reserve of 350 acres. If the person had been sent for lie might have been here aud back again by the time.

Mr Macandiew said he for one was not biassed in this matter, -whatever the member for Waikouaiti might say. The ellcct of the amendment would be to shelve the question for the session and to insult the committee who had asked for the production of this evidence* Mr Dick said that from all he had heard of the man Worgan the committee would not believe a word of his evidence _ when they got him, hut if they wanted his evidence it was quite right he'should be got without all this opposition, which was not complimentary to a committee appointed by the House. He thought tho amendment of the member for Clive was out of place. Mr Moss defended the committee from the charge of party bias which had been made against them. Mr Lundon looked upon the time as wasted over this discussion. _ He had seen no sign of party on the committee, and repudiated any bias on his part. Mr Sutton said he had an uupleasant task to peiform, after the remarks by the member for Mount Ida. Ho was not awatc until that afternoon that any such charge had been made, and it was the liist time any allusion had been made to a charge of forgery in connection with it. The only part of the whole matter which was true was that referring to the reserve of 350 acres, which' was wanted by the natives. Jt was a part of a balance of some hundred pounds on tho purchasemoney, which was £1,750, and which went out into hands closely connected with the prof est ion of the lion, member for Mount Ida. He was prepared to ask for a_ select committee to inquire into all the circumstances.

Messrs Gisborne and J. T. Fisher condemned the action of the Government in connection, with the matter.

The Speaker then put the question that the word " not" be inserted before tho words "issue his warrant" in the resolution, and that the words of Mr Ormonds amendment be milled thereto, and a division was faken with the following result:—Ayes, 20 ; noes, 44. The Amendment was therefore lost, and the molioß put and carried. The following is the division list ; — N'Oi-s (44).—Adams, Allwright, Andrews, Ballance, Barron.Brycc.De Lautour (teller), Dick Fulton, George, Gisborne, Grey, Hamlin (te)hr), Harris, Hislop.W. J. Hur=t (City of Auckland West), Hutchmson, Ireland, Kelly, Lundon, Macandrcw, Ma"donald, Montgomery, Moorhouse, Mos?, Murray, Pyke, Reeves, Reid, Seddon, fch.anks, Sbceliati. Shepherd,gpaight, Swanson, Taiuui, Tawhai, Te-Wlia.ro, Thomson, 'Pole, Tomoana, Turnbul!, and Walks. Ayes (21).—Atkinson, Rain, Bectham, Driver, Gibbs, Hall, Hursthouse, Mason, McLcnu (teller), Oliver, Ormond (teller), Bollcston, Russell, Seyraour,Stevens, Studholme, Trimble, Whitaker, Willis, Wright, and Richardson.

WELLINGTON.FOXTON EAILWAY. Mr Hutchison obtained leave to ask the question .without notice. He asked the Government if they would accept separate tenders for any lines sanctioned by Parliament, and whether they intend to proceed with the first section of the Wellington. Foxton line. He asked the question became they understood the latter had been accepted, and yet nothing was said to lead them to understand that it would be proceeded with.

The Premier asked that notice be given of the question. He accused the member with acting unfairly la demanding an answer in an off-hand way. Mr Hutchison then gave notice to ask the question next day. CANTERBURY AGRICULTURAL SHOW. Mr Reeves obtained permission to put a question without notice. He asked the Government if it would place the steamer Hinemoa at the disposal of members desirous of attending the Canterbury Agncultutal Show, leaving on Friday night and returning on Tuesday night. The Premier said the Government had received a memorial en the subject asking for on adjournment of the House, hut they ■could not accede to the request. The steamer would, however, bo at the disposal of those members who wished to proceed to Canterbury, aud would leave Wellington on Friday night. ' BIJvLS. The Waiuku Recreation Rcseive, Wellington Harbour Board, New- River Pilot Station Reserve, and Christchurch Drillshed Bills we.c reported to the House, aud leave given to eit a»ain. The Protection of

I.i mals Act, 1873, Amendment Bill was cad a second time. Dramatic Works Copyright Bill was reported with amendment, the Imprisonment for Debt Abolition Bill was reported, and leave given lo sit agaiu on Thursday next. The Onehunga Water Reserve Bill was passed through committee. 3 An amendment was proposed by Mr Swanson, giving Onehunga Borough Council a right of road and free use of water, upon which a division was taken, with the foi lowing result:—.Ayes, 27, Noes, 34 A new clause was sought to be

added, giving tbe Fame power, and ano!htr division taken as follows :—Ayes, 23, Woes, 34. The bills were reported without amendment, and on second reading, Mr Swanson moved that the bill be read a third time that day siv mouths. This was negatived, and the bill passed. LICENSING BILL. Tho House then went into committee on the Licensing Bill Amendment No. 2. Progress was reported and tho House adjourned at 12.30.