G.—2.

79

K. P. TAMATI-O-BAUKAWA.J

Kahu Pukobo Tamati-o-Raukawa sworn and examined. (No. 27.) (C. W. P. Scon, sworn as Interpreter.) 1. Mr. Bell.] Do you know anything about a union which has been formed amongst the Maoris? —Yes. 2. What position do you hold in that union? —I was appointed president of that union. 3. Did you at one time live at Parihaka? —Yes. 4. Were you in a position of authority there? —Yes. 5. When did you cease to live at Parihaka? —In 1908. 6. Have you any land? —Yes. 7. Where is it?— Near Okiawa. 8. Is it leased?—lt is under the 1881 and 1892 Acts. 9. Is any of it in your possession?—A small portion, 40 acres. 10. Is the 40 acres held under occupation, license? —Yes. 11. How much rent do you pay for the 40 acres? —I was demanded by the Public Trust Agent to pay £5. 12. Mr. Zachariah: The witness has an occupation license for 80 acres, for which he pays £40 a year. 13. Mr. Bell.] Are you sure it is only 40 acres for which you have an occupation license? — Yes. 14. Are there any relatives living with you? —Yes. 15. Have you ever leased the 40 acres to a pakeha?—Yes, I did at one time. 16. Why did you lease to a pakeha?—Because I had not sufficient money. 17. For how long did you agree to lease it? —Of course, the Maori is ignorant, and he would not record the years that the term is for. I think it was about when the land was subdivided in 1908. 18. When did you get your land back?— The year before last. 19. Did you have to pay anything to the pakeha in order to get your land back? —Yes. 20. What have you done with this land? —I ploughed it and put turnips in it. 21. How did you get the money to sow the turnips?—By the brains of my children. 22. What did your children do?— Ploughing. 23. What did your children do in order to get the money?— They made hay for the Europeans, and they ploughed. They were working for the pakeha. 24. What did you do with the money you got for the turnips?— Part of the money was to pay back to the European what we had borrowed —that is, from the person whom we had leased it. 25. And what did you do with the rest of the money?— The balance was to purchase stock and cattle for my children. 26. Have you sold the turnips yet? —Yes, they are being eaten by the European's cattle. 27. Who was the pakeha to whom you leased ? —Patterson. 28. Does he hold any other land? —Yes. 29. Is Patterson a lessee of other land under the 1881 Act? —Yes. 30. Now, before Te Whiti and Tohu died, would there be many Natives who would . have been prepared to start and work as you have done?— When Te Whiti and Tohu died I started to work. 31. Are there many more like you who, since the death of Te Whiti and Tohu, are now turning round looking for work? —All of us, from Waitotara to Paraninihi. 32. Are there any Maoris in your locality who are anxious to work, but have no land?— Yes. 33. For what purpose was the union formed? —So that no one should go for anything outside what we combined for. From our parents and elders we had the idea of getting our lands back, and that we should make the application as one, and have the one idea in applying for our lands. 34. Are there any Maoris in your district who are working their land successfully?— Yes. 35. Did Te Whiti and Tohu encourage farming?— Their advice to us was not this modern farming, but the farming that would produce potatoes and sufficient grass for, say, one horse. 36. Since Te Whiti and Tohu died lias the method of farming altered?— Yes, when they died then we turned round and discovered what was the proper method of farming. 37. Do you remember going down to Wellington in 1909?— Yes. 38. Whom did you see?— Sir James Carroll. 39. Did any one go with you?— All the people representing the Maoris from Waitotara to Paraninihi accompanied me —we were all representatives. 40. Did you say to Sir James Carroll? —Yes. 41. What did you say?—l said " Timi, I have come to have the tears of my elders and myself wiped away that have beea caused by the Act of 1881." 42. What did Timi say?— There was a man in Court here yesterday (Dr. Fitchett) who spoke. He was with Mr. Carroll, Hie Public Trustee was with Mr. Carroll when he said " Yes, your tears shall be dried : the tears which were caused by the Act of 1881 shall be wiped dry by us." Dr. Fitchett was there and the header of the Opposition was there. 43. You told me about the pakeha having milked your cow dry : will you repeat to the Commission what you said to me? —The cow that 1 had was young when it was taken by another person. Having taken the fat from that cow, leaving nothing but the bones and skin in my paddock, I now wish to build it up again—to revive the flesh and blood. It is a simile I am giving as to the land—the lands have been reduced in value. I say that simile applies to the land, because the milk has now been taken from it, and the value of that cow is reduced. That is why I say the valuation should be reduced to under £5, to £4, or something like that.