LIEUT. MACDONALD.

25

I.—7A

22. For the information of the Committee you might say generally what those quarters were? —Generally good. 23. There were complaints about the windows not being opened? —When I first received men into detention the windows were not barred down. I decided to put the bars on, md my orders were not strictly carried out, and the bars were put on in such a way that the v. indows would not open fully —about an inch top and bottom. It was very cold weather at the time, and Captain Newell suggested that it would be better if the windows were allowed to open freely. The bars were removed; I gave the order as soon as the medical officer suggested it. The rooms were open right up to the vault of the roof. 24. How high?—To the top. 25. Hon. Mr. Anstey.] Of what was the roof composed? —Wood and iron, matchlined. 26. Hon. Mr. Allen. ,] The rooms are not separate?— Yes, four of them. 27. I mean, does the partition wall <ro right up? —Not all the way up. There is a small passage between the rooms, and a man could climb over from one room right down to another; they used to throw things from one room to another. 28. Tell us generally what you can recollect. Were they properly looked after medically? —In every case of sickness I employed the services of a medical officer as soon as possible. There was a man named Robson who had attacks of biliousness and he was prescribed for; that man also afterwards got a sprained knee. I took a medical officer over to examine him a day or two before his discharge, and he prescribed a course of treatment for his knee, and he also examined him with regard to his general health and reported he was fit. 29. How often did the medical officer come? —When required. 30. No regular visits? —No, only when required. 31. As a matter of fact, how many times did he come —once a -week? —No, not regularly once a week; on one occasion he came three times a week when there was necessity. It depended on the medical officers themselves; they repeated their visits as often as they thought necessary. 32. In regard to the quarters, were they quarters that were used by the officers of the Garrison Artillery —did the officers sleep there? —Yes. 33. Are they very bad quarters?— They are not first-class bedrooms, certainly, but they are not at all bad. The captain of No. 4 Artillery sleeps in one, and some of the non-commissioned officers sleep in others; also, the Colonel commanding Coast-defence Troops and medical officers sleep in them. 34. Will you tell us what the general demeanour of these men was whilst there? —There were about seven or eight very good and willing men, fourteen or fifteen most insubordinate and insulting in their language, and then there have been about twelve men that have been wellbehaved but who would not attempt any military work or drill. 35. When these lads were asked to do military work and they refused did they give any reasons? —Yes, they said it was against their conscience. 36. That was the universal excuse? —Yes. 37. I suppose you had no means of judging what their consciences were? —Only by inference. I inferred that the men were of pugnacious disposition, and their consciences were in bad company with their dispositions. 38. What has been your attitude towards these men?— When I received these men in detention I decided as to what course I would pursue. I thought, perhaps these lads may have been misled or have different views to mine, and I decided I would deal with them sympathetically and make conditions as easy as possible for them. I could have confined them in separate rooms; I did not do so, but put them in one large room where they could have more liberty in every way. I told them I, would make the drill as easy for them as possible. If they would not do physical drill I would offer them Swedish drill or Sandow exercises, such as deep breathing, &c. I said I would replace the physical drill by that. I said if they would not do the semaphore signalling I would give them the merchant code of signals, otherwise known as the International Code. I also offered to teach them the Morse telegraph, the use of telephones, and a little electricity— anything that would be useful to them afterwards. 39. Did they refuge to do these things?— Absolutely. 40. Hon. Mr. Callo-w.'] Did they say that that was also against their conscience? —Yes. 41. What work did you provide that was not against their conscience? —Cutting grass. There was not much good in that in June and July, but I did it to keep them employed. We had a water-supply for the infantry camp, and the pipes were lying on the ground burst, due to frost. I got authority to expend a certain sum of money in repairing that. They worked for about two days on that and then they refused. 42. They worked for two days? —Some of them. Some who had been working before refused afterwards. 43. Why? —I could not say. 44. Hon. Mr. Allen.] I gather that you were sympathetic towards them and offered them all kinds of work that in your opinion was not military?— Yes, I am sympathetic towards them now as far as that goes; I do not want to harass any man. 45. And did you try to help them in other ways?—ln every way that I could make the regulations easy for them without breaking through the spirit of the regulations. 46. Now, I want you to tell the Committee what the demeanour of these lads was : what was their language towards you and your staff?— Every day my staff have had to put up with insulting language. 47. Every day? —Yes, every day. 48. And to you too? —Yes, and Colonel Collins, Colonel Smith, and the police. 49. Insulting language to every one? —Yes. 50. Did you hear them say to Colonel Collins when he was leaving that he had better go back to the dogs that sent him? —Yes, I heard that said.

4—l. 7a.