Minutes from Midnight PETER GARRETT

Rip It Up, Issue 92, 1 March 1985, Page 8

Minutes from Midnight PETER GARRETT

Russell Brown

It’s only the first day of his national speaking tour but Peter Garrett is tired. He’s been talking all day apart from his lunchtime speech to hundreds of students at Auckland University there have been interviews and a press conference, as well as dozens of individual queries to be fielded after the speech. And then there’s another speaksing “gig” with the Topp Twins at the YMCA at 8.30. The next week will see more or less the same scenario up and down the country not bad for a singer from a Sydney rock band who has suddenly found himself standing on a stage alone as an anti-nuclear spokesman. “Still,” someone muses. “At least he doesn’t have to spend hours soundchecking.”

Amidst it all, Garrett has agreed to come down to Progressive Studios to contribute his face (well, his entire head...) to the video for Left, Right and Centre’s anti-tour single ‘Don’t Go! He arrives up the stairs, a little late, and fairly quickly becomes the focus of attention. As he waits while the decision is made on what tie's doing first, he talks to Martin Chill, who is there loading out the band's gear. Yes, he's heard the Chills, likes them, says they’re getting played on a few student stations across the Tasman, offers some advice.

He’ll do the video filming first, it’s decided. He and the crew and the record’s co-producer Don McGlashan retire into a rehearsal room which has, on this sticky Auckland day, become like a cross between a sauna and a padded cell. Afterwards, Garrett is keen to go to the coffee bar downstairs to talk. The coffee bar is closed. There isn’t anywhere suitable nearby so it’s back up to the hot, busy studio. We eventually sit down in the studio room, with Garrett ironically backdropped by Progressive’s big mural of New York. Peter Garrett is as co-operative and articulate as if it is the first time he has spoken about nuclear disarmament all day.

From your speech today and the general thrust of what you’ve been saying here, it seems that a major function of your tour is a bit of consciousness-raising among New Zealanders to remind them of the significance of what we, through our government, are doing with the nuclear ships ban. Is that accurate? “Yes, I think that’s very true. I think it’s very dif-

ficult for anybody to really know what kind of affect they're having on other people and for nations to know what kind of effect they’re having on other nations if they are geopolitically removed from the world stage. I think we get a feeling in Australia of being removed and in New Zealand I think it’s almost one further stage down. Not in terms of isolation, but just removedness, you’re not in the middle of it all. And because of that and the fact that the only picture you have of what effect you’re having on the world is what comes through the straight media, it’s probably very difficult for New Zealanders to appreciate just what kind of impact they’re having and the way that impact is manifesting itself. And the impact is extraordinary and it’s manifesting itself all over the place. And I'm very aware of that simply because I’ve been able to travel and pick up on it in different places so I do see one of the very necessary things to do while I’m here is to try and communicate some of that feeling to Kiwis. Just say ‘Hey, even though you feel cut away and very small and tiny down at the bottom end of the Pacific Ocean, in actual fact you're exercising an influence and a presence which is considerable."

I think there’s almost a touch of unreality about the whole thing for people here. "Yeah well, it’s happened. This is history folks and you guys are right in the middle of it, of your own doing, with a legitimate government, with a Prime Minister and a policy which has gone right up against one of the superpowers. The kind of bold steps that people in many countries would like to take, you’ve taken, you’re the first. It’s very dramatic and significant times."

Aside from the obvious moral boost to likeminded people in other countries, do you think there is much chance of concrete political action following on from New Zealand’s?

“Yes, I think so. I think well find the fallout if you’ll excuse that word from the New Zealand position in Greece, to a lesser extent Spain, the smaller European countries and some of the Scandanavian nations quite considerable. I think that as the awareness of what's taken place actually sinks in there I think well see, as the awareness of what’s taken place actually sinks in there, you’ll see a very real global political adjustment because of what the New Zealanders have done. And I think that in a sense it will make it very difficult for the Americans, because if they actually get very heavy and decide they want to punish New Zealand further then, for example, in Australia it brings out our sympathies and we gravitate further towards our neighbours. And if, on the other hand, they stop, which is what they should do and what we’re hoping they do, then in a a sense you’ve done it you’ve won.”

There’s also the fact that our action is an expression of support for smaller nations like Palau, who have been having an even less equal struggle against the USA.

“Absolutely. In terms of the Pacific context, it’s again significant that a smaller nation, but a much bigger nation that the one that’s gone before it has started to take a step. I’m happy that it’s Nuclear-Free Independent Pacific Day today and that I’m a part of it. I’ve stressed time and time again at home that Australia should consider itself part of this region. This is where we are we’re the big bloody flat place in the middle so let’s get with it.”

There’s already been one apparent political effect on Australia already with Bob Hawke’s backdown on co-operation with MX missile tests can you see many other changes in the near future?

“Yes, I think the ship visits are going to see a much stronger public concern and people getting out onto the ships than we’ve had before. It’s also making Australians consider the nature of the relationship between their country and the United States, because it seems that Mr Hawke’s in a sense taking direction from Mr Reagan to tell Mr Lange what to do. And I don’t think Australians appreciate that.”

Onto your Senate candidacy for the Nuclear Disarmament Party I saw at least one article which was pretty cynical about it, questioning your motives, even suggesting your standing was a promotional gambit for the band. What was the general attitude of the press during the campaign?

“I think that one was isolated. I think a lot of the media responded in the end very favourably to the candidature. But I think there was a feeling amongst some of the straight media that this person wasn’t really genuine and that they were doing it to further the interests of the band. They were people who had no knowledge of Midnight Oil at all. I then spent a great deal of time going back and explaining my case. I didn’t feel I had to, I felt that the record spoke for itself and that ultimately the true reasons for what I was doing would become clear, which I think they have actually done. But of course there was a very strong feeling in Australia of who was this person, coming out of nowhere and lecturing the Prime Minister and abusing conservative politcians. Who the hell was this guy? How dare he? I don’t have any problem on a one-to-one level with these people in fact I found it easier to conduct the campaign in the face of people who had animosity towards me because that allows me to charge the arguments back at them really strongly. I've really gone out and won my case on TV and radio, but with the print media, a lot of people who haven’t come and confronted me have been inclined to write this sort of stuff. But we ignore them."

The situation here has been quite interesting, with even the conservative press getting increasingly behind Mr Lange. It’s unusual. “Yeah there’s also another aspect of it for New Zealand which goes past the nuclear question and that’s the question of sovereignty. And when it goes as deep as that, you are first and foremost New Zealanders and the sort of policies you want to enact you expect to be able to be enacted and articulated by your elected leader. And you don’t want someone coming in and upsetting the aople cart and telling you you can't do it simply because it doesn't go along with their policy even if they are the biggest son of a bitch in the valley. I think that’s the kind of response you’re seeing and I think it’s healthy on-

ly in the sense that at least it affirms nationalism to a good end.”

Back to the NDP. Now that it’s all counted up and settled and Jo Valentine has turned up as your only representative, how much effect do you think she’s going to have? “It’s difficult to know at this stage what Jo Valentine’s position will be clearly she’s going to be an independent, but whether she’s going to end up aligning herself with the Labour Party or anyone else a lot and how much influence she’s going to be able to bring to bear, we don’t know. We don't really expect her to have a great deal of input into legislation and certainly she won't be determining the outcome of votes. We see Parliament as being a legitimate platform for an articulate anti-nuclear spokesperson to operate from. We see Parliament as providing us with those resources and we see an opportunity for that person in the house to address herself to those matters of legislation which relate to the nuclear issue.”

The NDP went into the campaign as a selfconfessed single-issue party. Can you see it ultimately turning into a broad-fronted alternative or radical party?

“l think that things are happening sufficiently dramatically and so quickly at present that it’s difficult to make any kind of accurate predictions as to what will happen in the future. I do believe that the kind of influence we’re having on the electorate and on other political parties and political groups is pretty strong and if there is to be the development of some kind of broad, alternative political coalition, then we may well be a part of it. But whether that will happen in two years or not I don’t know. We do have Green parties in Australia, but they’re pretty small. They’ve got good people in them but they're not very well organised the NDP is pretty well organised. One of the things I’ve tried to stress is that you've got to be well organised and you’ve got to have your act together. You can’t sit and around and talk, you’ve got to do. And in a sense we’ve been able to get past the arguments that a lot of small groups have about what the other issues that are important are. And I’m hoping that kind of debate is going to exist outside the NDR rather than within it, because I think that would really slow us down. But at some point there may be a chance for us to join up with other people. I personally would like to see a broader-based political alternative at some stage in the future. I’m not saying I want to be the person who gets up on the TV and talks about it, but I think that it’s very healthy and very necessary. I think it’s great to say no to nuclear weapons but you’ve got to start saying no to all the other stuff that goes with

them. We’re really talking about renewable energy, sustaining economies ... We’re going to see an enormous crash here in the Western World in economies within the next two years I would guess. So people who are talking about that sort of stuff will generally get a lot of people, left and right on their side.” Do you see yourselves as giving a shot in the arm to the left and the rank and file of the ALP in that you’ve challenged Hawke’s moderate line? "Yeah, providing they don’t come round and beat me up first!’’ (laughs) The nuclear issue does seem to have brought the left of the party more back into focus. "We can only hope, we can only hope ...” You have a strong Labour background yourself, don’t you? "Yes, I was a Labour voter” Do you still have faith in the Labour movement, in the light of what has happened? "In the light of what’s happened here I do. And I’m not that far removed from social democrat parties, provided that can institute change. But if they themselves are products of structures that cannot change and thus cannot change either, then we’ve got to go somewere else. But no, I’m not totally disillusioned with it. I’m hoping that the purpose of the Nuclear Disarmament Party will be to get these issues back onto the agenda properly and then I can go back to making music.” Obviously your fellow band members are behind your actions in temporarily stepping away from the band for the sake of this cause but won’t there come a time when the business people you have committments to will kick up a fuss? "Sure, absolutely. That’s just something that I’ve got to try and work out with them this year. I think I’ll probably get to a point where I’ll wake up in the morning and say wow, how long is it since I picked up a guitar? How long is it since I sang? How long is it since I’ve just sat around and been a muso which is really what I am. And is that part of my life going to go again? I’ve got to figure those things through. In a sense I have my own committment to going out and working some of these issues through if it’s useful to do so and the Oils are right behind me. I also think it’s good, especially in Australia, where we’re a big band, to disappear for a while and let other bands come into the gaps.” The interesting thing is in this country you’re almost certainly better known as an antinuclear activist than as a rock singer in a band called Midnight Oil. "Yeah, that is quite fascinating . . .’’ Do you think change is going to depend on the emergence of other spokesmen with youth ap-

peal, people who are charismatic to the young, rather an established politicians or activists? You confessed yourself to being a relative “Johnny-come-lately” to the cause in your speech today. "I think it’s just fortuitous if you’ve got a famous mug and you’re well known and you’re a ‘rock star; as they call you, then it’s a great thing to be able to leap into this with. But at the same time my campaign would only have sustained itself on its celebrity aspect for about a week, unless there was something behind it. You’ve got to have that ability to articulate and to understand it and go out and do it. And I think I’m just probably well-equipped for doing that, because I’m used to dealing with the media, I’ve been able to pick up that skill in the Oils. Media manipulation, too, is very important here. I don’t like to use that term too openly, but that’s really what it’s about. You’ve got to use it because it’s using you and there must be give and take in it. And I think there are a lot of people in the peace movement around the world who just don’t understand that. They’ve tended to see the media as the enemy and that’s that. They complain when they don’t get the coverage whereas we go out to create media events. I think people here know that now but in other parts of the world they don’t. So it’s helpful if you’ve got that big profile, but I don’t think it’s necessary, no.” You also mentioned the fact that everyone seems to have a war song or a war slogan or a war t-shirt at the moment. Do you think that kind of pop sloganeering has a great affect, or is it just fashion? "I think it is having an effect. Because really when you put on a t-shirt that says ‘No Nuclear Weapons In My House’ or whatever, you are making a statement. It’s like listening to a political lyric whether you’re listening to it because you think it’s cool or because you want to, it ultimately has a residual effect on you, it lodges in the subconscious somewhere and of course if you’re wearing it, everybody else sees it. All these things are cumulative. I think it’s a real mistake in terms of assessment of what’s going on to apply a levelled, or things-affecting-things view to it. I think that there’s so much meshing, cultural, political and personal meshing that in a sense things can come from all directions. So I think anti-nuclear fashion is fantastic, even if sometimes it’s just fashion. Because in a sense it’s the next step Boy George and his crowd would never have written songs about this sort of thing five years ago. It’s become their reality and so they’re writing songs about it. It becomes the reality of the people who buy the record. Even if it only lodges for a second, that’s all it takes.”

There’s a neat aspect to your situation in that you’ve signed on the line with this great big company CBS, who are currently tolerating you because you’re a kind of novelty and ... "... how long is it going to last we all ask!? Wait till they hear the next lot! Ooooh!” Do you think the company is going to get the wind up? "Not so long as they can still make money out of me.” Finally, if all goes well and our government holds its stand, what would you hope to have ensued within, say, a year’s time, or further ahead? “Well I would hope that countries like Australia, but even more so the middle powers, the Group Of 21 and others, who quite clearly wish to start moving away from policies which advocate the building, deployment and use of more nuclear weapons will have responded to the New Zealand and that there’ll be some kind of foundation which has been laid by New Zealand and we’ll be able to start to turn the thing round a little bit. We’ve got the Non-Proliferation Treaty and some other important events this year and I think that the action , which is a precursor to that, which are very important matters and I think that the action of New Zealand is going to highlight those things. At the same time it’s quite clear that the build-up by the Americans shows no sign of stopping. In my view there will be a radical escalation of activity through Europe and America and Australia, direct actions, which will seek to confront and deal with it because people will be as scared as they are now. And New Zealand in a sense will be our model, our role goal. And that’s why people here have to really appreciate the great significance and they affect they’re having everywhere else and support Mr Lange and the party evry strongly. In Europe, East and West and in America, where people have missile silos in their back yards and are surrounded by nuclear weapons, the level of fear is extremely high and now what we’re seeing is almost a Nuclear Psychosis overtaking us. And I spend a lot of my time in Australia trying to turn that fear into some kind of action. I think there’s action here which turns our fear in Australia and other countries into hope. And that’s a very significant change in the human consciousness and perception of things it’s very, very important. You’ve created, in 1985, a nuclear-free state and that is a big and bright light for the rest of us. I think there’ll be strong actions towards that and I hope it keeps burning well. Beyond that, I can’t really say. All I know is this movement is on the move, it’s rolling, it’s growing and it’s not going to go away or stop. We can’t afford to.”