1.—13 a.

If you opened in Temuka you would employ a manager who lived there, the staff would live there, and you would pay rates and taxes on that business in Temuka ?—I would bring my profits to Timaru. You would not discourage people coming from Temuka into your store at Timaru ? —Would you discourage them ? If these people are attracted into my shop surely lam justified in accepting them, but to go out into their district I think is wrong. But you do not mind them coming into your shop. It would be more convenient for the people in Temuka to go into one of your shops in Temuka ? —lt probably would be ; as a matter of fact I have had invitations to go there. You said the new system of trading has made work easier ? —Yes, meaning that I have no books, no accounts to worry about, no bad debts, and no delivery. You say that your staff is handling three times the amount of goods they used to handle, how would that be easier ?—lf I had my present turnover and worked under the old system I would require another five or six men to do the work. The Chairman.'] Would you have been in a position to lower your overhead by employing a different type of labour ? —Yes, I could have done by employing two lads instead of older men and comply with the award. On the same class of work ? —Yes. I could get lads as efficient as men. You are a believer in paying good wages ?—Yes, I believe in paying a man well for what he does. Your evidence is to the contrary : you can get assistants at a cheaper rate to displace men on higher wages ? —I could, but Ido not. You have displaced men by the cash-and-carry method ?—The cost of the goods has been reduced. Naturally.

George Robertson Horsburgh, Managing Director, Cut Rate Providers, Ltd., Hawera, cross-examined. Mr. O'Leary.] Under what conditions do you operate ? —I give a comprehensive service, discriminate delivery, and discreet credit. I give a very discreet accommodation ; as regards service I would not send a tin of tobacco three miles away. In what towns do you operate ? —Eltham, Stratford, Manaia and Patea, and Hawera. How many stores ? —Seven, three in Hawera. Not only grocers, also drapers ? —Yes. When did you start in New Zealand ? —1921. Prior to that, where did you have experience ? —Scotland and the United States. Do you know of the proposed amendment to the Bill?— Yes. Are you opposed to it ? —Definitely. Would you just give the Committee your reasons ? —Firstly, I take a long view ; I am afraid of the length that it will extend to. At the present time I have thirty-five employees, some of these are girls. My particular reason for taking up such a definite stand towards this amendment is that lam afraid of what may happen. As the Act stands at present there is every facility to enforce prices ; I think that many proprietary articles are being sold to-day at a fixed price. I' would like to point out, firstly, that it is rather significant that certain big bargain stores operating through this country to-day advocate —if they do not advocate they welcome —fixed prices, because they can sell such lines as tooth-pastes, cosmetics, &c., to the public with a 33|-per-cent. return. This enables such stores to sell cheap, tawdry, inferior articles made by workmen in the Orient, who are threatening to throttle our own secondary industries ; these articles are landed here at a ridiculously low price, and I have evidence that they are sold at a ridiculously low profit because any loss made can be offset by handsome profits obtained on fixed price lines. I submit that if this is carried through it will lead to vicious price-cutting such as we have never witnessed before, and I also submit that if this amendment is carried it is going to lead to the dismissal of several grocers and shop-assistants throughout the country. At the present moment we have several little shops throughout the country operated by women who will tell you that they have business acumen ; they carry on these shops while their husbands hold down another job, and if the amendment is carried we will have this practice greatly increased. It is very difficult for ordinary traders to compete with this class of business, and the result will be that we shall have to dismiss several of our men—they will find themselves unemployed. If prices are fixed ? —Yes. At the present time I cannot see what more fixation we want. Your prices compare with your competitor's ?—I never let them be higher. Do you succeed ? —Fairly well. What have you to say in regard to the practice of selling some lines at cost or under cost \ —A properly commercially trained man would not sell at cost or under cost. I will emphasize again that the very people who are seeking to have this amendment brought about are the very ones very often who sell at such levels. Do your numbers of employees fluctuate ? —Yes. I shall be starting three assistants this week, and as the season goes on the numbers will increase ; I employ a much larger number at Christmastime. What is the reason of that ? —A seasonable trade. You consider that if the prices are fixed for grocery commodities it will lead to unemployment ? — Yes. Wages have to be paid according to award ? —Yes. How do you pay ?• —Very often above award rates ; if the employee is over average efficiency he gets over the award rates, but I never pay less than the award rates.

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