Temperatures Rising

Rip It Up, Issue 125, 1 December 1987, Page 20

Temperatures Rising

Brave Words & Assorted Biscuits by Russell Brown

The Hammersmith Clarendon is a crappy, dilapidated venue with poor acoustics, crumbling decor and an excuse for a bar. However it holds up to 1200 people (600 officially) and a lot of good bands play there. The Butthole Surfers, Big Black and the Meat Puppets recently. The audiences for those usually : included a handful of crazy-eyed Californian exiles making some noise.

At the Chills’ showcase Saturday night London gig tonight, all you can hear is the sound of people talking about where they went in Europe this summer, laughing and exchanging addresses. So how long have you been in London? Yes, this is a biggish crowd and there are a lot of Kiwis here. All kinds of Kiwis too — the bonding power of the KZ7 Factor reaches halfway around the world. But there are English people here too — including an A&R man

or three, who are very interested in the Chills’ debut album Brave Words, the release of which has seen a couple of important rave reviews and the makings of a melt of six months of music press indifference towards the Chills (the papers have been trying to sell the “Grebo” wave to the public: amusing concept, crap bands). The tide began to turn with the New Music Seminar in New York in July. American hip press and record companies loved the gigs. Rockpool magazine said, “ 'The Chills’ —

words heard as often at this year’s seminar as ‘here’s my tape, please listen to it,’ and 'let’s discuss it over drinks.’ ”

The man on the Clarendon’s door screwed up the’old tickets into yarrow stalks, threw them on the carpet and declared it would be a good gig. It is a great gig, the London gig the Chills have been waiting to play but probably weren’t capable of before making Brave Words. If the album has a fault it’s that it’s a little shy and muted, but live this is a far better, gutsier, more resolved band than the one which flew out of Auckland earlier this year. The crowd cheers, a few people breathe easier, and one A&R man says he’s staking his monthly pay cheque on this one, whatever that means.

— you've finally gone and made an album. It must seem bizarre, in retrospect, that you’ve gone six years without one.

Martin Phillipps: “Yeah, it really is. I suppose the oddest thing at the moment is that I’ve never really known what it was going to sound like because the bands kept changing and my expectations were always different. And so accepting this as the finished

album is quite hard. Especially seeing as we've done Peel Session versions of some of the songs and you start to think you’ll never really get the final version. But in the last week or so I’ve become aware that we’ve

actually done what we hoped we would. And there's still a lot of room to build for the next one." There's an obvious sense of getting good, clean verson of those songs. It’s almost a documentary in that respect. “Yeah. Because this album, probably more than any other one we do, will be the one that’s played to the greatest number of people who haven’t heard us yet. So what they’ll need to hear is the strength of the songs and a bit of power, without the power drowning the songs, which is always the temptation.” ‘Dark Carnival’ is one of the most striking things on the album, probably more assertive than the rest of it — and it was a studio creation? “I took in a whole lot of scraps of the song, and the idea was to do it like ‘Dream By Dream’ on The Lost EP, have everyone throw in crazy ideas and come out with something. But it was a bad day basically, and I ended up having to do the whole thing myself, which wasn’t what I’d wanted. “I don’t know, I suppose there were expectations about this band that weren't really realistic. This band still can’t jam together properly — not in the way I always envied bands like the Stones and the Clean being able to do. I think we’re capable of it, there are just a lot of barriers on different levels to break down before we can. And that was what came out of that day with ‘Dark Carnival’ — we’re not the sort of band yet that can get ideas flowing that quickly in the studio. Well, it didn't work that day anyway.” Another notable thing about ‘Dark Carnival’ is that it’s got, gasp, a drum machine on it... “Yeah. I’m still not sure quite why. Caroline programmed in this beat as a guide beat. We recorded everything else and the drums were the last thing and it became obvious that she couldn’t drum as precisely as the drum machine — who can? — and the song by that time was really depending on the absolute precision of that rhythm. So, much against what I would have decided two years ago, I thought it sounded great with the drum machine. The song’s about insanity and I quite like it like that, the way it doesn’t stop, you can’t find the human in the drum machine. “A 150 feel a bit gleeful about it because we tackled a tiny slice of technology and

won. That’s really good, and what I intend doing a lot more on the next album is not running away from the capabilities of 80s technology, but actually trying to use it to get a Chills sound.”

Have you tried to broaden your own listening tastes here? “Well I got a friend of mine to make me up a taste of hip-hop stuff, but I haven’t had a chance to listen to it a lot. Last night I watched the Stump video for ’Big Bottom’ and I think that’s more where my modern music interests lie rather than hip-hop. I need to hear more music, but I think the Chills’ music is going to naturally evolve into something more modern anyway.” There’s a lot of potential for achieving sounds in Chills’ songs using modern technology ... “Now that we’ve overcome the fact and we’re not afraid of using samples and that kind of thing, when they’re right. When they're right they can be really powerful. And it opens up so much room in terms of what we can do. The imagination really is the limit with those machines. And still at the core of it all I came from a guitar-orientated background and I know where my rock music strengths lie. But it’s the combination of those things which is going to be interesting.” I « *■ n the big soup of the music scene, the press is expected to play a part in making some sense of the milieu. They find it helpful to sort things into boxes. The Chills have been placed firmly in the box marked “White Indie Rock,” along with the likes of the Weather Prophets, Bodines, Mighty Lemon Drops and 60s period stylists Primal Scream. Do you feel at home in that box? , “Not really. Not that those other bands aren’t, but we’re going places musically. A lot of it seems very stagnant — and very old hat. Not that the Chills is totally new, but I can’t think of a single song that sounds like someone else. Or even wholly a style — like ‘Look for the Good’ is punk rock, but it’s still a bit different from that. I’ve got a whole stack of R&B songs I don’t know what to do with!” Hopefully the album should finally free you of labels like “jangle pop.” “Or ‘psychedelic,' yeah. It’s a strange album overall..! can’t place it myself yet, be-

cause I’m still too close to it to actually hear it alongside anyone else’s record. But it doesn’t sound to me like any other record, and for that reason as a record listener I find it hard to imagine actually getting it out of the shelves and playing it. The record covers too many areas to put on at one time. There’s a bit of party music on it and a bit of sitting-round-quietly-by-yourself-to-music music. If you were sitting quietly and ‘Look for the Good’ came 0n... “It might turn out to be a bit of a failing actually, we’ll just have to see how it's taken.” It might serve well as a sampler; a tin of assorted biscuits. “But they’re all going to be like that, that’s the trouble. They’re all going to be a real cross-section — otherwise we’ve failed I reckon. So far there’s been quite a mixture — the last single [‘House with a Hundred Rooms,’ which will probably see NZ release after the album] had three very different areas. It’ll be interesting to see how it’s taken, talk to a few music listeners.”

H •4-U .I , ouse with a Hundred Rooms’ marked a nadir in press attention to the Chills. It’s easier to get noticed as Pop Will Eat Itself, with ‘Beaver Patrol’ than as the Chills with ‘House,’ a soft, subtle little farewell to a dead friend ...

There are rather a lot of words on the single — and quite a few on the album for that matter. “Yeah — it’s something I’ve decided to watch for. There’s the single and songs like ‘Speak for Yourself,’ which is like a continuous stream of words. They mean a lot to me— I got onto a theme and had so many words to get into the song that it was crowded. But it doesn’t bother me, because if I was a listener I could read it and read it and still find things that are worth dwelling on. “And I can explain every word on any of those tracks, which I don't think is always the case with a lot of writers these days. Of late it’s been really important to me to make full use of lyrics. Not the least reason being having a girlfriend with a literary fixation. It’s been really driven home to me the power of words. Obviously it’s possible to go overboard, get too poetic and self-indulgent, but I think I’ve avoided those traps. “I want to keep up that level of intensity in a way, whether it be light-hearted or a bit more

solemn, but also to tone it down a bit, bring it to a better level. Because I really love a lot of Ramones’ lyrics, and pop lyrics where you can actually say something in the smallest amount of words. Like Alan Moore in his comics — you’ll read a little paragraph, just skim through it then think, ‘wait a moment,’ and read it again and there's not a word out of place, it’s all been thought through so carefully.” ‘Speak’ is one of the “destiny” songs on the album — very much one foot up on the rock and gazing boldly into the future. There’s not too much that’s frivolous ... “Not sort of jellyhead ‘Kaleidoscope World’ type things, no. It’s a matter of if you’ve got to choose between that and one of your more impressive, enjoyable songs, there’s no choice really. That’s another trap — there are a couple of lighthearted ones coming up.”

et’s talk Noo Yawk. You landed there from jaded, fickle London and suddenly it was all different... “Yeah — it was like going back to New Zealand in terms of the initial excitement the Chills met the first time we left Dunedin and started touring round. Just people coming up to you and saying: ‘You’re the best thing I’ve seen in ages, thanks for coming.’ It was nice to be appreciated again.” Why hasn’t that happened here in Britain? “I don’t know — we haven’t played as much as we should have and we know that now, looking back. We’d hoped to make every gig count, but so many of them went wrong for stupid reasons, bad PAs, bad bills with other bands, just bad gigs. We’ve had our fair share of problems this year in England. And I think the core of the problem lies with the press. They just weren’t there — it was like we’d been done the last time we came. We were a new thing then and they were all excited, but we were an old thing by the time we came back. And we were feeling too fresh and young to be treated as an old thing — it was like a slap in the face.” It will be amusing if things go as well as they conceivably could and you end up getting held up by the NZ music industry as some kind of Crowded House-type success. How would you feel about that? “It would have been clear-cut three years

•ago. Those people, the major music industry and the radio, hadn’t helped us at all. And I don’t want to downplay what TV’s done for us but I think they only did what they had to’ given the profile of the band, if they were going to be seen to be interested in New Zealand music. That’s what started to happen on the radio too — they only started playing our music when they realised they had to because it was getting ridiculous. And ha ha to them, ‘Leather Jacket’ came out as a single, probably the most unradiolike of all our singles. If they’d picked up earlier it wouldn’t have been quite so embarrassino for them.

“But now I’m sure we’re going to go home to, y’know, people who’ve been putting us down now coming up to us and saying they’re really proud of what we’re doing and they’ve always believed in us ... It’s just tricky because of the band changes; a lot of them have the excuse of saying, ‘Now that you’ve finally got a serious band we’re going to support you.’ And that’s not true and it’s not fair.”

■*l.--you see yourselves anywhere in me iiue of national confidence back home? The KZ7 of the NZ indie scene, perchance?

“We had that sort of KZz crowd coming up before we left and it was quite odd. We don't know how they came upon the Chills. And more important to me, I don’t know where the other people went — why they didn’t even come out and have a look. There were a lot of longterm Chills fans whose faces I didn’t see once. Especially in places like Christchurch, where you’d really get to know faces in the crowd. It really made me angry. Because the band was Auckland-based, because the whole idea of the Chills was old, no one was keen any more. I suppose I can understand that but it’s no good for me. I’m still trying to struggle to achieve things.” Do you think you'd have done the same as an audience member? “Mmmm — without a doubt. I’m the most hypocritical of the lot. I used to rubbish the Clean for their slightest faults. I’m glad I did because I think a lot of my criticisms of them were valid. I used to say it to their faces and we’d have arguments and stuff. But looking back, I didn’t realise at the time just how important the Clean were. They’re still one of the best bands I’ve ever seen or heard in

the whole world. “And Toy Love, even though Chris Knox downplays Toy Love’s importance compared to the Enemy; I thought the Enemy probably were the better of the two bands, but in terms of achievements, ramming it down the industry’s throat, Toy Love were marvellous. It was like a real pride thing, being part of the crowd with Toy Love, that whole sort of family thing. At the time it was really exciting.” Maybe that sense of community is one of the things missing here in Britain. “There’s just no feeling here now, there really isn’t. The bands don’t stick together, there’s no movement. I can't imagine what the next movement’s gonna be but I’m worried that we’re going to be hit like Split Enz were here — coming over in their art school makeup and getting hit by punk rock and written off. I’m really hoping that doesn’t happen to us here, some incredible new wave of music coming along and us being regarded, as old hat and being brushed aside. “But it really doesn’t look like there is, and in bands we’re as likely to come across it as anyone. And if it’s going to be what I'm hoping it is, we’re more likely than most bands to put it forward when it comes up. It’s got to be ... where the 60s were rebelling, really naive rebellion, and punk rock was kind of anarchic rebellion, the next one has got to be really sensible and really thought-out. “Musically, obviously, it's shaping up for a turn back to melody — that’s gonna please me. And I’m sure it will, because I’ve got a lot of respect for rhythm but I don’t think it’s ever the most important element in a song. I’d put melody and rhythm side by side, but it seems now that rhythm is the most important thing." rip • J-Lo me the Chills are still like the underground band slowly working its way up. And I can’t see why we should change our ideals, we’re achieving everything we want to achieve. And I hope we’re setting a very good example — I want to.” Those are principles that have hard implications for your immediate position. “Like having to turn down a major record company’s vast financial offer because you don’t agree with their terms.” In the event of anything happening in America there will be a few people queuing up to say the Chills have sold out. ’'3-?' ■’

“I’ve accepted the fact there are going to be people like that. And if they feel like that, they’re not Chills fans to me, they’re not people who understand what’s going on. They may be music listeners and music lovers, but they haven’t got their heads together with it, they’re not really thinking.” The question of loyalty to Flying Nun must be difficult. You’re as aware as anyone else of Flying Nun’s significance. “More aware than most people I think. I was there when the Clean met Roger Shepherd for the first time and Roger came out and said he wanted to do this. I’ve been there right from the start and that’s what I believe in, but we’ve reached the stage where Flying Nun can’t support us anymore. That’s how it is in black and white — the company recognises it.

“It’s been a major factor in our unhappy times this year, when we’ve had them. But there’s no way that Flying Nun is going to come out of the Chills badly. It’s of major importance to the whole band, which is quite surprising seeing as I’m the only one who has come from the Flying Nun stable. If Flying Nun haven’t got the resources to support us overseas then I think it’s our responsibility to move on rather than stretch those resources even thinner for everyone else on the label.”

The breakthroughs seem to be happening now.

“Yeah, they seem to be. Bands like the Verlaines are being looked at more seriously by overseas record companies because the Chills have actually been to America now. It’s a serious fact. And now the Verlaines are coming over, that’s really good. It’s hard to say, but I don’t think the Verlaines would have come overseas had the Chills not come over — whereas I think Sneaky Feelings would have come anyway. Those bands are going to come here and while they might not find things any easier, the territory is mapped out, risks that we’ve taken and haven’t paid off won’t be taken again. Again, Toy Love took an awful lot 0f... shit, so other people could walk in their place.” Do you have any idea of a responsibility to what’s in you? “I’m very true to that, and it becomes tricky when you realise you’ve got three members of the band, the manager, and eventually it’s going to grow into a sound crew, a lighting crew, agents and stuff, all relying on you to earn their living. Staying true to yourself becomes progressively more difficult.”

Come to any theories about your own

creativity? “Yeah, millions ... can you be more specific?” Well, maybe in terms of what William Hurt said, collecting an Oscar a couple of years ago, about “Love not yourself in the Art, but the Art in yourself.” And Jung was always pretty big on the creative element being something that lives people, rather than them living it. “Well I know that I’m very much living my life for my art, at the expense of things all around the place. Love is very important to me, but if love was going to come between me and music there wouldn’t be any choice, because my perfect love would include my music in it. I could end up a very lonely old man because of it, but it’s really something I haven’t got much choice about."

W like “spiritual” have like "spiritual" have popped up fairly regularly in writing about the Chills. What’s your perspective on that? “Well, I hope they do. Because in the lyrics I go to that extent — and probably more in the music than the lyrics. 'Night of Chill Blue’ and ‘Whole Weird World' are two angles on the New Zealand countryside, which is very spiritual to me. They certainly make me think of New Zealand.,l don’t expect them to make anybody else think of New Zealand but it’s my angle on it." The whole thing of the land — the very act of leaving makes you much more conscious of what it means to you. “Yeah, I think so. Because a very important part of me is New Zealand. It irritated me thinking about 15 Maori who went to Fiji and talked about kicking all the white people out of New Zealand. Because I’m a New Zealander and there’s no other place I feel attached to. I feel as deeply about the land and as attached to it as any Maori would. “We’ve come to the stage now where you can’t dwell too much on the past. It’s got to be in the future, the answers. Everyone just needs to keep their heads. All this sort of anger — ‘anger is an energy,’ John Lydon — I really believe that. I think the energy from anger can be used a lot more constructively and positively. To be dark and gloomy and full of hate is the easiest and cheapest way out. It’s so much easier to create art like that too. It’s much harder to be positive. •